I get a LOT of questions from my readers about basic shower construction. I understand that my readers don’t consider this stuff basic and there’s no problem with that. The problem is that I end up answering the same questions over and over and over… So, to save what very little is left of my sanity (which is a number roughly equivalent to absolute zero) I will cover some basic things here so I can simply reply ‘read this’.
If you’ve been channeled to this page by one of my smart-ass comments please take no offense to it, I’m here to help. Please understand that I currently have over 12,000 comments (questions) on this site (seriously) which I’ve answered – every one of them. I’m just trying to make your life (mine) easier. I will continue to answer every question I’m asked, I’m just super cool like that. 
If, after reading through this, you still have questions feel free to ask them in the comments below.
You can also download my shower waterproofing manual which should answer a lot of questions and cover basic techniques and methods you may be confused about. Go ahead, it’s free. So without further ado (doesn’t even look like a word, does it?) let’s get on with it. (For all my readers who feel the need to correct me: I KNOW it’s actually ‘adieu’ – I was being facetious. Thanks. 
)
Leaks
First and foremost – tile is not waterproof. Grout is not waterproof. Adding sealer to your tile or stone will not make it waterproof. Your shower should be completely waterproof before a box of tile is even opened! No matter which waterproofing method you choose, proper substrate preparation is the only thing that will make your shower waterproof.
If you have a leak in your shower – stop using it immediately if at all possible. If that is not possible (it’s your only shower) have the shower repaired – immediately. If you see water leaking it is likely not nearly as much water as you don’t see leaking into your wall cavity and structural framing. By the time you ‘see’ most leaks the framing is normally already considerably compromised.
No, there is nothing you can put over your tile to make your shower waterproof if you have a leak – not even sealer. A tile or stone sealer is made to make your tile and grout stain-resistant, not waterproof. It does this by sealing the pores of the tile and stone to slow (NOT STOP) the absorption of liquid and prevent staining. It only means you have more time to clean up the spilled red wine cherry kool-aid before it stains anything.
Substrates
Drywall is not an acceptable substrate for your shower unless you are using Schluter Kerdi waterproofing membrane – that’s it. Cement backerboards are the standard and there are also other products such as waterproofed, gypsum based boards like Denshield and waterproofed, foam-based sheets like wedi or kerdi board.
Cement backerboards are not waterproof. They are water stable, which simply means that they will not swell or disintegrate when exposed to moisture or water – they won’t change size. But they are just like your driveway, they will soak in water, hold water, and dry out, just like your driveway when it rains. If using backerboards there needs to be a waterproof membrane utilized as well.
Membranes
If you are using a topical waterproofing membrane such as a liquid like redgard or hydroban, or a sheet like kerdi, do not use a moisture or vapor barrier behind your substrate. If you have a vapor or moisture barrier behind your substrate do not use a topical membrane on the front of it. This combination creates two waterproof barriers with your substrate sandwiched between them. any vapor or moisture trapped between them has absolutely no way to dissipate. This is lovingly referred to as a ‘mold sandwich’. It is not tasty. Use either a moisture or vapor barrier behind your substrate or a topical membrane on the face of it. One or the other – never both.
With that said, if you want to use a topical liquid such as redgard on the seams of your backerboard, after you tape and mud them, you can do so without problems. If your moisture barrier and backerboards are properly installed there is no real reason to do so – but if it will help you sleep at night go ahead and do it.
If you are using a topical membrane and you have an exterior wall with either plastic facing or kraft paper facing you need to cut slits into that facing before installing your substrate. If you do not it will create the aforementioned mold sandwich. Give moisture or vapor somewhere to dissipate.
Shower-tub transitions
There should be a gap between your tub or acrylic shower base and the bottom of your backerboard. If you are using a traditional barrier waterproofing method you do not need to do anything with this gap. Do not fill it with silicone! This will trap moisture running down your barrier and it will have nowhere to go. If you are using a topical method you can fill it with silicone if you want. If you are using liquid you should fill it with silicone. This creates a waterproof plane between your membrane and the tub or base so water or moisture ends up in the drain rather than in your wall.
When you tile you can tile right over that gap. You should not fill this gap with thinset behind the tile – it will crack due to movement. Your wall and tub or base will expand and contract at different rates – it will crack any cement-based product you place between the two. This includes thinset as well as grout. You do not need a solid backing behind your tile over this gap – it should be less than 1″ wide. You shouldn’t normally be walking on that tile in that particular spot. Yes, it can just hang there.
Grout
If your grout is cracking it is due to movement 99.9% of the time. Type ‘cracking’ into the search box up there and you’ll find in-depth explanations for your viewing pleasure.
If you have white, or lighter than normal grout when you’re finished grouting it may be efflorescence. This is mainly due to minerals in the water being left on the surface of the grout when the water evaporates. It is usually indicative of either incorrectly mixed grout or using too much water while cleaning the grout – not wringing out your sponge enough. This is normally only on the surface of your grout. Scratch the very top layer of your grout in an inconspicuous spot with your fingernail. If you have the correct, or at least a darker, color beneath the surface that is the likely cause. The easiest, quickest fix, provided it is only the very top layer, is to get some drywall sanding sponges and go over the grout lines very lightly. Just like burnt toast – scrape it to the color you like.
Corners and changes-of-plane
Caulk.
Disagree with me?
Like any other website I get my fair share of people who disagree with my methods or techniques – it really doesn’t bother me. I am more than willing to have a civilized, intelligent conversation about anything tile related. If, however, you simply attack me personally and act like an uncivilized ass I will call you on it – and not in a nice way. I write this blog in a particular manner, it does not mean that I take my profession lightly – I most certainly do not. If I wanted to be a pompous bastard I currently have 19 letters I can place after my name – all tile related. But I’m not a pompous bastard – you can just call me Roger.
If you are a contractor with a customer who has come here for information and I’ve told them you’re wrong – realize that the extent of my knowledge of that particular project is limited to what I’m told by your customer. It does not mean that I am ‘out to get you’ or anything of the sort. I normally limit my replies to those situations by stating the current TCNA and/or ANSI standards pertaining to what I’m told. If you disagree – please let me know in a civil manner, If you’re correct I’ll back it up – I do this everyday, too! If you’re an asshole about it expect the same in return (It’s the comment by ‘Kanela’ with the bold print before it) – and please have a thesaurus handy to interpret my reply – I’m a very well educated asshole.
That’s it for now. I will likely add to this post on a regular basis. If there is anything I’ve caused confusion with please, for the love of God, let me know. I can change this page since, you know, it’s my website and all. If you have any questions at all please ask them below – I’ll answer, really.
Hello Roger,
I just picked up your manual on liquid waterproofing. I am getting the tools and materials together to begin work. I hit a small road block. When I pulled the tub out of the bathroom it uncovered that the drain is not run through the cement. There is approximately a one foot by one foot square in my concrete floor. Will I need to pour concrete into this area to have a consistent substrate. If yes, are there any other options to filling in this hole?
Hey Matthew,
You can fill it with deck mud as you create your shower floor. It doesn’t need to be concrete.
Hi Roger
As always you have been my source of both knowledge and support throughout our master bath shower and tile project… I think we’re almost there… last night we finished grouting our shower floor that we finished with pebbles… however I think we left the layer on too long and we are having a dickens of a time removing the grout from the top of the tile… so much so that we are having to scrape it off with a putty knife and then brushing it with what amounts to a brillo pad (pot scrubber). From progress so far I think this is going to take longer than the grouting did… it’s basically a horrible process… I had sealed the stones before grouting but that doesn’t seem to be helping a great deal
any suggestions?…
Hey Dan,
Yeah, I have a suggestion, but it won’t do you any damn good right now.
You need to begin washing the grout sooner, don’t let it dry on the surface and set up like that. Always scrape as much as possible off the surface with your float as you are grouting, the less on there the less to clean up.
Sorry, I told you it wouldn’t do any damn good.
Hi Rodger,
Thank you, for all of you’re information. I’ve bought several of your books, all are very good reads and worth every penny I paid.
One of my shower walls is out of plumb 3/4″ in 8′. If i fur it plumb in that corner, the floor will be 3/4″ out of square. Should i split the difference 3/8″x3/8″, or make my wall corner plumb?
I’m planing on using 6″x3″ white tiles on the wall in a subway pattern, and large format 18″x18″ laid diagonally for the floor. I’m sure the subway pattern will make the out of plumb condition pop out like a sore thumb, but I’m thinking the large format diagonal floor will easily hide 3/4″ in 6′
Also I can’t fur the whole 3/4 as my toilet won’t work. Im at a 10″ rough in as it sits.
Hi Rod,
I would get the wall as plumb as you can. You’re correct, you’ll really see it with those subway tiles, the floor tiles will hide a lot.
Hello Roger,
I thought you might find this interesting; http://www.lowes.com/cd_Prep+for+Shower+Wall+Tile_1394206165591_
Here you have a huge national chain giving the wrong advice on how to waterproof a shower. They tell you to use both the traditional and topical method at the same time. Do they do this to increase sales when the person that follows this has to tear it out a year later when it starts smelling of mold and mildew? haha
Oh, awesomesauce. I’ll leave them a nice little comment later, I love pissing on companies misinformation.
Thanks!
Hello Rodger,
I have read your waterproofing e-book and I have chosen the topical waterproofing method (hydro ban). I am using a Swanstone shower base. My question is does this pan sit directly against the wall studs? I believe that I have to put some sort of “mud” under it.. can you elaborate on what that is? Also if the pan doesn’t reach the studs what do i do then? I am taking out a shower pan now.. and when I remove the substrate that is there now I am not sure how much of a gap this will create. Also this is a manfactured home..if that makes any difference. Please help..
thanks!
Sharon
Hi Sharon,
Normally they want either concrete or thinset beneath the pan. Yes, it should butt against the studs. If it does not center it so there is less than 1/2″ on each side (the thickness of your substrate) and install the backer so it covers the edge of the pan.
Roger,
thank you so much for your reply..I have enjoyed reading your manuels!!! I may have a question or two along the way.. but I feel pretty confident.. thanks to you!
Sharon
Hello Rodger,
about that thin set..is there one that is pre-mixed that is good, or is it best to mix it myself…if so which one is best..i was looking last nite and there are a lot to choose from.
will this same thin set work for placing the tiles since i am using hydro ban?
also does hardiboard work ok with these applications, or is durorock better?
so many choices..
the first part of my question was referring to the thin set that goes under the show pan.
thanks!
Sharon
You can use any thinset you want under the pan, it’s only there to fill voids, not to bond to anything. No premixed will do that, mix it yourself. Any good modified thinset will work for both the pan and the tile, pick one for your tile and use it under the pan as well. I like laticrete 253, mapei ultraflex, versabond. Any good modified will work fine. Both backers do the same thing, hardi is easier to work with.
Hello Rodger,
so I am going to have to replace that before I go any further. This week is going to be a tough one.
Thank you for the info, and the quick response. I am going to pick up a bag this week… During the demolition I discovered some water damage to the floor
Thanks again
Sharon
Hi Roger,
I am at the point of placing the top mud on the shower floor on top of the liner. I have read the section completely in your book “Creating a Traditionally Waterproof Shower” but I am at a loss on the final top slope height next to my drain. In your book, you state to make sure that the top mud deck slopes to the drain and to make sure that you can unscrew it enough to allow for the height of the finished tile. My issue is that I am using a drain that is square on top and not round. So when I place the top mud deck next to the drain, I won’t have any option of screwing or unscrewing it to adjust it. So….my question is; How much room should I leave from the top of the finished drain to the top of the top mud deck? My floor tiles are 1″ x 2″ mosaic and are 1/4″ thick. How much room should I allow for the grout?
Thanks,
Rick
Hi Rick,
You don’t leave any room for grout, I assume you mean thinset.
Leave 5/16″. The easiest way to do it is get a thin piece of cardboard representing how thick you’ll have your thinset and set it next to the drain cover with one of your tiles on top of it. The distance between the top of the tile and top of the drain will be the height of your top mud deck.
I forgot to ask a few more questions.
You mention a small gap in the corners when installing backerboard. How much of a gap? And to further clarify the backerboard is installed right up to the adjacent framing, and the adjacent backerboard is cut like a butt joint but with the gap? As opposed to each backerboard cut 1/2″ short From the stud? Not sure if that made sense??
I would also like to know if I leave the same gap at the floor ( concrete floor).
And finally, is the backerboard installed down to the floor before the mud bed? The photos show the mud up to the 2×4 plates,and there is no backerboard. I’m guessing the photos (in the kerdi ebook) are from a traditional Instal.
Thanks in advance.
1/4″ or so in the corners. You can do 1/2″ on each side if you want, but it’s a pain to get them consistent.
Yes, same gap at the floor.
You’re correct, the backer can be embedded in the mud with a kerdi shower.
Awesome website, and even more awesome ebooks!
My concern is I would like to build a kerdi membrane shower with one of the walls being an exterior wall with a vapor barrier.
You say to not do this, and if I “have” to, then slits should be cut into the exterior vapor barrier.
First question would be is this necessary? If the membrane is water proof, and the vapor barrier is too, then what moisture is getting trapped to make the mold sandwich?
Since I know you will have an answer to question number one, my,second question is how many slits, and how big of a slit,do I make?
Thirdly would I just be better off with a traditional shower?
I am drawn to the kerdi system. It makes sense, and seems to be the “best” way to do it. Now I am concerned that slitting the vapor barrier will jeprodize it, although the new kerdi wall will replace the slitted barrier right?
Hi Brendan,
1. If you place ice water in a glass and set in on a table in a dry room condensation will form on the outside of the glass due to temperature differential (basically). The same thing happens inside of a wall.
2. One slit in each stud bay (between the studs) about 2/3 the length of the wall.
3. No. Kerdi is much better.
The ice water makes total sense! I feel silly for asking.
Ok so I make a butt joint with 1/4″ or so gap in the corners. Same gap at the bottom of the backer and concrete floor. Then the bed is made, thus embedding the backer board.
While measuring out my area, I noticed my exterior wall (which will be the 60″. Wall) is framed 24oc. Will this be sturdy enough once the backer is installed and kerdied up? Or should I add some studs? I always frame 16oc. The exterior basement walls were framed by the builder.
And as a point of interest, all my shower drains are 1-1/2″. That’s code here, possibly because low flow shower heads Are required too?? Not sure, but I’ve never had any issues with drainage. I will use an adaptor.
I was at Home Depot today and had a bit of sticker shock with the schluter pricing! I’m not deterred though. I’m still convinced it’s the best way. I even got into an argument with a coworker (who does showers “on the side”) about how tiles and grout don’t leak if installed properly. Yikes!!
Any thoughts about doing a video?
No idea about the low flow heads, I’ve never seen a code like that.
Have thought about videos, just haven’t gotten around to it yet. Day job and all.
Hi Roger,
A few questions. Put here because they don’t fit with any particular posts of yours.
1. When using non-rectified tile and narrow (1/16) grout lines, do you need to cut some of the non-square edges to achieve that narrow line, or does that just depend on the tile(s)? Mine are coming from Capco (Fort Collins).
2. I want to put in a niche within 12×24 field tiles oriented vertically with staggered horizontal grout lines. Haven’t stripped the old tile and substrate yet, so don’t know the stud layout yet, but it seems the odds of having the studs line up with my tile layout are slim. And you really don’t want to change your tile layout to fit the niche right? I’ve seen your posts about aligning the niche with the grout lines, and would like to achieve that. Short of pure dumbass luck, do you have to plan on adjusting the framing which could be a pain, or do you have any magic schemes? My niche would be the size of one full field tile with a shelf inside.
3. Also planning on using the waterfall mosaics along the fixtures vertically, and I like your method of first setting the mosaics on Ditra, then the wall. Since the edges of the mosaics need to interdigitate from one full tile to the next, are the Ditra backers cut less than full size, like back to where the staggering (not the beer) starts? And leave the interdigitated mosaics Ditra-less. I made up that word.
Thanks for all your help. Awesome site!
Greg in Fort Collins
By the way, how do I know that you have replied to my post?
Just keep checking back, or is there an email notice?
Greg
There should be an email notice. This should be your second.
Hi Greg,
1. It depends on the tile. If you would have to cut tiles to get it right then you’re grout lines are not large enough for that particular tile.
2. With staggered tile you will not get a two foot high niche to line up with all tiles anyway. Be concerned with lining up the top and bottom grout lines, the side tiles can be cut. Provided you still run the pattern through the back of the niche it will be correct.
3. With interlocking mosaics on that much wall it’s much easier to first install the ditra onto the wall, then the mosaics onto the ditra. Nice word improv!
Roger, thanks.
1) Get what you’re saying here. I laid our samples abutted (I’ll let you play with that one!) and on these two tiles ended up with just about 1/16. I guess you get the full order and lay out a bunch and see what happens and adjust accordingly.
2) Get that too. I was gonna use the mosaic on the back of the niche, and try to get the whole niche (top and bottom grout lines) to line up with the staggered layout.
3) That’s a great idea. So then the Ditra maintains the space for the mosaics! In that case, do you still reverse the facing of the Ditra to the mosaics? Or keep the dovetails out to the mosaics? Or does it really matter? I hate to admit it, but I’m kinda anal like you.
I don’t see any reply or notifications in email or spam. No biggie,, but thought you might like to know.
Thanks again for all you do.
Best,
Greg
Thanks again for all you do!
That last part was redundant redundant.
The fleece side of the ditra faces out – toward the mosaics. The dovetails face the wall.
Thanks Roger.
Hi Roger,
Hey built a shower about five months ago, and I floated the walls in the shower. I set the tile in the shower, and later ended up expanding it around the corner by the toilet. The area where I ended up expanding it, is sheet rock. There now is a hairline crack where the mud back and sheet rock meet. What should I do?
Thanks,
Curt
Hi Curt,
You need to tape and mud the transition from mud to drywall.
We had a tiled shower installed recently. They used the cement board and waterproof membrane. The grout is QuartzLock. We have noticed there is some water droplets coming out of the grout at the bottom of the wall where it meets the tiled floor. In opening up the panel behind the shower wall, I notice it is damp between the membrane and cement board. Can you give me an idea of what is going on?
Hi Shelley,
Yes, your shower is working completely normally. That is all that is going on.
Hi Roger,
I built a shower about 15 years ago for the first time. Didn’t know anything about durock, Kerdi or any other water proofing. At the time I was told to use greenboard ha ha! Well it did work for 15 years. But here is the question.When I built it I had a shower pan made out of galvanized metal 3X5 feet with the drain in the middle. I tiled the shower right to the bottom of the interior of the pan.When I hired the mason to put in the cement base with the tiles inlaid in it, he said the base should have been done first so the wall tiles could sit on top of the base. Well it was to late for that so I just sealed up the tiles with some clear silicon. When I got a leak 15 years later it was from some cracks that went unnoticed in the tile grout on the wall, but no moisture in the pan what so ever.Sorry for the long story but after I removed the old shower the cement base and tiles are in perfect shape. There is about 1/2″ to 3/4″ gap between the cement base and the outer edge of the shower pan.My plan is to use durock and thin set and the Kerdi membrane followed by tiles sitting right on the cement base sealed with the clear silicon again. What do you think ? I would really like to reuse the cement base.
Hi Ken,
As long as you can tie the kerdi into the steel base you should be just fine.
Roger, Roger, Roger…
About six months ago I leaned up against the wall and four tiles gave way.
They were mounted on 4×4 tile attached to drywall. New construction…1990. I gutted the entire bathroom including the subfloor.
I’m now having three fingers of scotch. Just finished tiling the floor. Shower is in. Wain coating is in. Built in Medicine Cabinet is also in.
Using your Pdfs have been a god send. Thank you.
I’m covered with thinset and I just wanted you to know how much I appreciate you helping morons like me.
My shower doesn’t leak. It’s perfect. Replaced the subfloor and gutted the entire bathroom.
Used the traditional method.
Each piece of rock has your website written on it. 30 years from now I’m sure your going to hear about it.
Glass is empty….later. Hope the vet is going well.
Pat
Hiya Pat,
Well done! It’s a great feeling when you’re all done, isn’t it? Every rock has YOUR name on it, all I can do is give advice. Glad I could help.
Great site, with lots of really interesting tips and insights. I have a question about cleaning up mortar on the face of travertine like tiles. As recommended for Kerdi installations, I use non-modified thin set mortar..it is white in color. The tile is a brown tone. Of course, I managed to get some on the face of the trim tile which is a porous travertine like Mosaic.
Wondering if you have any suggestions on how to clean that off, including the gunk that got stuck in the pits on the face of the tile.
Thanks again for all of the great tips, they are really appreciated.
Hi James,
Is it travertine, or is it ‘travertine like’?
If it’s travertine you’ll need to dig it out of the pits physically. You can use a sanding sponge (for drywall) on the surface CAREFULLY to remove it from the surface, but you’ll need to use a dental pick or something similar to get it out of the pits. Keep in mind that white thinset will take color from the grout, so when you grout it the grout will stain the white thinset that color. So you don’t really need to remove all of it from the pits, just a good portion away from the surface.
Thanks for the reply, I will try what you have suggested. Most helpful.
Hi,
I was just wondering about proper thinset coverage.
I have installed 300×600 porcelain tile in my kitchen (65 sq ft), and even when I checked the tiles for coverage (picking the odd one up to check) it seemed ok, but was wondering if there was a good way to check for coverage after the installation.
I was tempted to check every tile as they were laid down, but that may just have been a bit too much work.
I was using a 1/2 x 1/2 square notch trowel and back buttering the tiles.
C
Hi Chris,
I pull one up about every ten or fifteen tiles or so. If that’s your trowel size you won’t have a problem at all.
Roger,
Great site!
I have a question about the gap between the bottom edge of tile and an acrylic shower pan. I used plastic sheeting over the walls which I sealed with silicone to the outer lip of my acrylic shower pan. My DUROCK ends slightly above the outer lip of the shower pan. My tile hangs over the DUROCK about 1/2″ and is about 3/8″ from touching the inner lip of the shower pan (the bottom is a cut edge of tile). If I understood the article above, I should not caulk or seal this gap? However, when the shower runs, it splashes up under this gap and allows quite a bit of moisture behind the tile and I am concerned. In looking on the internet, most people advise sealing this bottom gap. Can you please advise?
Hi Sheri,
You can seal that gap, not sure where I’ve ever said not to. Just make sure you leave weep holes.
Hi Rodger,
I have someone remodeling my bathroom. All of the walls were removed as well as the ceramic tile that was in place. The sheetrock located right near the spout and stem was full of mold. Mind you this is a home I just purchased 3 months ago. The guy who is redoing the bathroom got the greenrock mildew resistant sheetrock. He wants to place compound directly on top and began tiling. I can concerned about water leaking in the future.Is there anything I can do before the tile to prevent water damage?Please let me know ASAP so that I can prevent any long term damage as I dont want to have to redo this again in a few years due to mold. Should I just apply regard or should i cover the sheetrock with hardiboard?
Hi Bre,
It should be taken out and built properly. Your shower is NOT waterproof right now. you’ll end up with the same problem sometime in the future.
Hi Roger! Thanks for the article. We had a contractor come in and time our entire bathroom for us. When he filed the shower floor if is COMPLETELY uneven and doesn’t drain, causing mold, etc. He just abandoned us or it would probably be fixed.
Hi Tiffany,
Sorry for your issues. Did you have a question that I may be able to help with? If it doesn’t drain it’s built incorrectly, period. But you already knew that.
I used this Youtube video as the primary instruction for building a shower:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXTAkwMqtEc
I have made it to the point where I have put in the mud bed over the shower pan liner, but not yet tiled. It seems like this video has at least one fundamental mistake – the 15# felt paper barrier is installed before the pan liner, and does not overlap into it. I repeated this mistake. It seems like I should rip out at least the lower parts of the Hardiebacker I’ve installed so that I can overlap the felt into the pan liner. (This is not counting my feeling that using 15# felt paper was a mistake in itself, I should have left it out, and just used Redgard, or spent more and gone with Kerdi…)
Is there any way of knowing how much water actually gets to the moisture barrier behind the cement board to the point where it would run down the barrier and into the pan liner if everything else was installed properly? It seems like there would have to bead up to run down the wall, but how is there enough room for it to do that?
Hi Tom,
Yes, you need to have the felt overlap the liner. There will be enough water over time to run down the wall, if not overlapped it will run into your framing and floor and destroy it. Believe me, there’s enough. I tear them out weekly – literally. And it doesn’t so much bead up and run down, it wicks through the thinset, but it will build up.
Hi Roger,
I need some help with design!
In laying out my tile with my back wall which will have a niche centered horizontally, I have it so it perfectly lines up with both horizontal and vertical grout lines. The field tile is 11-3/4”. I have decided to use 6” x 6” tile placed diagonally across the back wall about mid-height. The bottom tip of the diagonal tile is at the lower shelf level of my niche. To keep uniformity, I have made sure that the grout lines of the diagonal tile transitions nicely to the side walls. However, here in lies my problem. The shower faucet handle will be part way on the diagonal tile and part way on the 11-3/4” field tile. Since I kept the transition of the diagonal tile from the back wall to the sides, it places my handle in an UGLY (Crappy) looking position. It just does not look right and looks out of place. If I move it down (the faucet handle) to be fully on the field tile, the center height of the handle will only be 38” from finished floor height. If I move it up to be in the diagonal tile, it won’t be centered on any piece of the diagonal tile and looks like crap. Besides that, I would have to make some difficult cuts in the diagonal tile to accommodate the faucet valve. Since I am still kind of in the planning stages, I still have the ability to move the faucet handle, shift the diagonal tile left or right as needed or move the diagonal tile up one row of field tile. However, if I move the tile up above one row of field tile, that will then throw off my plans for a nice transition in the niche with shelf location. If I shift the diagonal tiles left or right based on my side wall, it will throw off the balance of how it looks on the back wall. What are my options?
1) Move the diagonal tile up one field tile and figure out something different with my niche shelf?
2) Don’t use diagonal tile and change to some type of mosaic that will be easier to blend the faucet handle with the tile layout?
3) Lower the faucet handle and accept the fact that it may have to be only 38” from finished floor height?
4) Just put it in there and don’t worry about it and when people ask me why it looks like crap, I can tell them I was drunk when I installed it.
I need some other options!!!!!
Thanks for all your help!
Rick
Hi Rick,
I would either lower the handle or, if you have a shelf in the middle of your niche, raise the diagonal portion 1 or 1 1/2 tiles and have the middle shelf of your niche line up with the straight/diagonal transition.
Or the drunk thing. That’ll work too.
Thanks for the advise Roger! You’re the man! And my dog didn’t burst into flames!
I was able to move the diagonal tile up one level of field tile and worked out the location of the middle shelf of my niche. Also this allowed me to place the shower faucet handle at 46″ from finished floor height almost directly in the center of a field tile. With a little adjustment of my Diagonal tile horizontally, I was also able to make that look good and have some balance.
Appreciate all of your insight that you provide to us!
Thanks again,
Rick
That worked??? Well…that was a hell of a guess.
Just kidding, glad I could help.
Hi Roger,
Awesome site, thanks for sharing all this info with the world…!
Which of your ebooks do I need if I want to build a shower using Wedi board for the shower walls with the Wedi Fundo base for the shower floor?
(While fairly expensive, that seems like the most foolproof/least user error-prone method…)
Thanks again!
Hi Dom,
I don’t have anything for wedi, it’s not even available around here. While I have used it, I really don’t like to try to instruct on installation of products I don’t use regularly. The topically faced walls would be the closest thing I have, and most of the techniques in there work for wedi as well.
I built a Kerdi lined shower using your ebook as a guide on a cement slab with Durock walls and used Laticrete 317. I gave myself some room for error and overlapped the seams by about 3 1/2 inches everywhere I had a seam. When I did the flood test, water seeped under the seams all the way past the overlap. I could tell because I watched it get darker as the water seeped under. Now what do I do?
Hi John,
It should not creep more than about 1/2″. Did you smooth the seams together with enough pressure to push out most of the thinset? (you should have) How thin was your thinset? Did you get full coverage on the seams (you can see the color change in the face of the kerdi)?
Thanks for your response. I did smooth the seams to push out most of the thinset. The thinset was thinned so as to barely hold an edge on the trowel marks and I did get full coverage. I followed your instructions and the Schlutter videos as best I could.
I have since drained the water and am letting the seams dry. After 24 hours they are still wet underneath. After they dry, would covering the seams with Redgard be a fix for this leakage? I don’t care about warranties. I just want it to work.
Yes, that will work (redgard) just fine. Not sure what causes it, normally it will only wick about 1/2″ or so.
Thanks for the reply. I will move forward with the redgard on the seams.
One more question. I read that Redgard requires modified thinset and Kerdi requires unmodified thinset. I already have several bags of Laticrete 317. Since I am only doing the seams can I use unmodified over the Redgard?
Hi John,
Yes, you can use the 317 over redgard, it’ll work just fine.
hi Roger….
I’m new to this business. Supposed to be training myself to sell flooring!! been googling a lot and only find terms and d.i.y. tips…. what should i be learning. Any help will be greatly apreciated…
Thank you
Hi Jecca,
To sell flooring it would be best to start with the basics of what tile ratings and terms mean. Start with this: surface durability of tile
With putting in the topical drain after mudbed is sloped and pounded
in , would leaving a shallow ring to set it with heavy thinset mix work? Then Hydroban after all that done? No, don’t want to mess up drain or technique as to assure it works perfectly. Please let me know, though I have awhile to go before that.
Yes, that will work. You need to use a medium-bed mortar, though, not thinset.
Roger,
I have a question about installing my Kerdi topical drain(following your advice). I bought your topical waterproofing ebook, far more valuable than the 53 Million price tag
, and it is time to build the mud deck. The question is this, if I am installing the drain 3/4″ above the plywood, how do I “pound the hell” out of the mud to pack it down underneath the drain rim, giving it a solid base. Not totally sure that made sense…. 
I’ll be over here drinking a pot of coffee awaiting your vaulted knowledge.
Cheers!
Hi Rees,
Pound it sideways.
I attach the drain and pack the mud under the rim sideways with the styrofoam spacers still in place, then remove them and fill in the rest. You could also loosely pack mud around the cutout in the floor then set the drain down onto the pipe, banging it down as you go to pack the mud.
I just don’t really like pounding the top of a $100 drain.