Tile FAQ’s
The list below contains some of the most commonly asked questions I get about tile and installation methods. For each one I have included a (very) short answer. I already have, or will have in the future, a post about every one of these. If that post already exists there will be a link at the end of the answer.
I will continue to add to this page as the questions come up. If you have a question just leave a comment at the bottom and I’ll include it on this page.
Just click on the question to view the answer.
Grout
▶ What type of grout should I use for my tile?
▶ How large should my grout lines be?
▶ Can I fill my cracking grout with more grout?
▶ Are there any “magic” products available to remove stains from your grout and tile?
▶ Does grout help stabilize tile, hold them in place, or make them stick better?
▶ Are tile, stone or grout waterproof?
▶ Can I install my tile without grout lines?
Miscellaneous
▶ Can I install floor tiles on my shower walls?
Sealers
▶ Will sealing your tile and grout make it waterproof?
▶ Should I seal (or re-seal) my tile and grout?
Setting Materials
▶ What should I use to set my tile?
▶ Are mastic and pre-mixed “mortar” acceptable to install tile on a floor or in a shower?
Substrates
▶ Does my floor have to be level before I install tile?
▶ Do I need a waterproof membrane for my shower walls?
▶ Can I simply stick tile to the drywall in my shower or the plywood on my floor?
Transitions
▶ Should I use grout or caulk in the corners of my shower?
If you have any suggestions or questions please feel free to leave a comment.
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← Previous Comments
Roger,
I came across this site and i think it is fantastic. I have a question on using Ditra and I am hoping you can help.
I plan to put 12×12 travertine tile in my bathroom and purchased Ditra for the underlayment. In reading the instructions, I see that the I’m supposed to have a double layer wood subfloor. Currently, I have 3/4″ OSB and a 3/16″ plywood (the floor used to be covered in linoleum).
Is this good enough? Ditra suggests a 3/8″ thinkness for the plywood. If no, can I put another layer of 3/16″ plywood on top before the ditra? Or is there another solution?
Thanks in advance!
Mario
Hi Mario,
The 3/16″ plywood you are referring to is actually a product called luan – it has no place beneath a tile installation. Luan is a very thin, NOT very dense plywood and has a tendency to compress in areas of traffic patterns. Fine for linoleum – not so good for tile. It may lead to voids beneath your tile.
The 3/16″ layer needs to be removed. You can then install a layer of 5/8″ plywood, then install your ditra. If you leave the luan there you may have problems down the road. Natural stone – travertine especially since it is not real dense and fairly fragile to movement, needs a very solid floor.
Very helpful! Thank you. One follow up – I have heard of using hardibacker as an underlayment for ditra.
Could I pull up the luan and put down 1/4″ hardibacker (would I need to thinset it to the subfloor or tape & thinset the joints?) instead of 5/8″ plywood? I would like to minimize the thickness of the new floor and if I could save the 3/8″ using hardibacker, I would. Otherwise, I’d just go with the plywood as you suggest.
Thanks again!
Sorry Mario, hardi or any cement backerboard isn’t strong enough to stiffen the floor. Backerboard adds no deflection properties to your substrate – it is simply a viable substrate to attach tile to. You can use 1/4″ plywood if you use DitraXL – the XL is about 1/4″ thick but it can be used over a less thick floor. It’ll only save you 1/8″ so it may not be worth the effort or price.
Sorry I’m not giving you the answers you want.
Not the answer I hoped for, but an answer I’ll be very thankful for as I won’t be cursing the cracked tiles on my floor in a year.
Thanks very much for the tips and the quick response – it is much appreciated!
Hi Roger-
Thanks again for giving your time to this website. After a few months of prep work I am getting ready to install tile in my bathroom. I have a couple questions:
1. My tub surround will be tiled with 3X5 wavy edge subway tiles. I would like a 1/8″ grout line. How do I use spacers with the wavy edges? I was thiking I would snap a line and set two rows at one time straddling my straight line. DOes that sound correct?
2. What size trowel would you recommend? I was thinking 1/4″ v notch.
3. I have installed redgard on the walls. If I were to use a ledger board to set my first row I would then be making holes in my membrane. Is that the correct method?
Thank You- your website has been an invaluable resource.
Mike
Hey Mike,
Normally any tile with an unusual design or edge, like wavy, will have all the corners the same size. All the corners should be consistently sized so just stack them with your spacers on the corners. If they do not have that then yes, draw level lines two courses wide and adjust as you go.
1/4″ v-notch will work if your substrate is absolutely flat. If not a 1/4″ U-notch or 3/8″ v-notch would be better. It would probably be better anyway.
I normally draw a level line one tile height up from the lowest spot on the tub or shower base and install the first row of tile to is. After that is in everything stacked above it should remain level. If you want to start with ledger boards then yes, you’ll be making holes in the membrane. After that row is set, however, you can simply apply more redgard to the holes. Easier to do with redgard than with kerdi.
Hi there,
I am so happy i came across your site because i am quite confused. I am renovating a new york city bathroom ( approx. 8 x 10 ft) I recently purchased tile for my tub/shower walls from home depot. They are 17 x 26 in porcelain tile and were described as floor/ wall tile. I did not take into account the weight of this large tile or the fact that my walls might be sheet rock. Are these tiles too big and heavy for the shower walls? I am concerned because the tile will be going all the way up to ceiling ( so about 7-8 ft) and I don’t want to take a chance of the tiles falling, along with worries of cracking or causing leaks. If you do think these tiles are not a good idea, do you have any recommendations on what size would be best, considering the fact that I do want to use a somewhat large tile in the space. I have gotten so many differing opinions and now, have no idea what to do. Unfortunately, i absolutely love the look of the tile and it only comes in the 17 x 26 in or 13 x 13. Thanks for your time and anxiously awaiting your opinion.
Marie
Hey Marie,
If you like the look of the tile then keep ‘em. It’s not gonna matter whether you put 1×1 mosaics or 24×24 porcelain on your wall. The thing to be concerned with is shear. More precisely the shear capability of a given wall. a square inch of tile on the wall pulls *down* on only one square inch of the wall – not out on it. The entire wall will be well supported inch for inch. On a different application, such as tile on a ceiling, the entire weight of the tile would pull down on the substrate as well but the entire weight of all the tile pulls on the entire ceiling at once – the wall only does it inch for inch.
I read once that a single drywall screw can support 90lbs. of weight on a vertical wall before giving way. Don’t know how accurate that actually is but it sounds and feels reasonable to me. This means that a single piece of drywall with one screw can support about 13 square feet of GRANITE before giving way. Your wall will support it just fine, unless it’s made of paper mache, of course.
Or, for the technically challenged, say your large tile weighs ten lbs. and your small ones weigh four lbs. If your large tile weighs ten pounds then it comes in at .0226 lbs/square inch. This tile covers 442 square inches. Each 13 x 13 is four lbs which translates to .023lbs / square inch. a 17 x 26 inch tile will weigh the same as a 13 x 13 inch piece of the same tile in the same area of coverage. It would take 2.6 of the smaller tiles to cover the same amount of area as the large tile. This means in the same amount of space the large tiles would have ten lbs, the small ones would have … wait for it – 10.4 lbs. It is likely very comparable to that. Either way your only talking about a difference of .003 lb./square inch.
Either one would add the same amount of weight to the wall. Really. (Was that better than all the other answers?
)
Roger,
I am ready to start tiling my shower walls this week and I have a couple more questions. First, should the first row of tile (bottom) be installed and left to set so it can suppour the weight of the tile above? I am installing 13 x 20 tile. If so how many rows can I go at a time? Also what would be the best tool to cut the tile? A wet saw or a diamond cutter type of tile saw. Thanks
Hey John,
If you have the time it is easier to have the first course set nice and level to support the rest of your installation and give you a sturdy, level starting point. You can, however, simply support the bottom row of tile with hard spacers or wedges and continue to install. As long as you use hard spacers (not the rubber kind that will compress) you can go bottom to top all at once.
With tiles that size it would likely be best to use a wet saw. The snappers take practice and those are hardly the size and type of tile to learn with.
Mornin’ Rog’!
Assuming that you TYPE of experience….your dog must look like hell!! Anyway…
Dilemma as follows:
Creating a couple medallions on my bath floor, because I’m far too artful to just throw down a mat, but, I haven’t found the dark tile that I would like to use to frame it out. Can I do the medallions, leave a framing space around them, continue on with the field tile, and go back & place the framing tile when I find it?? Confused about weather or not I can add onto a tile floor after it has already cured.
Hugs,’
Lori
Hey Lori,
As a matter of fact my dog does look like hell.
You can leave spaces empty to fill in tile at a later time if need be. You will need to be careful with the edges of the tile you have installed and not chip or crack them. Just make sure you get all the thinset off the edge of those tiles as well as whatever substrate you have beneath it so you have a full, empty clean space for your tile when you do find it.
Roger,
Fantastic site! My husband and I are installing a tile surround and hearth for our fireplace. We went with 12 inch torreon stone for the hearth and a onyx diamond mosaic tile which is about an inch in height and about a 1/2 inch in width (in other words, very small) for the surround. We are trimming out the mosaic tile with a thin dome liner in the torreon stone. We are having trouble with the onyx mosaic tile. The mosaic tile comes with a jagged edge from the diamond shape of the tile. We need it to be straight to go up against the liner for a clean finished look. My husband attempted to cut the jagged pieces off but the tiles kept breaking into small pieces. Since he cut it with a wet saw, the mesh backing became wet and tiles just started falling off the mesh backing. Do you have any recommendation for cutting the onyx mosaic tile or is it just a lost cause? Painter’s tape didn’t seem to help either. Have you heard of mosaic tape and is that something that would work? The torreon cut much more easily with cleaner lines. I thought maybe we could fill in the jagged edges with half diamonds cut from the torreon stone. It is similar in color and would not stand out if we did that. What would you do? I would love and appreciate any advice you have to give.
Thanks so much for your time.
My best,
Elizabeth
Hey Elizabeth,
Get some clear contact paper and place it on the face of a full 1′ x 1′ mosaic sheet. You also want to create a ‘zero clearance’ insert or base for the wet saw. This can simply be a regular 12×12 tile which has a cut through it. What you are trying to accomplish is to have a solid backing material beneath the mosaic as you run it through the saw. There won’t be any space on either side of the blade for the mosaics to chip off into – KnowWhatIMean? As long as the little pieces are fully supported they shouldn’t chip too badly, if at all.
Then, when you cut through the mosaic, cut through the middle of the sheet rather than trying to just cut the little sides off of each mosaic. This accomplishes two things – it will give you a clean edge on not just one side, but two. The mosaic can then be fitted back together side to side. Cutting through the middle of the mosaic sheet will give you two straight sides and the contact paper will hold the sheet together. Peel off the contact paper only after the mosaic is up and the thinset is fully cured. That glue on the mosaic webbing is often water-soluble, that’s why it’s falling apart.
I hate that.
NOTE: The comment below was posted with (of course) an incorrect or incomplete email address. I attempted to reply via email but, you know, when someone wants to attack and run and hide I really don’t have time to go searching. My reply below is what I attempted to email, apparently he didn’t want a discussion.
Dear Roger,
Before you make an argant and judgmental comment about somebody’s work over the internet befre you actually saw it, you should be aware that you cause hours on dicussions , debates and disputes – being all smart over the inter is very easy and sound competent without really being invovled in the project.
I am really disappointment with this website and they way you easly dispence your sound advices. If you are so knowledgable won’t you be busy with work instead of blabing over the internet?!
Hi There Kanella,
Kind of strange, that comment. You obviously feel thwarted in some manner. If it is because of some form of advice I gave one of my readers then it likely means that you either don’t know what the hell you’re doing or are purposely taking advantage of someone trusting you with their installation. In either case please let me be clear about how I feel about people who do that: Go fuck yourself.
Do not presume to know a thing about me, because you don’t. If you are upset about advice I’ve given someone and feel that I’m incorrect in my assumptions, by all means start a civil, calm, intelligent discussion with me about it and we may be able to resolve it. The manner in which you’ve simply attacked me and my character on my blog smacks of grade-school adolescence, as does your propensity to absolutely murder the English language and proper grammar.
I know exactly what I cause – if something is being done incorrectly it should cause hours of discussion. If I was misinformed by whomever you happen to be having these discussions with then perhaps you should attempt to verify and/or correct false information rather than simply assuming I’m out to get you. I really couldn’t give two shits about how disappointed you are with my website – it isn’t created for people who claim to be professionals – it’s created for whomever you happen to be doing incorrect work. I can only go by what is described to me without, as you’ve stated, being involved in the project. If that is incorrect, perhaps you should have attempted to correct the erroneous information rather than simply attacking like an immature child.
I am busy with work, Kanella, very, busy. That’s why you are just now receiving a reply to your ridiculous rant. I do not ‘easly (sic) dispence (sic) my sound advices (sic)’ without knowing or researching what I am stating. But you’re not going to believe any of that anyway so I won’t waste my time. I do not know (nor do I really care) what comment or piece of advice you may be so disturbed about since you were vague to the point of simply attacking without reference, so I will simply assume you happen to be one of the jackasses taking advantage of people uneducated in proper tile installation procedures – to which I say stop it. I really can’t stand people who run my profession down and claim to be a ‘professional’ because they own a bucket and trowel. If you honestly do love this profession then get educated – if you’re simply in it for the paycheck then go flip burgers, at least you won’t be destroying people’s homes.
I will take a wild guess here – you’re the fucktard that installed tile over radiant floor heat with mastic, aren’tcha?
Gotta go ‘be smart all over the inter’ now. Have a nice day.
Mornin’ Rog’!
How do you rate Aquaban for waterproofing shower walls? What do you use?
Thanx,
Lo
Hi Lori,
Dunno, never heard of it.
Aquadefense by Mapei is good stuff, is that what you mean?
Sorry, I missed the second part of your question. I use mostly kerdi to waterproof my showers. When I use a liquid membrane it’s usually 9235 or Hydroban by Laticrete.
That’s the stuff! Hydroban by Laticrete. That’s what I meant.
Thanx Rog’!
Lori
Hi there,
I am building a shower with an acrylic base and am using deshield for the walls. The shower is going to have a framed in shower bench covered in deshield as well. I used fiber glass tape mudding with thinset on all of the screws, seems and corners. My question is Do I need to do anything special to waterproof the shower bench. The Bench is sloped down away from the wall and I am going to RedGard the whole thing as well unless I should be doing something else?
What are your thoughts?
Hey Dan,
If you taped and mudded the seams and plan on redgarding everything you’ll be just fine. I would also redgard the seams if you didn’t use silicone between the individual sheets or penetrations. (Or did you mean you’re redgarding the entire shower?)
We just installed the entire main level with travertine. I think we did good. There is a couple of places where there is some lippage. Is it best to sand the whole floor ? May I also ask how you would do this project. Opps thought of another question. We have never found a great way to get that high gloss shine on the tiles. We have rented buffer machine and all the other nonsense people have suggested, but none of it worked or lasted. I get the feeling they want to keep it a secret so I have to pay someone two or three thousand to do it. lol thanks, Cindee
Hi Cindee,
Sanding the whole floor is something that takes knowledge and a hell of a lot of skill, not saying you can’t do it, just want you to know that it’s a very specialized technique to end up with a completely flat, perfectly level plane on your tile. If done incorrectly you may end up with dips and swirls. There are a couple of ways to get a high shine on travertine – the first, of course, would be to install shiny travertine.
The second most common would be a gloss stone sealer. These are topical sealers and will wear over time. With topical sealers when they do wear out and need recoated you need to strip the entire floor first.
The best option is to have it professionally finished. It’s not a big secret but it is a very specialized skill. It entails sanding the entire floor with increasingly higher grits of sandpaper and polishing compound. Everything I mentioned that could go wrong with sanding the floor applies here – except it’s worse because your floor is shiny. It will enhance the screw-ups exponentially. I’ve seen floors that have been screwed up – believe me, it’s worth every penny to pay someone to do it.
Sorry, didn’t mean to be a downer.
I guess I want to believe there isn’t anything I can’t do myself. My kids and I have put on a news roof, a sidewalk, sheet rocked the whole house, sanded the hardwood floors, etc. I knew the tile would be much more difficult then hardwood for the reasons you stated. But I thought with the right equipment and somewhat getting the hang of it with maybe with a higher grit. The gloss stone sealer was not glossy. I have already stripped the floor and started over. We did use the polishing compound, but maybe you have to use alot. I saw that some people were using water when they sanded. Our first time we did not. It is not that I am being cheap. But here in Phoenix, it’s either get a bad job or pay dearly. I don’t like either choice. Thank you, Cindee
Hey Rog,
I’m creating my own medallions on the floor in my bathroom. The tile I’m using is interlocking tumbled marble irregular flat pebble tile with a mesh backing. (that’s alot for even me to say all at once.) Needless to say….it’s gorgeous! What’s the best way to get a nice straight edge on this tile where it meets the field tile???? I bought a wet saw for this (my bathroom project), a rolling glass cutter & I have nippers so, I should have everything I need. The grout lines are so large between some of the pieces of marble in this tile that I want to make sure to not chip the edges when I cut it. I thought about laying a straight edge down along it & using the wet saw but I want to be sure….$11 per square!!
Thanx Rog!!
Lori
Hi Lori,
Get yourself some three or four inch blue painters tape and tape across where you need to cut (so the middle of the tape is where you want to cut) and cut them on your wet saw. It will hold the mosaic together, you can get a nice straight line and it will help prevent chipped edges as you cut.
Hi Rog’.
When placing your tile, is it better to ‘place & twist’ or ‘place & push’?
Lori
Hi Lori,
Comb your thinset all in one direction and when you place the tile push it down and against (perpendicular) the lines, then pull it back. This flattens the ridges, eliminates trapped air and ensures full coverage beneath your tile.
Just want to say, I love your candor & wit. Gotta love this site. We used your niche information & Kerdi. Thanks! This site helped alot. (Of course it created alot of work) & wished I’d read it before installing pain in the butt hardibacker board.
After we grout, when can we set the toilet? We just cut a square around the toilet, will this be ok? This is our only bath & my husband waited until the last min before he leaves so 24 hrs is not in our time scheme.
Oh yeah, They didn’t have the round shower membrane. How do we seal the shower nozzle, handle & tub spout?
You can silicone around the nozzles and plumbing. Just get a seal from the kerdi to the plumbing.
Hey Annette,
Ideally you would wait 24 hours after you grout to set the toilet. Realistically you can set it right after you grout – just be careful with the grout lines. As long as the toilet covers the square you’ve cut out it will be fine.
hi,
I have a Saltillo tile floor that was sealed. It has a lot of wear and tear marks on the sealer. Is there any way to clean this? Do you know how to get the sealer off so I can reseal it. I tried using a steamer and it did take the coat of sealer off and the floor looked brand new again but……that would take forever to get all the sealer off. Is there a better way? Would sanding it with an orbital sander work? Please help. Thank you.
Rob
Hey Rob,
The ‘sealer’ on top of your tile is likely only a finish (synthetic liquid or paste waxes). It essentially places a layer of protectant over the top of the surface of your sealer. If it was installed correctly it will also have an impregnating sealer beneath the topical – this actually seals the pores in the saltillo before the coating is on. The coating on top is likely simply wearing and must be replaced or refinished. Depending on what type of product you have on top you may need to strip the entire floor before refinishing. Removing it is also dependent upon the specific type you have there. Try using an orbital buffer on it to see if that will shine it up. If so it’s likely just a wax. You can simply re-wax the floor. If you use an orbital sander on it you will actually damage the surface of the tile.
I hate saltillo.
Hi Roger!
I cannot find any info on how to transition from tile to a painted wall. Do you have to use trim pieces to finish off edges? We are remodelling a bath & we completely gutted it. I’d like to tile a backsplash above my vanity with linear glass tile on mesh backing. Do you have to trim out that free edge or do you just clean it up? Don’t trust home store people.
Thanx!
Lo
Hi Lori,
I don’t trust home store people either.
You can do whatever you think looks good. If you just want to leave the edge of the glass and clean it up that’s fine. If you want to cap it with a different tile trim piece or use a metal finish edge like Schluter – that’s fine too. No real wrong way to do it, whatever you like is correct. Do keep in mind with whatever you choose how easily it will clean up and how much dust it’s gonna catch. Just general considerations.
Roger,
I just taped and mudded my shower stall yesterday (durarock) and I’m not happy with how some of it came out. I have a couple of high spots that I think I can deal with but there are more spots that I did not use enough thinset on. Can I go back and do some thinset rework. Also can the thinset be mixed just a little thinner so it spreads better on the wall. I had a lot of trouble with this on the first coat. Thanks for all your help! This is my first time tiling anything and I want it to come out good.
Hey John,
Yup, once that’s cured you can do anything you need to over it. That includes sanding down the high spots and/or filling in the low ones. You can mix your thinset a bit thinner to get it to spread better – it won’t hurt anything. Just be aware that if you get too much water in it that may cause the thinset to shrink or crack. That is normally not a problem with just filling seams and such, though. More with installing the tile or trying to fill low spots in a wavy floor with thinset (don’t do that
).
i have 2 layers of 3/4 plywood & 1 layer of 1/2 durock in the bathroom & the same in the closet except 1/2 plywood instead of durock.
Bob
Oh, good to hear. Just replace the 1/2″ ply with durock in the closet and you’ll be good to go. The plywood is not a suitable substrate at all for tile of any sort, let alone large format marble. Use the durock and you’ll be fine.
hey Roger,
i am doing my bathroom in 18×18 marble tile & now the wife wants to do the walk-in closet also. i have 3/8 wood flooring in there now on top of a plywood sub-base. the sub0base is level with my durock in the bathroom. is there a way that i can leave the plywood sub-base down & use a mastic or something to put the marble down on the plywood or do i have to rip the plywood out & put durock down? no water will get in there. thanks, Bob
Hi Bob,
18×18 marble requires a VERY rigid floor and a suitable substrate – one layer of plywood subfloor is neither. You need at least durock with thinset beneath it provided you have proper deflection (minimum bouncy) for natural stone. I’m a bit confused about your description, however. If the plywood is level with your durock does that mean there are two layers of plywood over your joists and in the bathroom you have only one layer with durock on top of it?
Just want to say that I accidentally stumbled upon this site and am glad I found it-also thanks for taking the time to answer my silly questions such as this one: How would you finish off the edges on a chair rail? I would like to do something like this pic as far as the accents go but not sure about how to finish off the edge on the chair rail.
Click here to view the photo
Hi Monika,
I inserted a link for your photo. I usually 45 the ends and put a vertical piece there (45′d as well). This will essentially frame the diamonds with the chair rail and leave a nicely finished edge. You can see that in this subway-style shower I did here: Subway tile shower in Fort Collins
Roger,
Question – I have about 400 sq foot of porcelain tiles in my kitchen, guest bath and foyer. Some of these have very small chips on the edges, is there something I can use to repair the chips rather than try to remove and replace the tile?
Thanks,
Mary
Hi Mary,
You can either get an epoxy paint that matches the surface of your tile and simply make the chips the same color or you can get either ‘knife-grade polyester’ or some epoxy grout, either of which can be colored and formed into shapes. You can then form a fill to fill in the chipped areas and let it cure. Either of those product cure rock-hard and stick to whatever you put them on – and I do mean everything, hide the dog while you’re playing with it.
Thank you for the reply. By the way, the vinegar solution works great for cleaning grout. Did my master bathroom last night and looks like new.
Hey Roger do you have any advice on building a shower seat? Ive done some research and some people use cement block and others use pressure treated wood. does it matter if i was to cover it with Kerdi anyway?
Hi Gretchen,
If you are covering it with kerdi you can build it out of anything you want – EXCEPT pressure treated wood. Anything you place behind there will stay bone dry. Pressure treated wood does not like bone dry – it will begin to dissipate the moisture that it is infused with over time. This causes the wood to dry out and twist and warp. It’ll be dry but it will move – no good. Just use regular 2×4′s and drywall or backerboard. You can use cinder blocks if you are building it on concrete – wood will leech moisture from the concrete itself and swell. So if your substrate is wood – use wood. If it’s concrete use cinder blocks.
Roger,
How do I decide on what size trowel to use when tiling a shower wall? I am installing a 13 x 20 tile. Also, should the first course of tile be installed and allowed to set up before going higher to prevent movment? I am going to be using the U shaped spacers (thanks to your advice) because they will not crush. Thanks!
Hey John,
Normally the larger the tile, or the more uneven or flat your substrate, the larger the trowel. With a tile that size I would be inclined to use a 3/8″ x 3/8″ U-notch if you have a flat substrate or a 1/2″ x 1/2″ U-notch for a less than ideal substrate.
I am going to cover my cement board with Hydoban to seal and I want to use fabric as well for extra protection. I’m sure this is overkill but that’s what I want. Is it OK to cover the joints, coves, cornors and walls with fabric (and Hydoban). Laticrete tech says its OK but they have given me bad info before. Thanks
P.S. hopes it’s Ok, I have already made the purchase.
Hey John,
Absolutely it’s fine to use reinforcing fabric in your installation. Makes your installation stronger.
Roger,
First I want to say great website! I am a tile newbie and to find a website like this to provide plain answers to some of these common problems is a great asset. . I have completed a small laundry room installation that resulted is some slight lipage, but overall not horrible for a first timer. If I had found your webite sooner I am sure that it would have been much better. Now it’s on to bigger a better things! The wife recently purchased a large 40″ x 40″ tile mosaic medallion that I am preparing to install in the foyer. My first question would be, Is the medallion installed first or last? I would think first and then any adjustments to be made would be done with the smaller surrounding tiles, however I read an article that stated that the medallion should be installed last. Are there any other tips for installing the medallion? What is the expansion gap next to the exterior door filled with? I would think that it should be caulked. Any advice you can provide will be greatly appreciated.
Hey Rick,
I always install the medallions first. That way any adjustments that need to be made can be made in the field tile surrounding it and don’t change the look or layout of the medallion at all. Some people do it last – usually to prevent damage to the medallion – just don’t hit it with a hammer, eh? It’s always easier to lay down your field tile (not install, just lay it out) as if you don’t have a medallion, then lay the medallion on top of it and trace around it. Number the field pieces as you pick them up to cut them and you’ll have a perfect fit.
Fill the gap at the threshold with 100% silicone.
Thanks for the tips and fast response. Putting down hardi board today (With thinset!) I will send pics when finished thank for the advice!
Roger,
Just a quick update. Installed medallion last nite! After using your hint about getting measurements with field tile. A hint for anyone else trying this, the medallion is stuck to a pretty flimsy backer material and is almost impossible to move unsupported. I made a template from cardboard to approximately center the medallion in the space. I then placed the medallion on a peice of plywood that was cut slightly larger than my medallion and slid it off of the board, adjusted it to the proper position and drew outline on the floor. I then slide the medallion back onto plywood, put down thinset, and screwed in guide boards next to my outline. I placed the plywood on the guide boards and raised the plywood up sliding the medallion( with help of course) onto the outline. Slight adjustments were possible with the medallion in the thinset. I don’t think we could have moved it more than 1/4 ” though. Put your plywood on top of the medallion and put pressure on it to sink it in the mud while maintaning flatness. I was installing a 40″ x 40″ medallion in a foyer. Not a lot of space to manuveur.. A bit large and unwieldy. More later…
Roger,
Little update to my tiling job from hell!!!!! Install went surprisingly well. Everything is flat and level. I then attempted to do grout using Mapei sanded grout. Unfortunately the cute little picture directions on the back of the bag (you know in case you don’t speak english) did’nt relay well enough to this english speaker that it would be a good idea to dry mix the powder before mixing. I can tell you their website is clear on this though!. Needless to say I ended up with two different shades of grout. The good news is that I did’nt get the entire floor done. The bad news is that I have been chipping grout out of that F@#$in medallion for two weeks now! As I am almost complete with that wonderful task, I have a couple of questions. The first would be regarding getting 2/3 of the grout joint clear to add more grout. This ain’t gonna happen in that medallion. Some of the joints are 1/16th I bet. I have been using a carbide tip scribe to eek a little crack out of them, but there is no way or tool that I know of to get in there any farther. These joints are so smal, do you think the grout will stay in them? and second, I was gonna do a tile trim on the floor. A. Do you complete the floor grout and then install the trim peices, or vice versa? and B. Is it advisable to use a mastic to adhere the tile to the wall or thinset? Any help you can provide considering any of these issues or anything else concerning this would be greatly appreciated.
Mapei grouts suck – there, I said it! Actually, just like any other grout, they’re fine if you follow the directions precisely, apparently with mapei it needs to be the directions on the website rather than on the bag.
You should be fine with the grout in the medallion, just get as much as you possibly can out of there. (Have you tried a 1/32″ drill bit?
)You can put up base with mastic if you wanna – it won’t hurt anything. I always put it up before I grout and just grout everything at once, it’s just faster.
Hi Roger,
Ive been a commercial construction superintendant for years so Ive had the opportunity to learn something about pretty much every trade there is by getting on my hands and knees and helping out when needed, free training is how I look at it. Plus I cant stand when people just stand there and watch me work, as most superintendants do, not trying to offend anybody because I have done it, still do when I have too and honestly thats truly what we’re supposed to be doing. That said…..most trades (electrical, carpentry, trim etc) seem to pretty much follow the same set of guidelines for propler installation, code etc….with the exception of the tile setters. Over the years I have seen tile installed lots of different ways, some of which Im learning are incorrect or atleast not the best way as I continue reading your website almost nightly. I have tiled 4-5 rooms in my life, most of which were small landings and 30-50 sqft bathrooms/kitchen in a first floor condo with a concrete subfloor that I used to own. Before I tiled all of the spaces/rooms I pulled up the existing Linoleum, removed all the glue(using an emulsifier), and then set the tile directly on the concrete using your favorite friend, thinset mortar that I mixed in a 5 gallon bucket following the directions on the bag and never had any problems, broken tiles or cracks in the grout for the 7 years that I lived ther. Well I have since sold that condo and recently bought a house(1 week ago) which was built in 1984. During the showing I noticed that the kitchen and 1 of the bathrooms had new tile. To make a long story short, the inspector I hired noticed that the kitchen sink had been leaking and had rotted out the bottom of the sink cabinet, I thought no problem Ill just fix plumbing and replace bottom of cabinet or buy a new prefab sink cabinet to use until my wife and I can afford to tear out and replace the crappy, and I mean crappy ghetto cabinets that WERE there. I say were there because after tearing out the sink cabinet my parents offered to buy us new cabinets and counter tops for the whole kitchen(11′deepx10’6″widex11′deep) I had the cabinet layout designed by a kitchen designer using high quality prebuilt cabinets ($4500.00 worth). Now that all of the cabinets are out and the new ones are sitting in the garage I have noticed two things.
1. The tile is installed on top of, (starting with the floor joist) 3/4 plywood – 1/2 particle board – linoleum – 1/4 backerboard – tile
2. The kickplate on the old cabinets had a depth of 2 1/2″ and the new cabinets have kickplates with a depth of 4 or 4 1/2″. So essentially I have a 2″ gap between the edge of the tile and the new cabinet kickplate.
So I have two questions:
1.) After reading your website for awhile and learning that it isn’t good practice to install tile ontop of particle board, would you tear out all 210 sqft of brand new tile and backerboard as well as the old particle board and just start over?
If the answer to question 1 is “No” or “you don’t have to” than read question 2 : )
2.) If I can leave the floor, with minimal risk of the dog catching on fire is there a solution for my problem? Keeping in mind that only 6″ of any newly installed tile will be exposed AND……here it comes……. the current floor tiles are 13″, the contractor didn’t leave me any extra tiles(I hope you never do that), the exact tile has been discontinued, however I have managed to find a tile that is extremely close in color and texture(nobody could tell it’s different but me)BUT………. it only comes in 16″ tiles.
I had planned on spending two or three days tearing old cabinets out, installing new ones, painting, trimming and then making my wife happy by presenting her with a brand new kitchen before we have to move in. HA! I guess after all my years in construction I have failed to learn that NO job and I mean NO job goes totally according to plan as Im sure you know. But what I have learned is that any project done incorrectly or “half assed” will most assuredly yield extensive, time consuming repairs and tons of aggravation at somepoint in the future. Hopefully you can shed some light on my problems keeping in mind that I want to do it right not matter how much labor is involved.
sorry for writing such a long question, I just realized that ive been typing for 10 minutes.
thanks for your help and time
James
Hi James,
If it were up to me yes, I would absolutely tear it out – especially if I were living there. The different tiles would drive me absolutely insane!
Ideally I would take it down to the 3/4″ plywood and add an additional 1/2″ ply then a tile substrate – ditra or 1/4″ backer. Then let your wife pick out a tile she wants. Let her do it – you’ll never live it down. 
With that typed, you actually can leave it if you choose to do so. There may be a few problems though. My concerns with that, in order, would be first the particle board – it explodes when exposed to moisture. That probably won’t be a problem unless your kitchen floods or something leaks at some point (since you have linoleum which will stop most errant water short of something leaking). If something does leak, though, you’re tearing your cabinets back out to replace it all anyway. Secondly, you didn’t mention it but I’ll bet you a case of pepsi that there is no thinset beneath the backerboard (and it’s probably installed with drywall screws
). Eventually your grout will likely begin to crack from the 1/4″ backer being worked loose because it isn’t fully supported – back to square one. The 16″ format isn’t that big of a deal (depending on what type of finished edge the other tiles have) but again, it would drive me nuts because I could tell where they were cut to size.
Either one of those would cause me to tear it out – the first two together would guarantee it. Since you want to do it right you know what you need to do. Take it out and build a floor that will last until your wife gets tired of looking at it. She shouldn’t have a problem with it – after all, she gets to pick out brand new tile for her brand new kitchen. Ask her if she wants in-floor heating beneath it and she’ll probably help you build it, too.
And you’re right – a job never goes as planned – ever. But at least your dog will be safe.
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