I get a LOT of questions from my readers about basic shower construction. I understand that my readers don’t consider this stuff basic and there’s no problem with that. The problem is that I end up answering the same questions over and over and over… So, to save what very little is left of my sanity (which is a number roughly equivalent to absolute zero) I will cover some basic things here so I can simply reply ‘read this’.
If you’ve been channeled to this page by one of my smart-ass comments please take no offense to it, I’m here to help. Please understand that I currently have over 12,000 comments (questions) on this site (seriously) which I’ve answered – every one of them. I’m just trying to make your life (mine) easier. I will continue to answer every question I’m asked, I’m just super cool like that. 
If, after reading through this, you still have questions feel free to ask them in the comments below.
You can also download my shower waterproofing manual which should answer a lot of questions and cover basic techniques and methods you may be confused about. Go ahead, it’s free. So without further ado (doesn’t even look like a word, does it?) let’s get on with it. (For all my readers who feel the need to correct me: I KNOW it’s actually ‘adieu’ – I was being facetious. Thanks. 
)
Leaks
First and foremost – tile is not waterproof. Grout is not waterproof. Adding sealer to your tile or stone will not make it waterproof. Your shower should be completely waterproof before a box of tile is even opened! No matter which waterproofing method you choose, proper substrate preparation is the only thing that will make your shower waterproof.
If you have a leak in your shower – stop using it immediately if at all possible. If that is not possible (it’s your only shower) have the shower repaired – immediately. If you see water leaking it is likely not nearly as much water as you don’t see leaking into your wall cavity and structural framing. By the time you ‘see’ most leaks the framing is normally already considerably compromised.
No, there is nothing you can put over your tile to make your shower waterproof if you have a leak – not even sealer. A tile or stone sealer is made to make your tile and grout stain-resistant, not waterproof. It does this by sealing the pores of the tile and stone to slow (NOT STOP) the absorption of liquid and prevent staining. It only means you have more time to clean up the spilled red wine cherry kool-aid before it stains anything.
Substrates
Drywall is not an acceptable substrate for your shower unless you are using Schluter Kerdi waterproofing membrane – that’s it. Cement backerboards are the standard and there are also other products such as waterproofed, gypsum based boards like Denshield and waterproofed, foam-based sheets like wedi or kerdi board.
Cement backerboards are not waterproof. They are water stable, which simply means that they will not swell or disintegrate when exposed to moisture or water – they won’t change size. But they are just like your driveway, they will soak in water, hold water, and dry out, just like your driveway when it rains. If using backerboards there needs to be a waterproof membrane utilized as well.
Membranes
If you are using a topical waterproofing membrane such as a liquid like redgard or hydroban, or a sheet like kerdi, do not use a moisture or vapor barrier behind your substrate. If you have a vapor or moisture barrier behind your substrate do not use a topical membrane on the front of it. This combination creates two waterproof barriers with your substrate sandwiched between them. any vapor or moisture trapped between them has absolutely no way to dissipate. This is lovingly referred to as a ‘mold sandwich’. It is not tasty. Use either a moisture or vapor barrier behind your substrate or a topical membrane on the face of it. One or the other – never both.
With that said, if you want to use a topical liquid such as redgard on the seams of your backerboard, after you tape and mud them, you can do so without problems. If your moisture barrier and backerboards are properly installed there is no real reason to do so – but if it will help you sleep at night go ahead and do it.
If you are using a topical membrane and you have an exterior wall with either plastic facing or kraft paper facing you need to cut slits into that facing before installing your substrate. If you do not it will create the aforementioned mold sandwich. Give moisture or vapor somewhere to dissipate.
Shower-tub transitions
There should be a gap between your tub or acrylic shower base and the bottom of your backerboard. If you are using a traditional barrier waterproofing method you do not need to do anything with this gap. Do not fill it with silicone! This will trap moisture running down your barrier and it will have nowhere to go. If you are using a topical method you can fill it with silicone if you want. If you are using liquid you should fill it with silicone. This creates a waterproof plane between your membrane and the tub or base so water or moisture ends up in the drain rather than in your wall.
When you tile you can tile right over that gap. You should not fill this gap with thinset behind the tile – it will crack due to movement. Your wall and tub or base will expand and contract at different rates – it will crack any cement-based product you place between the two. This includes thinset as well as grout. You do not need a solid backing behind your tile over this gap – it should be less than 1″ wide. You shouldn’t normally be walking on that tile in that particular spot. Yes, it can just hang there.
Grout
If your grout is cracking it is due to movement 99.9% of the time. Type ‘cracking’ into the search box up there and you’ll find in-depth explanations for your viewing pleasure.
If you have white, or lighter than normal grout when you’re finished grouting it may be efflorescence. This is mainly due to minerals in the water being left on the surface of the grout when the water evaporates. It is usually indicative of either incorrectly mixed grout or using too much water while cleaning the grout – not wringing out your sponge enough. This is normally only on the surface of your grout. Scratch the very top layer of your grout in an inconspicuous spot with your fingernail. If you have the correct, or at least a darker, color beneath the surface that is the likely cause. The easiest, quickest fix, provided it is only the very top layer, is to get some drywall sanding sponges and go over the grout lines very lightly. Just like burnt toast – scrape it to the color you like.
Corners and changes-of-plane
Caulk.
Disagree with me?
Like any other website I get my fair share of people who disagree with my methods or techniques – it really doesn’t bother me. I am more than willing to have a civilized, intelligent conversation about anything tile related. If, however, you simply attack me personally and act like an uncivilized ass I will call you on it – and not in a nice way. I write this blog in a particular manner, it does not mean that I take my profession lightly – I most certainly do not. If I wanted to be a pompous bastard I currently have 19 letters I can place after my name – all tile related. But I’m not a pompous bastard – you can just call me Roger.
If you are a contractor with a customer who has come here for information and I’ve told them you’re wrong – realize that the extent of my knowledge of that particular project is limited to what I’m told by your customer. It does not mean that I am ‘out to get you’ or anything of the sort. I normally limit my replies to those situations by stating the current TCNA and/or ANSI standards pertaining to what I’m told. If you disagree – please let me know in a civil manner, If you’re correct I’ll back it up – I do this everyday, too! If you’re an asshole about it expect the same in return (It’s the comment by ‘Kanela’ with the bold print before it) – and please have a thesaurus handy to interpret my reply – I’m a very well educated asshole.
That’s it for now. I will likely add to this post on a regular basis. If there is anything I’ve caused confusion with please, for the love of God, let me know. I can change this page since, you know, it’s my website and all. If you have any questions at all please ask them below – I’ll answer, really.
Ellen… You missed Roger’s pun in parenthesis.
‘Farewell’
Hi Roger,
Thanks for the great tips. If and when I ever decide to start tiling, I’ll know what to do.
Also, you were correct in using “ado”. “Adieu” is French for goodbye.
Cheers.
Hi Roger,
just a question about tiling order. Is it OK to walk and stand on the 24 hour old top bed and/or curb stucco as well as use a ladder on the top bed to install ceiling tile? or should I tile and grout the floor and/or curb first and wait until fully cured? Also should I install the ceiling tile before starting the walls?
Mucho thanko
Hi Gary,
Tile it first, you can put the ladder on it the next day. I normally tile up to the last row, do the ceiling, then install the last row on the walls.
Thanks!
1. I will be using expoxy grout, my inclination would be to grout the floor and curb as well and then wait to put the ladder on it. I will make sure I will cover the floor to avoid cracking or messing up the floor tiles while I do the rest. But that epoxy stuff is expensive and the 3′ x 3′ floor will only use 25% of the batch, should I wait to grout the floor or grout now and scrap most of the epoxy…or also tile the ceiling and some wall to use the rest of the epoxy (using 2×4’s to spead the weight of me and the ladder across the freshly grouted floor tile or try to rig a support that will avoid putting weight on the ungrouted floor tile).
2. Any tips on tiling a floor with an existing non-center drain and make it look good? I am using 2×2 meshback on the ceiling and floor and 6×6 on the walls and was hoping to match the grout lines and also make the drain area mlook good.
3. I think it would hide the caulk line to have the floor tile go all the way to the backerboard and then have the wall tile come down close to the floor tile and then caulk (with drain holes?) but the cuts in the wall tile will show – what do you do? Is 1/8″ caulk line thick enough?
4. How do you deal with slight non-square situations on the walls, ceiling, or floor? In the past I have done full tiles at the top of a non-square wall with slight angle cuts to make the first row square and then worked down from there and have the cut tiles at the bottom. Is that OK? What do you do in these situations?
Thanks!
1. You can split the epoxy into different sized batches. Spectralock
2. The perimeter of your shower will still be level. The slope to the drain will vary depending on how far your drain is from that wall. To determine your mud bed perimeter height measure from the drain to the farthest corner and slope it 1/4″ / foot. Your perimeter will remain at that height.
3. Yes, 1/8″ is plenty. Cuts always show somewhere.
4. That is fine. I will draw a level line through the center of the wall and cut the tiles to the perimeter to whatever they need to be.
Roger, I have a motorhome with ceramic tile in the bathroom and kitchen. I want to take it up and put down 12 by 12 granite tile.I’m certain it has only plywood under the tile. What substrate should I put down and them what Ditra? So I use modified thinset.
Hi John,
I would put down another layer of 1/2″ ply, then ditra. Yes, use modified thinset.
Thanks Roger, The RV already has two layers of plywood under the tile. I am assuming that is the second layer you are suggestion. I should have told you this in the first post. I am also assuming that the modified thinset goes under the Ditra and the tile. I plan on using a 1/16″ grout line.
Yes, the second layer is fine. Yes, modified under the ditra.
Just want to make sure I have it right. Does modified thinset go under the tile also. Thanks so much for your patience.
I would use modified between the tile and ditra as well.
Rog,
want to order my book while your are lernin in FLA.
which one do I get if I plan mud/ pvc /mud base with some sort of cementious board on the wall – wonder/hardi etc – with redgard/hydoban topical membrane
is the traditional floor and wall manual?
Hi Matthew,
If you order the traditional wall and floor manual just shoot me an email and I’ll send you the topical liquid walls manual.
Hi Roger, love your website and your sense of humor. I have a customer whose shower I designed for handicap assessability. It’s been a little over 2 yrs. and the floor has a leak. I have replaced the grout twice. This could be insignificant, but worth a mention, showering this handicap person puts 400 lbs. on the shower floor. The shower floor is a wood sub floor with membrane and mortar bed. The membrane does not cover all four sides. There is an opening for the wheelchair therefore could not extend the membranes of the wall on all four sides. Thank you Roger for any advice you could offer.
Hi Jim,
Do you know the area it is leaking from? Is it at the corners of the entry, a back corner, where? Unless he’s walking in high heels (he may be, who knows?) the compressive strength of deck mud is more than enough to compensate.
I have a question about the plumbing involved with converting shower/tub to shower. Do you have any articles or info available for such as 1/12 drain to 2 inch conversion etc…any help would be appreciated.
Hi Trudi,
No, I don’t. I’m a tile guy, not a plumber.
Google Terry Love, he has a plumbing forum that is extremely helpful.
Let’s see if. I have this right… When using the Kerdi board on a exterior wall, you should not use a vapor barrier between the Kerdi board and studs. Basically it would be Kerdi board -> outside wall studs -> non faced fiberglass insulation between the studs. Correct? Same on a inside wall without the insulation.
When using a fiberglass pan (I know but it’s a drop in replacement) if the pan is attached to the studs, the Kerdi board should extend over the pan flange. How do you seal this to keep moisture from creeping between the flange and Kerdi board?
If it is not attached to the studs, butt the Kerdi board against the flange or leave a tiny gap and then seal it the same as you would for a bathtub ( per the Schluter video)?
Hi Bruce,
Yes on the kerdi-board and barrier. Interior and exterior walls. You place a bead of kerdi-fix (ideally) or silicone along the flange and sandwich it between the flange and kerdi-board. Yes on the incorrectly installed pan (if it is not attached to the studs it is installed incorrectly
).
Roger,
I would like to install 12 x 24 wall tiles on an interior wall, not in a wet area. My question is will the drywall alone support the tile/weight or would I have to put a cement backer board over the drywall?
Hi Becky,
You can go right over the drywall. It will be more than sufficient to support it.
I cannot express how much I have appreciated your manuals and website. I have a couple of additional questions:
– can I use modified thin set to fill in some low/pooling areas in my mortar shower pan? (1/8″ to 1/4″)
– Will Redgard adhere to the thin set as well as it would adhere to the mortar on the shower floor?
– If it is okay to use the thin set to even out the slope on the shower floor – how long do I need to wait to redgard over the newly installed thin set.
I don’t know what I would do without the floor elf! Thank you!
Sue
Hi Susan,
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes. 24 hours.
Hey, you’re easy.
Thank you!
Dear Roger,
I purchased your tile tip and “topical liquid walls” book and read a lot of the wonderful articles on your blog. I still have a few questions and will be grateful for your advise. I beg your pardon for the list .
For my existing floor, I have linolium over a 1/4 (maybe less) plywood (I think) and there is another layer of 1/2 inch plywood underneath.
1. I will be ripping off all the linolium. Do I need to rip off the 1/4 plywood as well? It’s hard to get the glue off that layer and it looks shinny (like a candy coat).
2. Could I use a cement board like hardiebacker on top of it? If so what thickness do you recommend?
3. I plan to use a 12×24 porcelain tile. Is the above sub floor good enough for this size?
4. I plan to use the same tile on my shower walls as well. Is this fine ?
5. What thinset do you recommend for the floor and the shower walls?
6. What trovel size is recommended? 1/4 inch?
7. Should I just back butter the tiles (bcos it’s large) ? Only put thinset on the floor ? Or do both ?
8. Is it ok to use 1/8 grout lines? I plan to match my grout to tile color.
9. Given it’s 12×24, do you recommend staggering the tiles on the walls (and the floors) or just setting them straight? Apart from aesthetics does staggering provide stability ?
10. THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH SIR! seriously, I got so much confidence to tackle the project myself due to your website. Thank you again. Regards,
Rajith
Hi Rajith,
1. Yes, that needs to go. I know it’s a pain, but it will not be stable enough to have a tile installation over it.
2. You need to have another layer of plywood over that 1/2″. A 1/2″ substrate (unless it is over another layer of at least 5/8″) is not enough for a tile installation. IF the layer you took the vinyl off of is flat enough you can go over that with the ply or 1/4″ backer (with thinset beneath it).
3. If built like I answered #2 – yes.
4. Yes
5. Laticrete 252, 253, Versabond, Mapei ultraflex 2. But any good modified thinset will work fine.
6. I would use at least a 5/16″, probably a 3/8″
7. Comb thinset on the floor and backbutter (skim) the back of the tile.
8. Yes, provided the tile consistency allows for that.
9. Purely aesthetic. Pattern lends no increased or diminished stability to an installation.
10. You’re welcome.
Thank you sooo much Roger. I really appreciate it!
Btw do you recommend using 24×24 inch tile on a wall (for around the shower) ?
I was originally planing to do 12×24 but saw this beautiful large tile (24×24) but worried that they are two heavy and might compromise stability given my lack of experience.
Thanks again!
Rajith
The 24 x 24 are fine. They weigh the same as two 12 x 24’s. One square foot of tile weighs the same whether it’s 12 x 12 or 48 x 48 – it’s still one square foot of tile on one square foot of wall.
Thanks Roger!!
We need help! We just purchased a home. Upon moving in we discovered that there was rotten subfloor in front of the shower. After tearing out the shower we discovered massive amounts of rot and damage. The shower (built in 1996) had been constructed using green board and tile directly on top. The half wall was so rotted it just fell apart. the studs are rotten (on an exterior load bearing wall), and there were issues with the tub as well so we are now in a total redo of the bathroom and feel a little over our heads. We will be completely reconstructing the shower (we are using the Kerdi shower system), sistering the studs, rebuilding the half wall and installing a new tub. Here is my first major question: We purchased a soaker tub to replace the original jacuzzi tub. It will be installed in an alcove. There is a full wall on the back end of the tub, a full wall with window on the left side of the tub, the rebuilt half wall at the front of the tub and an apron on the right side of the tub. There is a tub flange on the top for the 3 alcove walls (which I understand how to tile), but the tub flange then curves and continues all the way down both sides of the apron. the tub flange extends out 2″. My problem is, the back end wall and the half wall are both only 45 1/2″ wide. The tub (including the 2″ flange) is 44″ wide . (The tub from the wall to the apron itself is only 42″). Since the walls are only 45 1/2″ This leaves me with 1 1/2″ of drywall on the front side of the tub (after the flange). I understand I am supposed to leave a 1/2″ gap between the drywall and the tub flange and then extend the tile over the flange, but how do I get tile to adhere to only 1″ of drywall and remain stable over the 2″ flange? (I have pictures of the tub and wall if my explanation doesn’t make sense). I cannot return the tub at this point and I cannot build out the back wall to be wider (we could build out the half wall out a little bit, but we would be affecting a walkway to the closet). We are just overwhelmed (and frankly running out of money). We would appreciate any advice!
Hi Bridget,
Who told you that you need 1/2″ between the drywall and flange? You don’t. In fact, if the flange is inset into the wall the backer should go over it. If it is not inset use a piece that butts directly to the flange – 1 1/2″.
Converting bathtub to shower. 2nd floor bathroom is 1976 installed bathtub. Over time it has leaked and the subfloor has large buckle where the rafter has twisted, foundation has been done, but the “repairs” 22 pilings placed throughout the home only corrected a few problems. I have wanted to take a sledge hammer to the bathtub just to get it out of the house, demolish the white lumpy tile 4×4 and remove all fittings and see what is left of the subfloor. Today I removed the vinyl tile and the 1/4 in. wood board and found the toilet has rusted bolts caused subfloor to be even worse. The bulge is about 4 feet from bathtub (25 sq ft ) with tub and toilet/vanity in place. I have done countless tile jobs inside and out, kitchen floors, pool surrounds and even my garage/wood shop is tiled with mosaics of power and hand tools. I done kitchen counters, bars bath vanitys, plumbing sinks, toilets etc, but never a shower. Is this a job for A super DIY person or should I throw in the towel and a let the (if I could find one) pros come in. At least all my work I know who to blame if it fails, but these guys always sweet talk me and then do a shitty job????
Definitely hmmm ? I can handle your answer and will appreciate it.
Hi Shanon,
You can definitely do it! It’s not really a difficult process, it’s just getting the method that you want to use decided and figuring out how to do that correctly. You can start with this and go from there: Waterproofing methods for showers
Having an issue with brand new house, stand up shower with bench leaking from 3rd floor onto 2nd floor ceiling. Narrowed it down to when shower is pointed at the entrance/curb and found several cracks in the grout along the underside of the top tile layer and also down the corner. The builder has opted to cover the cracked grout with sealer (silicone or acrylic caulk).
I know this won’t hold for long, and have expressed an interest in ripping out the entire floor to make sure the liner actually goes over the curb as it should not leak when the grout is cracked. He has agreed after a water test on the current setup if I’m not happy to redo the job. (Maybe counting on that I won’t be so eager to rip up the new house if it’s not currently leaking?)
My question is what should it look like if done right as I will have an opportunity to watch this as it happens. I suspect we’ll have to rip out the bottom and sides of the shower until we find the fiber board and make sure the liner extends out all sides UN-punctured by nails/screws up behind the fiber board. Or can there be a gap between the board and liner as long as it extends 3″ above the pan/bottom? I have one sideways picture taken during the construction, and it appears the board behind the tile is green (guessing fiber board) and the liner is black plastic extending to just 1″ below the fiber board and missing on part of the entrance where I see visible 2×4. I have no clear shot of the curb however, and don’t know what was done after the picture if they were not finished.
Hi Steve,
Your shower is jacked.
Sorry. If the board is green it is LIKELY just greenboard (drywall with a green paper face) which is NOT approved for use in wet areas. The liner (pvc or cpe – both rubber-like, not plastic) should extend up behind the substrate board a minimum of three inches above the finished height of the curb, the substrate should extend down to no more than 1/2″ ABOVE the FLOOR MUD, not the liner. The curb should be wrapped with the only penetrations through the liner being on the outside of the curb, and no penetrations anywhere inside below the three inch above curb height. The curb should also have dam corners (pre-formed corners) for the ends of the curb, although they are not required.
If you read through this five part series it explains the proper building of a shower floor. How to create a shower floor for tile
Thanks for the prompt reply. I’ve requested that we rip the shower out and re-do it correctly. By mentioning the liner height and substrate should be hanging over the liner I think helped convince the builder he’s going to have to do this one right. Also, i started video taping the issues… just in case i need the evidence later.
On a side note, I think the green board in the picture I have may not have been the final finish; from the hole they made on the other side of the shower in the bedroom I can feel the liner at the bottom, then a rigid/fiberous hardiboard type material then the sheetrock further up knee/waste level. However, the substrate that I can feel is visibly wet/moist all the way up 1″ above the liner before it’s dry again and the shower hasn’t been used in a few days.
Again, thanks for the info… I had watched so many ‘how to’ videos but I just wanted to confirm that the liner should indeed go behind the substrate and the substrate should not touch the pan floor (soaking water up). I highly suspect when this shower is ripped out that I will find nails through the liner holding it to the curb.
You a-Do know what adieu translates to, correct? Adieu is what you would like to say to bymany of us
I looked at your information on waterproofing walls and floors for installing a shower and tiling the floor and walls. I was wondering how thick the pre-slope and the deck mud should be, and if you have any tips on how to get it sloped so it drains correctly. Thank you.
Hi Steve,
Read through this five part series, it will answer the questions you have as well as ones you don’t even know you have.
Building a shower floor
we have gutted and reconstructed our master bath. we have put 1/4″ hardiboard on the entire floor as we will be putting porcelain tile down. We have also installed a fiberglass shower pan down on the hardiboard. the hardiboard has a layer of thinset mortar (premix kind) below it and we also set the shower pan in a layer of this material. we have durock on the stud walls within the shower pan area and regular drywall on all other wall surfaces. we have already purchased a glass shower enclosure (two glass wall). my questions: the premix thinset mortar is acceptable to use right? I will be crushed if it isn’t and too late now! Secondly, the walls in the shower area need to be plumb for the glass enslosure installation however they are not exactly plumb at the moment. will we be able to correct this with tiling the walls? We put the durock over the shower pan lip but not all the way to the threshold. I appreciate your time. Thank you
p.s – I posted this same message to you on facebook…..
Hi Judy,
NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT! The premixed ‘mortar’ is not acceptable. It is not mortar at all, it’s just mastic with sand in it, no matter what they call it on the bucket. Use powdered thinset you mix with water.
Great, now I just read the rest of your post. Well, being as it’s now too late I guess you can flip a coin and hope it lasts. Sorry, I know that isn’t what you wanted to hear. Yes, you can plumb the walls with the tile, but it depends on how far out it is as to whether or not it will work for your application.
Roger,
Thanks for the informative website and helpful manuals! A few tile questions for you:
– where tiles meet inside corners (at tile to substrate conditions), do you hold the tile 1/16 away from the adjacent wall to allow for expansion?
– at tile to tile conditions in inside corners, what size should the caulk joint be? 1/16″ again?
– when placing the weep holes at the left and right walls, do you use anything to take up the 1″ space and temporarily hold the void? Or do you caulk the full length and go back to remove caulk from those spots?
Thanks,
Kevin
Hi Kevin,
1. Yes, 1/16″ – 1/8″.
2. Yes, same answer.
3. I just stop the silicone, then begin again an inch or so later. You can place something in there temporarily, though, if it would be easier.
As a ROOKIE working with tile and especially in a shower, I have found your wisdom and wit very helpful. I have been called a smartass most of my life but it’s just in my blood. I will let you know, er” via my girlfriend, how things turn out. Wish me luck!!
Hi FloorElf!
I wanted to run a question by you regarding a redgard shower installation I am doing. I used Hardibacker on the walls, 3 2×4’s with cement board for the curb, and a shower pan poured with type S mortar, highly compacted and having excellent slope to a 2-piece drain.
I then put two layers of redgard everywhere, and an additional layer on the shower pan and wall up to about 6″. I used fiberglass tape at the seams where the walls and curb meet the pan, and also where the pan meets the drain. The redgard goes all the way up to the weep holes but doesn’t cover any of them.
I did a leak test and didn’t see any evidence of leaking at all, so I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t leak or have any issues.
I proceeded to install 2″ travertine tiles, the ones backed by mesh. This is where the fun begins: I was having a hard time getting one of the tiles level with its neighbors, so I took a cutter and started to cut the tile out of the mesh!
I caught myself about a second and a half into the cutting and threw the cutter about 5 feet in reflex when I realized I was probably going through the redgard. I’m guessing the incision into the membrane is no more than 2″, if there is actually one.
Now I’m deliberating on whether or not I should tear out the tiles and do the shower floor over again, or if any leak would be too miniscule to matter. My gut says to tear it out, which would probably be easy as I can cut the redgard around the perimeter walls and just peel up the whole thing by getting between the redgard and the pan. The tiles would be junk of course. I don’t have the tiles on the wall above the floor installed yet, so redoing the redgard on the pan would be a simple matter.
What do you think?
thanks
Jason
Hi Jason,
If your redgard is properly installed you would not be able to simply peel it up. If you could something was done incorrectly.
Remove those two tiles, and the ones around it, then paint more redgard over your incision. Provided you have it overlapped about two inches it will be completely waterproof.
Thanks Roger.. Any tips on getting the thinset up without further damaging the redgard?
It’s impossible. It should be bonded to it chemically, which means it’s molecularly a layer of the redgard now. You may be able to sheer it off with a plastic putty knife enough to be almost flush.
I’ve searched and the fact that I haven’t found the answer probably IS the answer but I’m going to ask anyhow.
What i have is a tiny shower – maybe 30″ x 30″. It looks to be a nice enough tile job. What I would like to do is knockdown the wall opposite the shower head and extend the shower another 30″ to be a 30″ x 60″ shower. So I’m leaving the wall with the fixtures, the back wall, the drain and the front curb intact. Is there any way I can tie into the previous work? and make this watertight?
No, no idea how it was done.
Thanks for the help.
Hi Marley,
Only if your current shower is done with a topical waterproofing. If it is waterproofed in the traditional method there is no way to tie new waterproofing into it without removing at least a foot of the wall and about two feet of the floor to tie the new stuff into the old. If it is topical you just need to remove back to the membrane and tie the new stuff right into the old, getting into the substrate is not necessary.
Roger-
I have found your website very useful during my shower pan installation. However, I have run into a problem that I was hoping you can help me with. Originally my shower drain height was set for a specific tile. I installed that tile and didn’t like it so I removed it. My wife is now set on going with a thinner tile, which would cause my drain to be higher than my tile. I would say 1/16-1/8″. I also have gashes and small holes in the concrete base from the demo of the original tile. How should I go about raising my floor to the needed height to ensure my tile is at least the height of the drain? Do I just use a self leveling mix? I want to ensure a good bond with the original base.
Hi Tracy,
You can float a layer of thinset over the existing base and let it cure, then install the tile. With that height difference it won’t be a problem. Do not use slc, it will level your floor – it needs to be sloped.
Thanks Roger-
One more question. I have a window in the shower that has flashing tape extending 4-6″ into the shower on the framing. When I add the hardie backer to this area, do I also add the regard? I read you don’t add regard when there is a moisture barrier underneath the substrate.
Thanks.
Hi Tracy,
Yes, redgard as well. The flashing doesn’t count.
First, I must say your site is a wealth of information. Glad we found it just as we had to rebuild our shower!
One question that I have not found an answer for – install the (shower) floor tile first then the wall tile OR wall tile first then floor tile?
The floor tile is little pieces (3/4 “) in sheets and the wall tile is large (12″ x 24”).
Thanks.
Hi Ken,
I prefer, as do most I’ve spoken with, the floor tile first, then the wall tile over it covering the edges. However, it’s purely a personal choice – it’s aesthetic. Provided your shower is properly waterproofed it makes no difference at all what order the tile is installed.
Dear Roger Elf
I can’t find my previous post asking about the stuff in the silent (for me) SCHLUTER video that they set the round tropical drain with. You mentioned you’d not watched it in 20 yrs. so didn’t remember. So… What do YOU use to set it in with? I am doing Durock walls set in mud over skim of thinset between mud preslope and base that is the concrete slab.
Thanks immensely
Hi L,
I put down deck mud, butter the back of the drain with thick thinset, then push it down into the loose mud. This packs the mud and bonds the drain to it at the same time.
Roger,
I have beautiful granite countertops. The problem is that the same granite serves as my backsplash. It is just too much. Too busy. I want to tile over the granite, which is one inch thick. Can I use the granite as my substrate for the Class 1 12 x 12 porcelain mini subway tiles that I would like to put up? Since I am a novice, I am hoping that a substrate is the pro word for backerboard. Excuse my ignorance on this topic. I don’t want to botch this up. Thanks for you time!
Hi Dfetta,
You can if you scarify the surface of the granite by removing the ‘shiny’ surface, but it would likely be easier to just remove the granite splash and install directly on the drywall. Yes, substrate is just a fancy word for backerboard.