I get a LOT of questions from my readers about basic shower construction. I understand that my readers don’t consider this stuff basic and there’s no problem with that. The problem is that I end up answering the same questions over and over and over… So, to save what very little is left of my sanity (which is a number roughly equivalent to absolute zero) I will cover some basic things here so I can simply reply ‘read this’.
If you’ve been channeled to this page by one of my smart-ass comments please take no offense to it, I’m here to help. Please understand that I currently have over 12,000 comments (questions) on this site (seriously) which I’ve answered – every one of them. I’m just trying to make your life (mine) easier. I will continue to answer every question I’m asked, I’m just super cool like that. 
If, after reading through this, you still have questions feel free to ask them in the comments below.
You can also download my shower waterproofing manual which should answer a lot of questions and cover basic techniques and methods you may be confused about. Go ahead, it’s free. So without further ado (doesn’t even look like a word, does it?) let’s get on with it. (For all my readers who feel the need to correct me: I KNOW it’s actually ‘adieu’ – I was being facetious. Thanks. 
)
Leaks
First and foremost – tile is not waterproof. Grout is not waterproof. Adding sealer to your tile or stone will not make it waterproof. Your shower should be completely waterproof before a box of tile is even opened! No matter which waterproofing method you choose, proper substrate preparation is the only thing that will make your shower waterproof.
If you have a leak in your shower – stop using it immediately if at all possible. If that is not possible (it’s your only shower) have the shower repaired – immediately. If you see water leaking it is likely not nearly as much water as you don’t see leaking into your wall cavity and structural framing. By the time you ‘see’ most leaks the framing is normally already considerably compromised.
No, there is nothing you can put over your tile to make your shower waterproof if you have a leak – not even sealer. A tile or stone sealer is made to make your tile and grout stain-resistant, not waterproof. It does this by sealing the pores of the tile and stone to slow (NOT STOP) the absorption of liquid and prevent staining. It only means you have more time to clean up the spilled red wine cherry kool-aid before it stains anything.
Substrates
Drywall is not an acceptable substrate for your shower unless you are using Schluter Kerdi waterproofing membrane – that’s it. Cement backerboards are the standard and there are also other products such as waterproofed, gypsum based boards like Denshield and waterproofed, foam-based sheets like wedi or kerdi board.
Cement backerboards are not waterproof. They are water stable, which simply means that they will not swell or disintegrate when exposed to moisture or water – they won’t change size. But they are just like your driveway, they will soak in water, hold water, and dry out, just like your driveway when it rains. If using backerboards there needs to be a waterproof membrane utilized as well.
Membranes
If you are using a topical waterproofing membrane such as a liquid like redgard or hydroban, or a sheet like kerdi, do not use a moisture or vapor barrier behind your substrate. If you have a vapor or moisture barrier behind your substrate do not use a topical membrane on the front of it. This combination creates two waterproof barriers with your substrate sandwiched between them. any vapor or moisture trapped between them has absolutely no way to dissipate. This is lovingly referred to as a ‘mold sandwich’. It is not tasty. Use either a moisture or vapor barrier behind your substrate or a topical membrane on the face of it. One or the other – never both.
With that said, if you want to use a topical liquid such as redgard on the seams of your backerboard, after you tape and mud them, you can do so without problems. If your moisture barrier and backerboards are properly installed there is no real reason to do so – but if it will help you sleep at night go ahead and do it.
If you are using a topical membrane and you have an exterior wall with either plastic facing or kraft paper facing you need to cut slits into that facing before installing your substrate. If you do not it will create the aforementioned mold sandwich. Give moisture or vapor somewhere to dissipate.
Shower-tub transitions
There should be a gap between your tub or acrylic shower base and the bottom of your backerboard. If you are using a traditional barrier waterproofing method you do not need to do anything with this gap. Do not fill it with silicone! This will trap moisture running down your barrier and it will have nowhere to go. If you are using a topical method you can fill it with silicone if you want. If you are using liquid you should fill it with silicone. This creates a waterproof plane between your membrane and the tub or base so water or moisture ends up in the drain rather than in your wall.
When you tile you can tile right over that gap. You should not fill this gap with thinset behind the tile – it will crack due to movement. Your wall and tub or base will expand and contract at different rates – it will crack any cement-based product you place between the two. This includes thinset as well as grout. You do not need a solid backing behind your tile over this gap – it should be less than 1″ wide. You shouldn’t normally be walking on that tile in that particular spot. Yes, it can just hang there.
Grout
If your grout is cracking it is due to movement 99.9% of the time. Type ‘cracking’ into the search box up there and you’ll find in-depth explanations for your viewing pleasure.
If you have white, or lighter than normal grout when you’re finished grouting it may be efflorescence. This is mainly due to minerals in the water being left on the surface of the grout when the water evaporates. It is usually indicative of either incorrectly mixed grout or using too much water while cleaning the grout – not wringing out your sponge enough. This is normally only on the surface of your grout. Scratch the very top layer of your grout in an inconspicuous spot with your fingernail. If you have the correct, or at least a darker, color beneath the surface that is the likely cause. The easiest, quickest fix, provided it is only the very top layer, is to get some drywall sanding sponges and go over the grout lines very lightly. Just like burnt toast – scrape it to the color you like.
Corners and changes-of-plane
Caulk.
Disagree with me?
Like any other website I get my fair share of people who disagree with my methods or techniques – it really doesn’t bother me. I am more than willing to have a civilized, intelligent conversation about anything tile related. If, however, you simply attack me personally and act like an uncivilized ass I will call you on it – and not in a nice way. I write this blog in a particular manner, it does not mean that I take my profession lightly – I most certainly do not. If I wanted to be a pompous bastard I currently have 19 letters I can place after my name – all tile related. But I’m not a pompous bastard – you can just call me Roger.
If you are a contractor with a customer who has come here for information and I’ve told them you’re wrong – realize that the extent of my knowledge of that particular project is limited to what I’m told by your customer. It does not mean that I am ‘out to get you’ or anything of the sort. I normally limit my replies to those situations by stating the current TCNA and/or ANSI standards pertaining to what I’m told. If you disagree – please let me know in a civil manner, If you’re correct I’ll back it up – I do this everyday, too! If you’re an asshole about it expect the same in return (It’s the comment by ‘Kanela’ with the bold print before it) – and please have a thesaurus handy to interpret my reply – I’m a very well educated asshole.
That’s it for now. I will likely add to this post on a regular basis. If there is anything I’ve caused confusion with please, for the love of God, let me know. I can change this page since, you know, it’s my website and all. If you have any questions at all please ask them below – I’ll answer, really.
Know you are busy, so that is why no replies to a few questions. Or…your dog is sick.
I have reached a point in remodel of shower that I either get a wide sliding glass door (not a fan of those unless suspended from ceiling type)…or I find a shower window. Cutting down and squaring a 20×36″ or so marble topped area. Cannot find glass….3/8 – 1/2″ pencil polished edge to set in metal tracks. Any company I could order that from that you could tell me about. Seems every company here, the few we have, insist THEY have to do it to the tune high enough to make my dog go and hide.
Thanks again
Hi LaNell,
No idea at all, my shower glass guy is on my speed dial. I never deal with shower glass at all. And yes, I’m super busy, as usual.
I try to keep up.
Hello and thank you for all the great information. I am hanging 20×20 inch porcelain tiles in a shower and on the wall all the way up to 8 feet. I hear that DensShield is the best backer board but it looks too much like regular drywall. Considering the weight of these tiles, is this the safest backer board to use.
Also what do you think about a 1/2″ x 1/2″ trowel. And what thinset should I use. I am worried about safety.
What do you think about DensShield.
Thank you so much for all the help so far. I believe you do things the correct way and It makes sense. Thanks again.
Hi Nick,
Densshield is a very good product. The best? Well, not in my opinion, but there are about 100 different backers so it’s a personal thing. Vertical sheer stress is the type of pressure you’re worried about, and you don’t need to. Any decent modified thinset will work just fine. Your tiles will not fall off the wall. As far as the densshield supporting them – I install most of my tile over styrofoam walls (kerdi-board) with no problems, it’ll be just fine. And it’s nothing like regular drywall except for how it looks.
Hello again
I watched the installation dvd for the topical drain (regular round one) and was wondering what that sloppy dark mud type stuff was he set the drain phlange in :eek:. Dark thinset of some sort? Fat mud? I need all details as the dvd did not have captioning and that is a must for me.
(yes, did shoot off an email to Schluter about those of us hearing handicapped)
Thanks as always Roger
I believe it is still fat mud, haven’t watched the video in about 12 years.
Hi Elf,
I used your book for kerdi this weekend and overall things went well, the book and the site were a huge help. Thanks!
Ran into some trouble with the thinset drying too quickly on Hardibacker board. Like instantly. I was sponging the wall wet like a madman, and using a pancake batter mix. Installation on other surfaces (some drywall) wet much more as expected. Had to do half sheets, which was a pain.
Anyway, some sleuthing online, particularly GardenWeb suggests that many first timers have this problem with Hardiebacker board in particular. Their solution is to prime it with the primer for self leveling compounds eg Mapei Primer T. I have tried this as I’m done.
Anyway, a friendly suggestion to mention extreme dryness of Hardiebacker and unmodified thinset in your book? I wish I’d used Durock or, in fact, drywall
Hi James,
That’s a great suggestion! I’ll switch that up so people will know. Thank you! It’s one of those things I just don’t think about because I do it every day.
Sounds good.
btw, I’m totally blaming my phone for the spelling errors in that post
Should have been:
Installation on other surfaces (some drywall) weNt much more as expected
I haveN’T tried this as I’m done.
Roger,
I just finished my top shower base slab, unfortunately I have some slight dips. The slope is good. Can I level out those dips with the thin set when I start tiling or is there another fix I should do?
Peter
Hi Peter,
Thinset will work just fine.
As for a ‘primer’coat using Hydroban… Mix one part of it to three water and apply first as with the RedGard? Then troweling on the ridges then flat side to fill ridges?
Hi L,
Yes.
Rodger,
First time shower build….
Project: (new) 52″ x 70″ – curb-less shower with front entry linear drain (56″ drain due to shower bench)
Subfloor: 2 layers of1″x4″ in the entire bathroom. with 3/4″ ply on top. (long story…dont ask) every where but the shower where i have 1/4″ backer so i have a 1/2″ difference for slope & tile.
drain: i had someone make a stainless drain (fixed flange/drop in) for me ($100 compared to $600)
coverings: i have installed allure ultra hardwood (water proof plastic not wood) in the bathroom and tile pan, walls, ceiling in shower.
Questions:
how should i make the transition between the “laminate” and the tile, and achieve a water proof transition? the entry to the shower is 36″ along the 70″ side
My thoughts – marble threshold (easy to find) so that i will have about an 1/4″ lip for added protection against water even though i have about a 6″ back slope to the drain. then silicone the laminate to threshold joint – wife’s thoughts – NO, its ugly
Wife’s thoughts – DIY concrete threshold to match counters ? how does concrete hold up in showers?
waterproofing:
I want to use a fabric membrane on top of, Quick Drain, Quick slope panels. I have found many different manufactures and i am not sure which one i should go with. i would like to spend as little as possible to get a quality product. (as you can tell by my drain i dont like to spend but still want it to be right)
What do you know about Hydro Ban fabric membrane? it looks like it might be a new product. i have found it for a lot less than all the others ( $.99 /sf)
Also i have found that the sizes vary between the manufactures and even between the same products with different vendors.
Should i go with the widest rolls so that i have less joints or is the wider material harder to work with? (solo application)
I have even considered liquid but i just cant bring myself to making that decision after all the negative reviews i have seen. how ever it would save me on having to deal with corners at bench,niches,ceiling,floor, entry
Would i use thinset to adhere it to the drain flange or adhesive?
If i go with liquid how well does it adhere to stainless?
And one more kinda off topic….
i built my shower niches instead of buying the premade ones.
I routed 2 x ‘s for my frame and inset concrete backer and attached with screws. i have yet to see anyone on the internet do this. is there a reason why or will this work?
Sorry for rambling on, any advise would be much appreciated.
thanks and love your site.
Roger,
Ok, after reading your proper installation of concrete backer i see that it might be important that i explain the sub floor. the bathroom use to be a screened in porch that was converted into a bedroom by the previous owners. So it has 1x’s running perpendicular to the floor joist from the screen porch days. second layer is 3/4″ t&g pine running parallel with the deck boards…why they didn’t run them opposite to the deck boards i do not know. and on top of the t&g is a black rubber like glue/carpetbacking. i was hoping not to disturb the glue as i have read that there are such backings that contain asbestos… i was going to place the backer over it and screw, tape and mud the joints. now my questions are, are the 1x’s going to cause problems with movement and do i need to remove the black death in order to apply thinset and get the proper adhesion?
for covering up not fixing
ok, one last question…and i will quit being impatient and wait on the heavenly advise from the floor lord before posting another question.
order of install question.
Does the backer need to be on the walls prior to installing the pan or do i need to cut the backer for the walls to match the floor slope and install after pan is complete? The reason i ask is that i am installing a linear drain with a flange that is designed to fit under the wall substrate and tile so the edge of the drain matches the face of the wall tile. So if I install the wall backer first I will have to notch it so that i could fit the drain in. if i notch it, can i fill the hole with thinset flush with the backer then waterproof? man i need your books…i really love my dog
Hi Todd,
I think hydroban and hydroban adhesive or kerdi-fix will waterproof your shower best. Hydroban fabric also works very well. Width of rolls makes no difference. The transition you’re speaking of is purely a personal choice, marble and concrete both hold up well, but neither waterproofs anything. Liquid bonds extremely well to stainless. Your niche will work just fine.
Provided you get enough thinset beneath your backer you’ll be fine. It’s not there to bond to anything, it’s only there for support.
You can install the backer and floor in any order you want. If you notch it you can fill it flush with thinset.
I think I answered all of them.
Hi!
I am getting ready to tackle a bathroom renovation and we are taking the complete tub surround out to the studs. We have decided to use hardi-backer boards and seal with the fiberglass tape and mortar and will go over it with Aquadefense. The shower is on the exterior side of the house and even had a window in the middle of it, but has since been covered up with sheathing and plastic barrier and then siding. That is directly behind the back of the shower surround. You mentioned something a out cutting slits in the facing, can you elaborate?
Hi Toni,
You want to cut a slit in the facing between each stud bay. It is simply to let any excess moisture or vapor dissipate rather than trapping it between two waterproof barriers. Just take a razor knife and cut the slit from top to bottom just through the paper, that’s it.
Looking at the tub surround, you can see the 6 mil plastic between the studs and directly under the sheathing placed on the outside of the house. You are saying I need to cut slits in each of the spaces between the studs vertically the length of the plastic (6 mil), correct? We are only planning on putting the aqua-defense on the seams, will that make a difference?
Hi Toni,
Yes, all the way along the length. You need to us the AD over the entire shower, not just the seams. Hardibacker IS NOT waterproof.
We went with permaboard, do we still need to go over the entire board?
Yes, no brand of cement backerboard is waterproof. It’s water stable, which means it won’t warp, swell, disintegrate, etc. when wet, but water goes right through it.
Regarding schluter, what are your thoughts on a chemical thin set or a modified thin set and waiting for a period of time for the modified thin set to cure? I’m a homeowner and am working on a bath remodel and have time for the modified thin set to cure. I’m in no rush as the bath remodel has been on my “to do” list for 10 yrs. waiting a few more weeks for curing isn’t a big deal. Bath is 7’x7′. I’m planning to use schluter, regardless of its cost. I know either thin sets voids their warranty but hey, I’m the owner and just want a long term quality install.
Hi Ken,
You can use a modified and just wait about a week for it to cure if you want to. It’ll be fine, I do it all the time, too (just don’t tell anyone).
Hi Roger:
I stumbled upon this website with the hopes of finding an answer to a problem I’m having. First, I’m a renter. So that being said, I can’t invest (both physically/monetarily) into this project. I cleaned the grout on the back wall of my shower and noticed that the tiles seemed to be tipped out somewhat. They’re not loose or off the wall, but maybe this is an indication of moisture that got behind them. Anyway, I’m looking for an “safe” alternative to filling in this gap and preventing any more moisture, without using the standard remedies that come with so many health warnings. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Pushing 70years and doing this myself. Thank you for your attention to this. Bless you.
Hi Carm,
Unfortunately that is an indication that water behind the tile and grout is swelling the substrate and pushing the wall out. While the tile is still attached to it, the substrate itself is swelling from the studs. There is nothing that can be used to prevent water from getting behind the tile and grout. It’s normal and natural that it will do that, that’s why the substrates are waterproofed. As a temporary fix you could use regular silicone in the grout lines. It will slow the influx of water, but it won’t stop it. I would definitely bring this to your landlord’s attention as it will absolutely cause a lot of structural damage behind the shower wall.
Roger, Ok the Redguard is on the walls, tile is up and Polyblend non sanded grout is up as well. I still can’t decide if we should seal the grout and if so what sealer to use. The “interweb” just has too much conflicting info. So now the first thing my wife says is ” what does the Floor Elf say to do?” So Help. By the way, we both like your site and all the good info. Thanks.
Hi Steve,
If your grout lines are less than 1/16″ I honestly wouldn’t bother. Sealer is for maintenance purposes only, it makes it easier to clean your grout. With unsanded grout, however, it is dense enough that it rarely soaks in anything that will permanently stain it with regular cleaning. You can read all about sealers here: Tile and stone sealers. It comes down to personal choice, mine would be to leave it as is.
Thanks Roger,
I will go with you and no sealer. Grout is Polyblend Pewter, a dark gray. We have one problem, after we got it on the walls and it started to cure you can smell a “rotten egg” smell. Any ideas what would cause this? I saw on one of the boards, there were some problems with this but no remedy. Thanks again for all the info.
Yeah, I hate polyblend. It’ll dissipate after a few days.
Roger,
Prepping for a bathroom remodel. Going with glass arabesque/lantern mosaic on the walls. I noticed a few comments around the site about use of glass tile and how to prep the wall for best adherence, but can’t seem to find a concise statement about what to do with respect to the type of waterproofing chosen if that matters at all. For example, is there a preferred waterproofing method for shower walls when using glass tile (e.g. kerdi / kerdi board // hydroban)? Then for the method of choice, what’s the best way to adhere the glass tile?
Also, I notice you seem to be proficient in every waterproofing method. As I’ve watched your site over the last few years, it seems you lean toward kerdi board, but recently I’ve seen a few of your jobs posted where hyrdroban has been used. What’s your preference these days for showers?
Finally a floor substrate question when using ditra (and sorry for the long post): if final floor thickness isn’t an issue…after you have the double layer of plywood down over the joists, would adding a final layer of cement backer board prior to the ditra be useful? Does the thinset under the ditra bond better to the plywood or the cement backer? Thanks and great site.
Hi Ben,
The best option for all glass mosaic is hydroban. The reason being that schluter is EXTREMELY VAGUE on the method of glass over kerdi (or kerdi-board) and the fact that they want unmodified thinset. No glass on the planet can or should be set with unmodified thinset, it simply moves too much. With hydroban you can use modified thinset, and there is no vagueness whatsoever.
For most of my showers I use kerdi-board. It’s a speed thing, it’s simply faster and easier for me with most projects. If you can get the hydroban board use it – I’ll be switching as soon as larger sizes are available.
In my opinion there is absolutely no advantage to putting backer over a double layer floor. It adds no structural integrity at all. Modified thinset over plywood bonds equally well as unmodified thinset over backerboard. The bond is a wash, forego the backer, nothing to gain.
Thanks Roger
Will go to Lowe’s, where the Wi fi is strong enough to blow up my tablet to try again. Thanks for checking on that.
Oops… Finished the form, including CC#, for downloading etc books and lost Wi fi connection and no books. Now what?
Hi LaNell,
I don’t have any record at all either through my download server nor paypal of you ever purchasing a manual. You were not charged for anything so the transaction likely got voided when you got disconnected. Unfortunately you’ll need to go through it all again.
hi Roger, this is my first ?, I downloaded material from you and it has helped tremendously, however I don’t recall seeing in that material anything about how high to go from the floor of the shower with the hardieboard. when I dismantled the previous junk it was only 3′ high. Hence, the mold and mildew on the studs and the fact that there was no moisture barrier at all. I am doing the traditional shower and not the topical. Thanks for any help. Here’s a tip: don’t let Mercedes build your home. I’ll go look for some more chocolate milk while I wait.
Hi Jay,
The hardi should go to at least three inches above the shower head, with the proper barrier in place behind it, of course.
Hi Roger….
To anyone new here, you are on the right sight for the BEST guidance. Plus humor. Ignore 99.8% of the supposed pro contractors. Seeing their catastrophic work is why I have been a DIY’er gal for decades. And going over to help or to DO other peoples projects is good practice for my own.
I am still working at getting my ‘shower box’ walls level/squared/even. One does not think about tile until that is done. ( No, do think of trying to make tile look straight on walls that are NOT perfect. Scary! )But have two sheets of Durock up! Soon will order tileable pan after leveling hammered concrete slab.
Order Roger’s e book set. You can watch and read on your humongous TV step by step.
And I plan to take up donations to send Roger and family to Bermuda. He deserves it for puting up with our questions.They deserve it for putting up with him
Agreed on all points!
Especially the last.
Hi
Great and useful article
It is tough to decide how to start and what to choose as far as waterproofing is concern it is a bad ache.
Thanks
No brilliant Retort from me! If I were that brilliant I would have read your waterproofing manual before I tore out all that avocado green tile and moldy dry wall. I put up durock then took it down, then put up the plastic vapor barrier and replaced the durock. now I think I may have to take it down again because I think I may have cut off the plastic too short. Not sure of anything at this point! It looks so easy on TV!!!! My 60 year old back begs to differ!
Too late to suggest Redgard,Hydroban, etc. over Durock after moisture barrier is off studs? Read Roger’s detailed advice as to the best way.
Hi Roger,
Great site with lots of HELPFUL info! I am trying to do a shower with preformed pan in my basement. I was planning on doing a herringbone pattern with 3×6 subway tiles. My question is, will there be enough backer board to ‘grab’ onto the cut tiles at the bottom of the pattern where the gap between the backer and the pan is? If not, what would you recommend? I was going to continue this pattern along the bathroom walls to chair rail height….
THANKS!
Hi Wally,
I guess it depends on how big the gap is and how small the cuts are. If you have at least 50% of the tile bonded to the backer you’ll be fine in that spot. If not then I would tape and mud the backer all the way down to the pan (just extending the backer, not tying it into anything) with mesh tape and thinset, then tile over that.
I’m tiling a tub surround and half way up the wall for the rest of the room and I’m concerned about the transition from the tile backer board to the wallboard. The wall wants to be flat, yet the backer board has to be shimmed out 1/8″ or more to get over the tub tile lip as explained in your book. I am using topical board and an Americast tub which has a fairly thick lip. I will also be using an expoxy grout with 12″ tiles.
How do I deal with the transition from the shimmed wall to the non-shimmed wall? I don’t really want to tear out the rest of the room’s wallboard if I don’t have to, but the tile will continue out from the tub seamlessly to the half wall.
Would it be better to bring the backer board 1/4″ above the lip and overlap only the tile? I’m thinking this would be waterproof with the combination of topical board and waterproof epoxy grout. The small bit of unsupported tile shouldn’t be a big issue with 12″ time, should it? This sounds like what you advocate in your post above. If I do this overlap, then would I caulk the tile to the tub as in your manual, or leave it open as per your post?
On a related note, where would you start tiling? The tub is 14″ tall so that means a rather narrow 2″ strip along the bottom of the wall if I line it up with the tub lip (actually less if the wall tile sits over the floor backerboard and tile), so I’m thinking it would be best to line up the first whole tile over the floor. Would you start tiling the floor to get the wall to line up with it, or would you mark the expected hight of the floor on the wall (backer board, thinset & tile) and start on the wall?
Hi David,
Stop the backer above the tub lip and overhang the tile. That amount of space with a 12″ tile is no problem. You need to silicone the bottom and leave weep holes in the silicone. I would do the floor first.
That silicone application advice went over my head so far,, didn’t ruffle my hair.
Hi Roger, New homeowner and DYI couple. LOVE your site but unfortunately found it after we began what is becoming a slate tile surround nightmare. Removed old plastic surround that had a crack. Removed green board, dry and no water damage. Vapor barrier on exterior facing shower wall only (where fixtures are). It began by taking the advice of the Lowe’s employee, enough said. He initially had us install 1/4″ cement board. We caught on once the cement board did not match the walls. Back to get 1/2″. The vapor barrier installed by us was only completed on one wall (the exterior facing shower wall where the faucets are). This being told was the proper way from a local home builder we know. Cement board was installed, then the thin set, then the slate.We were assured that between the cement board, thin set, tile, grout and sealer that water could not get thru. We now know that we DO NOT have a waterproof box. We were also told by the employee to apply the slate corners with the same gap in the corners as the rest of the tile. I can now put my finger into the corners halfway to my knuckle. Now for the stupid question, is ANY of this work salvageable at this point? We want this to be right. We were so proud of this project and even signed off inside the wall before installing the hardie. Is there any way to salvage the slate tile and not damage the cement board? Re-use the cement board (if not, this is our 3rd cement board purchase for the entire project already). Or do we scratch up the supplies cost and start over. By the way, we have stopped at the slate on thin set stage. We have not sealed or grouted. Also, if we begin over, should we be sealing both sides of the slate prior to installing on the thin set?
Thanks so much and we are “on a break from this” til we can do it right
Trish
Hi Trish,
Unfortunately it doesn’t sound like it is salvageable. You MAY be able to get the slate off of the wall, but I doubt it. You need a barrier behind all the walls tied into the tub flange so it’s all waterproof (but you probably know that now). If you can salvage the backer you can use something like redgard over the face of it to waterproof it all.
Thank you, we are going to start over. How do you tie the plastic into the flange? Caulk? And what is the best way to seal the slate? We have a sealer and enhancer from Lowe’s by Dupont. If there is something you prefer, please advise. We like a wet look. There will also be a niche that I assume we would use the redgard on as there is no area to put the plastic?
Trish
You silicone the back of the plastic to the face of the flange. A microfiber cloth is usually the easiest way to seal the slate. Yes, redgard on the niche.
Hi Roger,
First, thank you so much for putting so much useful and specific information on your website!
I am doing a shower remodel and when I framed/backer-boarded one of the niches, I was left with 3.5 inches inside the niche, which is what I was expecting. However, I realized that the tile placed on the back of the niche (vertical surface) is supposed to rest on the sloped horizontal surface, and also that my horizontal bullnose tile’s lip is supposed to rest on top of the vertical wall tile that it meets. Said bullnose tile is 2 3/4″ wide. So, I now have roughly 1.25 inches (3.5 – 2.75 + 0.5 for the vertical wall tile & thinset) that I need to make up
. What would be the best solution at this point?
I am using Durock as a substrate. I was thinking about using the same mortar I used for the shower pan to thicken the back of the niche and make up the difference as I read that thinset should not usually exceed 0.25 inches in thickness. Alternatively, I thought perhaps I could attach 2 additional layers of 0.5 in. Durock to the back, but I thought that sounded especially questionable.
Thank you in advance for all your help!
Jason
Actually, I just realized that if we reduced the depth of the niche to 2.5 inches essentially (since the 0.25 inch thick vertical tile will rest on top of it), the niche wouldn’t be very functional as most items would be sticking out from it! So now I’m thinking I’ll use the matching 2.75 x 5.75 subway tiles to meet the back of the niche and trim with the bullnose in front. My question then is how I should cut it to make it look best? 1.25 inch bullnose, 1.25 inch subway tile, or meet in the middle somewhere?
Thanks again!
1.25 inch subway.
Hi Jason,
Two pieces of backer works just fine. You can build up as many layers of backer as you need, it always works.
Roger,
I have 25″ from the top of my 4.5″ listello to the ceiling. 5.75″ tiles. 1/16″ spacing.
Which is the best way to fit the top and bottom courses?
1) Trim both courses to about 3 11/16″
2) Leave the bottom course at 5.75″ and cut the top course to ~1.5″
Hi John,
The technically correct answer is to center your tile installation whenever possible. The realistically correct answer is whichever you (your wife) think looks best. I prefer the full tiles at the listello with cut ones at the ceiling. Some people like the centered look. To me the bottom cut row would look out of place in the centered option.
We have just tiled our shower & bathroom (over schluter shower kit), when it comes to the change in plane, do I grout tiles first then caulk the changes in plane and corners or vice versa? Also, what is your opinion on fusion pro grout? I have read some people having problems with it on shower pan with it feeling and looking like it was sloughing off. Should I use a different grout for the pan? We already purchased the fusion pro grout and matching non-sanded caulk. Thank you.
Hi Linda,
You can do it in either order. If you have time to let the caulk cure before grouting that is normally easier. I haven’t used fusion pro on a shower floor, I don’t use urethane grouts in shower pans. Unless it is approved for submerged surfaces (it will say so on the bucket) you should use a powdered, cementitious grout.
Hi Roger,
Newbie here…LOVE your site…already a wealth of info – thanks! We are doing a basement master suite. Our floor is concrete. Could you kindly answer a few questions:
1) After reading your guide I’ve decided to go with Topical waterproofing. I like the sounds of the Sheet Membrane, but fear that may be to difficult for a first time shower builder…thoughts and recommendations? Second choice would be Liquid or thinking of Faced membrane with liquid floor (I didn’t see this combo on your manuals – is this because it’s not a good idea)? Help!!
2) Will be building the shower directly on the concrete floor and want a bench. Do you recommend wood or cinder block? Should it be placed in the shower before or after the mud deck is laid?
3) For the bathroom floor tile…plan on laying 12 x 24 tiles. Can I lay them directly on the concrete floor or do I need to put down cement backer board first (if so, how would one go about this?)
Thank you in advance…trying to make these decisions so I know which manual to buy!
Kim
Footnote: question 3) would be for the bathroom floor, not the shower floor
Hi Kim,
1. Liquid membranes are easier than sheet membranes. You can do a faced wall with liquid floor if you want, nothing wrong with that at all. I don’t have a manual for that, but if you order the liquid walls and floors and shoot me an email I’ll send you the one for the faced walls.
2. Cinder blocks before deck mud.
3. You can install them directly to the concrete.