Shower Waterproofing Manual
Not sure what type of waterproofing method you need? Not sure what’s available?? Is everyone on the planet trying to confuse you with different stuff??? You’re in luck!
I am now making available for the low, low price of absolutely free my shower waterproofing manual. It will explain for you, in simple terms and plain English:
- What methods are available
- How each method works
- The pros and cons of each
- How much time, money, and skill is involved
And best of all it will do this without attempting to diminish you with my absolute mastery and prowess of all the big tile and installation terms you don’t care about.
Of course it also contains a host of jackassery gems such as:
- Why my dog continues to burst into flames
- How much a wall weighs
- Fun facts about unicorns
- A little tidbit about the lawyer in my pocket
All that right there is worth the price! (It’s free, by the way, and that’s about what it’s worth) All you have to do is fill out the little form in the upper right box under the picture of the manual with your name and email and I’ll have the elves shoot it right to your emailbox. (Yes, emailbox is a word, I just made it one)
Fill it out and get ready for…
THE BEST EBOOK ON THE PLANET!!!!! 
And if I can’t get a hold of that I’ll send you mine.
.
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Hi Roger, the elves are still drunk. I’m trying to figure out the easiest way to add a tiled shower surround to an existing bathtub. The existing tub and drywall are in good condition, but I assume the wallboard is not waterproof. I’m hoping that your book will start me with a clue. I’d like to add/subtract layers in the proper order and prefer not to have to catch falling tiles as I shower. Since you know tile, pointers on lowest maintenance & easiest to keep clean materials would be much appreciated – teenagers use this bathroom, need I say more? Could you please send a copy of the free book? Many thanks!
Hi Roger,
Please review my questions from May 12th…
Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
Peter
Roger,
Really like the site and this seems to be a common question here. I have done some tile work around the house in the past only floors however. Will be starting to tile my shower in the next couple weeks. I am leaving the tub and removing the plastic surround and plaster walls down to the studs so I can see exactly what I have back there. House was built in the 40′s and no shower currently there. The long wall is an exterior wall and there is a window which is newer and I am leaving it there.
What I am trying to get a clear answer on is regarding vapor barrier, should I put something over the insulation? Or just put up the cement board and use red guard?
I will be putting in 2 niches as well so I am thiniking I will want the red guard for those at the very least. From what I have seen one bucket should be sufficent for good coverage as I only have approximately 75 sq feet.
Am I on the right path?
Thanks
Phil
Hey Phil,
You want either the redgard or a barrier – not both. With your situation the redgard would likely be a better option due to both the window and niches. One bucket should be enough.
Hi Roger,
I am renovating my ensuite… removing a tub from a 30″ x 60″ alcove, and putting a tiled shower in its place.
I’m looking at 2 systems for the base, namely Tile-Redi and Schluter. With Tile-Redi, I may have more work to do if the fixed 30×60 pan is too tight for the opening (it appears it would be 1″ too tight… I could push back one side of the alcove to accomodate this, but that’s potentially a lot of work for no good reason)… with Schluter, I’d only have to cut the styrofoam. For this reason, Schluter seems better suited to renovation work, whereas Tile-Redi would be well-suited to new construction.
Can you comment on these 2 approaches to the shower base? Is one any better from a waterproofing standpoint?
Thank you!
Peter
Hey Peter,
I prefer the Schluter system. Either one, correctly installed, is completely waterproof. Either one, incorrectly installed, is not. They both work. The schluter is easier to work with. You do need to cut each side down equally or you’ll have an uneven perimeter. In other words, if you need to take 1″ off, you’ll need to take 1/2″ off each end.
The tile-redi requires epoxy setting material to install the tile – it’s a pain in the ass.
Thanks Roger!
I have decided to go with the Schluter system. I have a couple more questions (okay, a lot more :-))…
1. The Schluter kit comes with a styrofoam curb. If I will be installing some glass door hardware into the curb, am I okay to be putting it into the styrofoam substrate (i.e. is that really strong enough)? Or would I be better off leaving out the Schluter curb and building a wooden curb?
2. My shower door hardware has a tube rail across the top, on which the glass door will roll. I am advised to ‘double-stud’ the alcove ends so as to give support for the tube rail. How is the double-stud to be oriented? My concern here is that the tube rail mounting screws could end up going right between the 2 studs, which wouldn’t be as strong as going into the middle of a single stud. I could rotate the double-stud combo 90 degrees, but then it might not come out flush with the rest of the wall studs.
3. When installing the pre-slope styrofoam shower base, how should I treat the space where the styrofoam butts up against the walls/curb? Firstly, should it butt up tight on all 4 sides or should there be a gap anywhere? If it’s butting up tight, do I need to apply thinset at that joint?
4. I plan to use Kerdi Board for the shower walls. Where the Kerdi Board is fastened to the studs, a Kerdi membrane patch must be applied with an unmodified thinset to waterproof the punctures made by the fastener. I understand that water passes through thinset. The thinset extends out beyond the edges of the Kerdi membrane patch. Why is there no concern here that water could pass from the thinset, in behind the membrane patch, and then along the fastener/screw to the studs?
5. Do you advise tiling out from the drain, in order to have a drain perfectly aligned with the tiles themselves (4″ square drain, 4″ or smaller tiles (TBD)), or is there a better method to achieve this alignment?
6. In what order should I tile the surfaces? I have to tile: bathroom floor, shower floor, shower walls, shower curb.
7. I want to put a solid narrow slab down as the top of the shower curb… granite perhaps. How will I fasten that? Just the same way as a porcelain tile, using thinset?
8. The rep in a tile store I visited last week told me that Schluter recommends only using unmodified thinsets with their product (so that the thinset can cure behind a waterproof membrane), but some tile manufacturers recommend use of a modified thinset for an adequate hold of their tiles. Have you ever faced this dilemma, and if so, what do you recommend as a solution?
Thank you Roger! Great web-site!
Peter
Great site-great info. Thanks.
Two questions: what is the shelf life of something like redgard once it’s opened? I’m planning two showers, but not at the Same time.
What kind of mortar would I use to make a shower wall using hand-placed smooth stone (‘pebbles’ about 1-1.5″) over cement board with redgard? The floor seems simple enough, but the wall would have sag and adhesion issues, I suspect. I’m not interested in paying $5-15/sq ft for premade.
Any thoughts would be great. Thanks
Mark
Hi Mark,
Redgard is normally fine for 9-12 months after opening in my experience. You can use any good modified thinset to bond your pebbles. If you want stuff that won’t slide you can get a non-sag thinset – the pebbles will stay where you put them if you use that.
Can a shower niche be married with the traditional water proofing method (plastic behind durock)?
I would imagine the niche would have to use redguard or kerdi? But what about the hole in the plastic?
Hey Jon,
When using the traditional method the perimeter of the hole that is cut out gets siliconed to the back of the backerboard. This creates a dam which water will run around as it runs down the wall behind the tile.
Redgard or kerdi is ideal, although you can use plastic behind it and fold it like the kerdi membrane using liberal amounts of silicone to seal everything. It does need to be overlapped correctly – upper portions over lower portions.
I think I understand. So, if I already have plastic behind the durock for the walls, and I want to cut a hole for a niche (in doing so I will probably cut the plastic behind it with out trying too hard thus compromising this water barrier). I can then create the niche per your info pages and waterproof it using redgard. And this should be OK even though there will be a hole in the plastic?
This is all hypothetical. I haven’t even started yet. So all my options are still open. I’m a little skeptical though that the brush on water barriers are going to stand the test of time. Can it really outlast plastic? How long has it been in use?
The plastic on the back of the backer needs to be siliconed to the back of the backerboard after you cut out the hole. You need to waterproof the hole which you cut out for the niche. Kerdi or redgard will work for the niche, but you still need to silicone around the perimeter of the hole you cut out of the plastic.
The brush on barriers are elastomeric membranes which, when cured, are essentially rubber. These membranes will outlast plastic by a long shot. They have been around for about 30 years and used regularly for waterproofing purposes for close to 25. They work well.
Thanks Roger.
Roger,
Do you have any tricks if the wall studs which will hold the cement board aren’t perfectly aligned/even? About 3/16 inch or less. I was considering silicone caulk but thought that would allow too much movement possibly. Next thought was grout but that might be more difficult to manage and I don’t know how it would hold. For some of the larger ones, wood paint sticks might work. But maybe you have an even better idea.
Jon
Hey Jon,
Use PL glue – like liquid nails. Just place a bead large enough to compensate for the unevenness, place the board up there so it’s solid and flat and just place one or two screws at the top – not all the way in, just to hold it there. The next day you can screw the rest of the board to the studs directly through the cured pl glue. What this does is fill any unevenness in the studs and creates a perfectly sized shim. The two screws hold the board in place as your ‘shims’ cure, then you can attach the entire wall – flat and solid.
Roger,
This is a great site. It has helped me tremendously, and thanks to you I have a little tiling experience now (small bathroom, large kitchen floor/backsplash, fireplace surround) and feel that I am now prepared to tackle the shower–or at least better prepared than I was before those other DIY projects.
It sounds as though your material of choice is Kerdi, but I don’t think I can part with that $2/sq ft. I am struggling with which method to use to waterproof the shower. The shower is only 3×3. I’m considering these 2 options:
1. Traditional shower floor with PVC liner with cementboard and RedGard on the walls.
2. RedGard the pre-sloped floor and cementboard walls.
I definitely feel capable of doing #1, and it seems as though this is a method which has stood the test of time. On the other hand, it seems that doing #2 would be less work, and I am already purchasing RedGard for the walls, so the extra cost associated with doing #2 would not be much for my small shower.
Thoughts?
If I decide to do #1, it seems like I would purchase the traditional shower manual here (http://floorelf.com/how-to-build-a-traditional-shower-for-tile-the-instruction-manual) and then read the instructions here (http://floorelf.com/installing-redgard-on-shower-walls-for-tile). If I decide to do #2, seems like I would purchase the topical waterproofing shower manual here (http://floorelf.com/liquid-topical-waterproofing-floor-walls).
Most of this confusion stems from the discussion in the Price section of your shower waterproofing manual (http://floorelf.com/waterproof-shower). I agree that Redgard is a lot more expensive than 4-6 mil plastic. But if $45 of redgard covers 110 sq ft and you put on 3 coats (an extra one in addition to the recommended 2 coats), that is ~$0.80/sq ft. For my small shower, it seems it is worth the small cost to just RedGard the floor too and save the time associated with cutting the PVC liner, another layer of mud, etc.
Thanks for your help!
Mike
Hi Mike,
The redgard would be a better option simply because it is a topical membrane and you only need a single-layer mud deck. Keep in mind, however, that if you choose to use redgard on your shower floor you will either need to utilize a topical drain such as kerdi (~$100) or a Laticrete Hydroban drain (~$75) or use the divot method, which utilizes a normal 3-piece clamping drain – but takes a bit more time. Not nearly as much more time as a double-layer mud deck, though.
The price section of my waterproofing manual is a generalization of price comparisons. In other words the individual products prices may not be exactly accurate (i.e. the $.80/sqft) but it is comparable in comparison to the other products ($.80/sqft liquid vs. $2.00/sqft. kerdi). I do not, and can not, know the exact prices in your particular area. If you just do the walls with redgard one gallon bucket will do it. If you do the floor as well you will likely need two one-gallon buckets – you can’t buy just enough for 9 square feet of floor.
KnowWhatIMean?
Keep an eye out in your email – I’ll send you some more information here in a few minutes.
Thanks for all the great info however I have a question regarding vapor barrier. Im building shower/tub on outside basement wall. The wall is insulated with 2″ poly foam board and r-13 batt. If i use plastic behind cement boar would that cause a double vapor barrier. Would it be ok to use roofing/tar paper instead.
Hi Pierce,
Roofing tar/paper is actually a better barrier than plastic. Yes, it will be fine to use that.
For clarification purposes: the double-barrier problem arises when there is a substrate sandwiched between two impervious barriers. i.e. a plastic barrier with cement board attached to it and redgard over the face of the board. This sandwiches the cement board between the two barriers – this is where problems may arise. Installing a barrier such as tar paper or plastic directly over another barrier, either the kraft facing over even a plastic barrier over unfaced batts, does not create a problem.
We have just purchased a great ruin in an old building, that was last renovated in 1958. We are keeping the old cast-iron tub, but there isn’t a lip, it just sits in place like a toad. How do we organize the substrate, membrane and tile for the surround? Cheri
Hi Cheri,
It depends entirely on how you are waterproofing your tub. If you tell me that, I can tell you how it’s done.
I am building a tiled shower where a bathtub
and plastic shower surround was. This is a manufactured
home, and the tub was only 54×27, so the shower
is going in that spot. The floor was rotten, and has
Been replaced with 3/4 ” plywood.. It’s impossible
to make it longer, because the hotwater heater is in
The spot directly in front of it, but I am adding 3″ to
the width. I have already framed it, and have purchased
the thin set, durock, the membrane, and the tiles.
Hi Roger,
I’m also having issues getting the free starter guide. (drunk elves, captcha doesn’t match…)
I was very excited to find this site. We have 4 people living in a 1.5 bath house. The (plastic?) surround above the tub is cracked at the bottom of both the front and back ends. I’m wanting to tear it out and tile it myself. My mother thinks I’m insane. (“what will you do with the kids? are you planning to take 2 weeks off work? you don’t know what’s behind there!”
)
I’m not afraid of DIY projects and have done many in the past from plumbing to drywall to wiring…. but I have heard some horror stories…. So I guess my question is – would a sane person attempt a retile under those circumstances if it’s not strictly necessary?
And is it necessary? If the walls were properly waterproofed, are these cracks really a problem? I’d like to sell the house at some point and the bathroom is a real drawback now…. but I could try to hack a fix with some superglue (it looks like previous owners tried to caulk it to no avail in the past).
Thanks,
Beth
Hi Beth,
If the acrylic surround is cracked then your shower is no longer waterproof. I DO know what’s behind there – nothing.
You have either plain drywall or just open wall studs. The acrylic surround itself is your waterproof barrier. Superglue will not work.
If you want to tile your shower – tile your shower. I think it’s best, but I’m biased. You will, however, need to do something since your shower is no longer waterproof.
Check your email for the manual.
Thanks! I’m off to the local tile store to price the job!
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