Elastomeric or liquid waterproofing membranes are one of the most convenient methods of waterproofing shower walls before installing tile. These membranes consist of products such as Custom Building Products’ Redgard and Laticrete’s Hydrobarrier and Hydroban and Mapei’s Aquadefense. I will refer to all the membranes as Redgard for the purposes of this post, but they all work nearly the same way.
These materials can be installed with a regular paint brush, paint roller, trowel, or even sprayed on. They are applied to your shower walls then tile is installed directly onto it. When I use these products I always use a cement-based backerboard as the wall substrate without a plastic vapor barrier.
It is imperative that you do not install plastic behind your walls since this would create two waterproof membranes with your substrate between them. Having two barriers this close together leaves open the chance of trapping moisture between them with no way for it to evaporate. This may lead to mold.You must also tape the backerboard seams with fiberglass mesh drywall tape.
The easiest way I have found to install Redgard is, after the walls are prepped properly, start with a paint brush and thoroughly coat all the corners and angles. The membranes are more the consistancy of pudding than paint so don’t be afraid to scoop it out to spread it. You should be used to it after a few minutes.
After all the corners are coated I use a paint roller and pan to cover the walls. Redgard is bright pink – I mean pepto-bismol pink, it almost glows in the dark. This is useful in that when it is dry it turns dark red. The other membranes are similar. Laticrete’s Hydroban, for instance, goes on light green and dries forest green.
Just thoroughly coat the entire inside of your shower until the whole thing is bright pink – enough so it can be seen from space. That’s it – go have an adult beverage until it dries. You must then do a whole second coat the same way. Make sure the first coat has fully changed color before applying the second coat. If you are using a roller Custom (the company that makes redgard) recommends that you roll on the first coat horizontally and the second coat vertically to ensure full coverage. (Thanks for that Davis)
Most of the product specifications for these materials state two coats to be sufficient, and it probably is. I normally use three coats. I’m weird like that. Unless you have a steam shower or something similar, two coats would probably be enough. It’s up to you.
These products shrink a bit as they dry so you must make sure that it has not shrunk enough to create holes or voids in places such as corners and seams. You need a full coating for the product to be effective. When you are finished you should let the walls completely dry for a day before tiling.
Your tile can then be installed directly onto your walls over the membrane with a proper thinset mortar. When these products set they will create a rubber-like coating on your walls that is waterproof. When used on shower walls it is a (relatively) quick, effective water barrier for your installation.
These products can also be used as waterproofing on your shower pans in leiu of a regular pan membrane. Make sure your specific product includes specifications for this application if you choose to do that. Check the respective website for your particular product. I do know you can do this with Redgard, Aquadefense, and Hydroban.
I also use these products for main or additional waterproofing on things like shower niches and concrete wall in basements, places where it is difficult to have a plastic vapor membrane behind the backerboards. Basically any place that does not have waterproofing between the tile and shower framing. I always have Redgard with me. The versatility of these products make them a integral part of my shower waterproofing toolbox.
The only drawback for these products, if you choose to look at it that way, would be the price. They are a bit expensive. You may be able to get better prices by ordering online but make sure you take shipping costs into consideration. You can get a gallon of Redgard online for about $45.00 plus shipping. That should be enough to do a regular tub surround. That is a five foot back wall with two 3 foot side walls. For larger showers you can also get a 3.5 gallon bucket.
Make sure to check the website for your product, they have a load of information for them. As always, if you have any questions feel free to leave a comment for me.
Need More Information?
I now have manuals describing the complete process for you from bare wall studs all the way up to a completely waterproof shower substrate for your tile. If you are tiling your floor and walls and using a liquid membrane you can find that one here: Liquid Topical Waterproofing Membranes for Floors and Walls.
If you are just tiling around your tub or pre-formed shower base you can find that manual here: Liquid Topical Waterproofing Membranes for Shower Walls.
Hi,
Your website has been a lifesaver for my husband and I. We’re redoing the bathroom in the house we just bought because the idiot who did it previously used sheetrock in the shower, leading to mold.
We’re planning on using Redgard as our vapor barrier and we just got the hardie board on the walls yesterday. My husband had to install new insulation because one of the walls on the shower is an exterior wall, and he installed R19 faced insulation with the paper facing the exterior.
I always thought it was supposed to be the other way around and so I did some searching online. I read somewhere that the paper acts as a moisture barrier and should be on the “warm” side.
But since we don’t want a double vapor barrier, (Redgard + Faced Insulation) should we used unfaced insulation instead? I really don’t want to take the cement board down, but I want to make sure this project is done right. It’s been a major pain the butt and I don’t ever want to do it again.
Thanks so much for your help.
Hi Christy,
You normally should use unfaced batts when using a topical membrane. However, since he installed them backwards it’s not going to create any problems. Just leave it like it is – you’re fine.
And don’t let him tell you he did it on purpose, either!
Thanks so much. I’m glad to hear that we won’t have to take down the cement board. Your site has been an amazing help. Someone else told us that the paper acts as a vapor barrier and when put up against the “cold” side of the house warm air from inside the walls meets with cold air on the exterior of the house and then forms condensation and leads to mold. He explained it as putting a cold glass of iced tea in a warm room.
I’ve noticed that one of the biggest problems we’ve faced while doing this project is that everyone has an opinion about something. Sometimes it’s hard to know what is the correct way. Does climate matter when it comes to this sort of thing? I would assume insulating a house in Alaska is much different than insulating a house in Florida. Our house is in New York, if that makes any difference. You’re sure the faced insulation won’t cause a problem? We can take it down if there’s even the slightest chance that we could cause a mold problem in the future.
If I ever have to do this project again I might have to burn my house down, change my name and move to Canada. (Just kidding, but you get the idea…)
On a side note, I was wondering if it was possible to apply TOO many coats of RedGard. (I want to make sure it doesn’t leak! Maybe I’m a little OCD…)
It’s all right – I’m a lot OCD.
Even when the insulation is turned around the right way there will still be warm air meeting cold air somewhere in the mix. The outside of the house has a vapor barrier wrapped around it as well. The structure is built to deal with these temperature fluctuations, it’s not normally necessary to compensate for them inside the wall cavity.
I live in Northern Colorado – so we have similar climates. I have never had a problem with faced batts in a wall. I oftentimes remove showers which have kraft paper on both sides of the insulation – they used to make them like that – and there was no mold in the wall cavity. I don’t see any reason it would cause a problem.
Ok, one more question and then I promise I’ll stop bothering you. When my husband and father in law cut the hardie board to put up in the shower they left about 1/8″ between the boards like you recommended.
On the other side their measurements were a little off so there is a much larger gap in between the panels of cement board. Someone suggested taping the seams with CBU tape and applying coats of Redgard directly to the tape to waterproof it, making sure that all the pinholes in the tape were filled with Redgard. Will this work? My father in law still insists using thinset and Redgard-ing over it, and when I tried to explain that the corners needed to be flexible he looked at me like I had three heads. So I did what I normally do and went on the internet to find out. It turns out a lot of people still use thinset in the corners. So who’s right? So confused…
Anyway, I don’t know if it’s practical to fill a 1/2″ to 3/4″ gap with silicone so if you have any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it.
You’re not bothering me – my dog – he’s bothering me.
Your father in law is correct – tape and thinset the seams, then redgard over that. If you don’t use thinset on the tape it doesn’t tie the boards together to form a monolithic plane – that’s the purpose of the tape.
The silicone in the corners can be done either way. Tape and mud is the traditionally accepted method, nothing wrong with it. I prefer to compensate for as much movement as I possibly can in the substrate – that’s why I silicone it. Let him tape and mud them, it’ll be just fine. And that gap is WAY to big to fill with silicone.
Ok, I lied. I have another question.
It turns out that the around the tub was not the only sheetrock that was moldy and rotten and at this point I am SO sick of seeing mold. There was blue tile in the shower and about halfway up the wall around the rest of the room. (It’s a very small bathroom, about 5’x7.5′).
Today we tried removing the remaining blue tiles in the room and found mold behind them OUTSIDE the tub area. Water must have been spilling over the sides of the tub or splashing outside the shower curtain because the first foot or so of sheetrock on the wall outside the tub is moldy. I don’t know how far it extends through the room.
I’m probably going to remove the lower half of sheetrock in the room and replace it. (This is becoming one hell of project…) What do you recommend replacing it with? Regular sheetrock? Green board? or Cement Board?
And how far do you typically extend the tiles past the tub? My husband wants to stop the tiles where the tub ends. Does it matter or is it just an aesthetic thing?
Ideally you would replace it with backerboard. I normally extend the tiles the width of the bullnose past the tub. The field tile is flush with the edge of the tub and the bullnose extends down to the floor.
Roger,
I was reading and question I have if redgaurd needs primer what is the name of primer for it and something about how to do mix with redgaurd or put on before redgaurd could you give me the pacifics.
Thanks for all your time and efforts
carol dawson
Hi Carol,
A product such as kilz would work, but the best primer is to simply mix one part redgard to 3-4 parts water.
I installed roofing tar paper on the studs to go behind the durock backerboard. I was then going to apply the Mapei aqua defense to the board is this ok?
Hi Darrell,
Nope, it creates a mold sandwich scenario – two impervious layers with your substrate sandwiched between them from which no moisture can dissipate. You want one or the other – not both. I’m not guaranteeing a mold issue, but I will say that with only one properly used waterproofing method you will not have mold. With two sandwiched like that you may or may not. I prefer not to leave that option to chance.
bought 3 jugs of the redgard and no where on the label directions does it say to thin down for primer…I also have read that we should do this, but its not on the instructions on the tub of the goo! what gives? Do we thin down for primer or not?
ok, so I am going to put in mud deck on Thursday as well as the shower curb. The A/C is not on at new house and it will be close to 100 degrees!
How do I keep the mud deck and the curb from drying to fast in such extreme heat? Do I cover them both with plastic? Got 2 days to figure this out!
thanks!
The best (and only) thing you can do is cover it with plastic. Short of cooling down the room, that’s it. Any tile product which requires curing should be installed in temps between 60 – 85 degrees. Over or under that the best thing to do is raise or lower the temperature.
Hi Chris,
What gives is that it is essentially a personal choice. The manufacturer won’t recommend anything that may open them up to liability. Why that would – I have no idea, you’d have to ask them that. Thinning it down for a primer on the initial layer seals the backer and prevents it from sucking moisture prematurely.
Roger, I have hardiebacker in my shower and am ready to apply red quard. Does the primer need to be three or four parts water to one part red gard?
Hi Scott,
I prefer a 3 to 1 mix for the primer, either will work, though. The purpose is to create a seal on the hardi so it doesn’t suck moisture out of the redgard prematurely.
Roger,
Just found your site today after 2 trips to HD and 1 to Lowe’s trying to hunt down Hydroban or equivalent. Thanks to your site, I now know the brandname (Redgard) carried at HD so I am well on my way to being able to waterproof my durock. One remaining question – could you help me understand what is needed in terms of tape? I understand I’ll need fiberglass mesh tape to cover seams between sheets but I could not find anything like this at either big box chain. Both carry, of course, regular CBU tape. Is this what I need? Something different? Thanks so, so much for all the great information. Eileen
Hi Eileen,
The CBU tape is what you want. It should be in the tile section or over by the backerboards in the drywall area. It is alkali-resistant mesh tape that looks just like drywall fiberglass tape except it doesn’t disintegrate from the alkali in the thinset.
Thanks – got back to HD today and found it.
I think I got lost in the mix! simple question for ceiling tile. Do I screw 1/2 durock to the studs or add plywood to the ceiling then the durock?
Hey Chris,
Just screw the durock directly to the joists. No plywood. You didn’t get lost in the mix – you got put into the line. I get a METRIC SHITLOAD (that’s a lot) of questions and emails every day which I answer. Sometimes it takes a while – normally directly proportional to how much beer is in the fridge. More beer = faster answers. I’m almost out of beer currently.
lol..thank you for all your advice and wisdom..yeah I understand the metric ton of bullshit! Remember I am a doc..primary care..and trust me when I say this(health care reform..aka obama care) is gonna get worse! Anyway…I vote for the man not the party…just saying I understand what you deal with…but dang man you keep on top of it!
ok..so I have a question on the shower niche…is it possible to build a BIG niche..meaning cut out the 2×4 between the 2 other 2x4s..giving me roughly 29-30 inches wide. I will brace the top and bottom with 2x4s. make a box…I think I can do this (know I can)..but want your input….so the niche will hold shampoo..soap…razor..beer can….maybe a rubber ducky! I have to finish installing the durock to the ceiling this week end and then tackle the shower niche…I want to get this all done before I put down the final mud deck and curb..trying to prevent damage!
As long as you have proper blocking and support for the studs that you cut out – and it is not a load-bearing wall, you can make your niche as large as you want.
Roger,
How do you seal around the whole in the backerboard for the shower head, control valve and spout? Do you just make the whole as small as possible and cover it with redgard? Will it adhere that way?
It seems like this might be easier using redgard, but how would you do it if you’re using a liner behind the backerboard?
Thanks for the help!
Mike
Hi Mike,
Silicone. If using a topical membrane place a bead of silicone around the cutout as you set the tile and sandwich it between the tile and membrane. With a traditional barrier you can silicone the membrane to the back of the backer around the perimeter of the hole. Both of these create a dam around the hole which water will run around as it runs down the wall.
cut the dam corners like you said…can i use redgard on the dam?
Hey Chris,
Like I said…where? I have no idea what statement you may be referring to. I’ve told over 9000 people (seriously) to do at least that many things on this site, I’m gonna need a bit more reference than that.
If you are (hopefully) referring to my tutorial on how to create a shower floor then yes, you can use redgard on the dam if you want to. Provided you have it wrapped and your dam corners installed correctly, though, there’s no real reason to. Won’t hurt anything.
If you are referencing a different or particular statement – please let me know which and where it is so I can more accurately answer your question. If it is a question or statement another reader made you can click the little ‘reply’ link below it and it’ll show me right where it is.
Roger,
Sorry I took so long to get back to you! I just looked at your site and found your reply! I didn’t even know you replied! Ok, yes I am going to buy your book! I can’t wait! I have read and re read every topic you have posted…might have missed some..I am a DIYer…busy during the day and trying to work on house in evenings and weekends.
Ok..So update. Pre slope is in…looks good..can walk on it without turning into sand! Very solid…I used your advice on mixture! I put in the oatey pan liner after running it thru the dryer to get the dang wrinkles out! Folded the corners, cut the liner like you said..used the oatey px15…then tried the balloon test..failed…almost got it once..had water in and the damn (excuse my fench) ballon slipped out and I got ALOT of water in my basement!
yes, p trap is not hooked up yet and have unfinished basement so I have access to underneath…so I got an plug from local lowes..put it in drain from the bottom and refilled…bottom line is tomorrow night it’ll be 72 hrs and no leaks
Ok..my real question…I wanna use either redgard or hydro ban…I live in rural Missouri ( yeah we drink a lot of beer here!) I looked on line and holy sh**! Hydro ban is over $300 for a 5 gallon bucket! $70 for a one gallon bucket….redgard is cheaper at $45 per one gallon bucket….WOW
I think I get from your comments that both are the same quality? So why the heck spend that much for hydro ban? (BTW the plug I bought from lowes cost 2.50..no $75 inflatable thing!)
I am thinking of getting a couple of gallons of the redgard and use it…I really would love your advice here! I will take some pics and post em here so you can see what I am doing…I’m gonna buy your book now!
Chris
p.s I am using the goof proof system for the shower…had a few small issues with the pre pitch and mud deck..very small…thin set the defects..all is good…Don’t hate me for cheating using this system!
also just noticed the comment below that will notify my of follow up comments….forgive me..I had a few(alot) of the adult beverages when I wrote last! 
Hey Chris,
For most DIY’ers the redgard will work just fine. The Hydroban is much easier and quicker to work with for pros (less time between coats, etc.). For me it’s worth every penny. For your shower a couple gallons of redgard will work just fine.
Don’t forget to hook up your p-trap before you take a shower.
thanks on the p trap tip! I can afford the hydro ban…shower has two 8 ft walls and a 5 ft half way between the shower and built in tub..will a gallon of hydro ban work or buy the 5 gallon? I don’t know how you keep up with all the questions you get!
not sure where you are at, but be sure to get some sleep and keep posting the good stuff! I am a doc in a very small town and have been on phone with hospital and pts for the last 30 mins..I’m now gonna buy that book!
I would buy two one gallon. That should be enough. I buy the five gallons and get about 2 1/2 showers out of it.
Roger,
In a previous quetion, you said don’t put redguard on a mud pan that already has a waterproof membrane installed. I have just done that. Three coats on the backerboard walls and three on the base. Should I sand the redguard off the base or leave it alone?
Hey John,
It really needs to be removed if you have a three-piece clamping drain with weep holes. You have open holes between your two waterproofing layers with no way to dissipate – that’s never any good. You can likely run a razor knife around the perimeter (about two inches away from the wall) and scrape it off with a razor scraper. You can float out any imperfections in the top slope with thinset once you’re finished.
OMG. I’d rather have two root canals and a colonoscopy than scrape that off again. What a job!!
Well, take comfort in knowing that your walls are solidly sealed.
Hi Roger, All good information, but your last statement utterly confused me: “You can install RedGard on nearly anything and tile over it provided it is not inside the shower or any wet area.” It seems to me that the very purpose of RedGard is to waterproof a wall surface before tiling (in a shower, etc.)! On April 30th you told Steve (regarding installing tile in the middle of a shower wall) “Install it (thinset) directly onto the RedGard on the wall and install tile over it.” I am confused… can I RedGard my cement board walls and drywall ceiling in my shower (with no other vapor barrier) and tile over it?
Thanks,
Tom
Roger, I’m talking about your April 16th reply to Steve. Hadn’t previously looked at the date.
Tom
Hi Tom,
Why are you utterly confused?
The statement ““You can install RedGard on nearly anything and tile over it provided it is not inside the shower or any wet area.” was in regards to a proper substrate for the redgard. Steve asked about installing it on both his ceiling with drywall and beadboard around the bathroom in the dry areas. The purpose of redgard is to waterproof your shower, but it absolutely needs to be installed onto a proper substrate (being either cement backerboard or a mud wall – NOT drywall or beadboard) inside a shower. Outside a shower you can install it on anything and bond tile to it – the substrate behind it is not an imperative part of the waterproofing ability, since it is not needed outside the shower.
The comment was in regards to proper substrates – not the viability of redgard in a shower. You’re just fine installing it on your backer in your shower – it works very well.
Hi Roger,
Would you mind just verifying that even with redgard you use silicone on the hardibacker at the corner change of planes on the walls ? And I have a wooden bench framed up and covered with hardibacker, which is why I am using redgard (instead of something behind the hardi). I had assumed that I would tape the bench joints and then redgard the whole thing. But your posts indicate that I shouldn’t do that, but should instead silicone the corners, both inside and outside corners. The redgard will stick to the silicone in the corners? What about if I tape and thinset the bench corners, then redgard it all, but then use silicone for the the tile change of planes instead of grout?
Great web site, great book on traditional showers.
Thanks,
Chris
Hey Chris,
Yes, you want to silicone those changes of plane. It allows the walls and bench to move in independently. The membrane will not adhere to it very well, but it will fill any small gaps you may have missed. If you tape and mud them the walls will still move in different directions but there will be no compensation for it. You can tape and mud them if you want – but silicone is a better option.
Help Rodger. I’am redoing the tube/shower walls in my bath room. I didn’t do any research before I started the job. Removed the old wall sections that needed to be replaced and put up green board. NOW I’am online checking out how to tile the walls. Well I should have been ONLINE before I started this job!! My question is can I use Redgard over the green board before tiling the walls or do I have to take the green board out and use cement board with plastic sheeting behind it? Thanks Sam
Hey Sam,
Unfortunately that greenboard needs to come out. You can use cement board with either a barrier behind it or redgard over it.
While redgard is waterproof, it is not entirely vapor proof. Water vapor can still get through it in certain situations and once it gets to the greenboard you may begin to have problems.
Roger,
I’m getting ready to tile my shower for the first time. I’ve got a pre-formed plastic shower pan and the walls are all HardiBacker. I have been planning on putting up RedGuard (as the walls are already up, and I don’t have a membrane of the other side – which I hadn’t planned doing until reading your site and coming to the realization that saving 45 bucks on a gallon of Redguard isn’t worth mold/deterioration issues down the road).
My Question(s) is really about the order or operations… I haven’t taped the seams of the Hardi-Backer yet – should I tape then paint, or paint then tape. Also – I have about a 1/8-1/4″ gap between the plastic base and the hardiboard – should I tape that seam as well?
Thank you for your site, I’ve already learned so much and it has given me the confidence to actually give this a try!
Chris
Hey Chris,
Install silicone in the corners and down where the walls meet the tub, then tape and mud your seams (on the same walls – in the same plane). Once all that cures install your redgard.
My tile installer installed the shower pan liner but cut it short in some crucial area’s in the shower, he covered the corner bench but the liner ended at the back edge of the bench and did not run it 6″ up the wall or sides. He does have Red Guard waterproofing on the quote and assures me that the backer board, taping the seams and using the red guard will make the shower water tight? I feel very uncertain of this and feel that it will leak around the top of and sides of the bench water will run under the liner. I have asked him to patch the floor with additional liner but I am worried about water penetration around the bench.
He also only has 1 gallon for 227 sq ft shower walls and 28 sq ft floor plus a tub deck 74″ x 49″ with oval tub if it needs 2 coats is this enough? should we use Latacret hydorban instead of red guard? thank you for you help
Hi Melanie,
Hydroban is a better product than redgard in my opinion – but either work fine. Why is he installing redgard on the floor as well if he already has a liner in it??? DO NOT DO THAT! It creates a double waterproofing layer which can lead to mold. If there is a liner do not use a topical. If he uses the redgard or whatever on the walls and paints it all the way down to the floor the bench will be fine. The amount needed depends on how thick it is applied.
Roger,
Thank you.
Would you recommend 2 or 3 layers of the waterproofing? I will ask the tiler not to coat the pan liner I do not know if he intended to.
Can you patch pan liners successfully so no leakage occurs? or would it better to have the cut short one replaced entirely?
thanks
It depends on how the installer is applying the membrane. The number of layers are not as important as the proper thickness. You can install three 1/32″ layers and still not be as thick as two 1/16″ layers.
You can patch liners successfully but if you are referring to your bench as long as the redgard is installed over it and down to the shower floor you don’t need to worry about patching it there – the redgard waterproofs it.
Hello,
I have a waterproofing question. I am building a custom tile shower. Do I need to put a vapor barrier behind the durock backer board or can I use something to waterproof the front of the backerboard and then place the tile directly to it. I’ve read mixed reviews, some say you should, others say you don’t have to. I’ve looked into the kerdi membranes, red guard, tar paper etc… which one is the best?!? One guy that works at lowes says the ultraflex 2 (polymer modified) is good enough to create the waterproofing I need.
Thanks
Hi Jarrid,
You need waterproofing of some sort in your shower – ultraflex 2 IS NOT IT! (That guy’s a frickin’ idiot…).
There is no one ‘best’ solution for every shower, it comes down to a lot of different factors. If you go here: and download my free manual it will walk you through each, describe how they work, and help you decide which is best for your shower.
Go back to lowes and smack that guy in the head for me, willya?
I want to put a tile surround in the bathtub. I put up 6mil plastic with staples and also cut out for the niche. On top is hardibacker with the seams sealed with thinset mortar and fiberglass tape. The 6mil platic has a few tears and the cuts I made to fit in the niche. Should I put some red guard in the niche? or anywhere else? Do not want to create mold sandwiches, but do need water tight surround. Thank you
Hey Britt,
You need to cut the plastic around the perimeter of the cutout and silicone the face of the barrier to the back of the backer. Then yes, you need to use redgard or some other type of membrane in the niche to waterproof it.
Roger
Just a couple of quick questions
First I am putting a band of mosaic glass tile in the middle of the shower wall and I’m wondering if I should or could use a white thinset (if they make it) for the glass tile instead of the basic gray (gray may show through).
And then do I apply the thinset directly to the Redgard membrane on the shower walls or to the tile (I’m worried about cutting or scarring the membrane with the trowel.
Steve
Hey Steve,
You can – and should – use white thinset. Install it directly onto the redgard on the wall and install tile over it.
Roger,
I will be tiling a bathtub surround that is also a shower area with 3×3 tiles in 12×12 sheets over a tile backerboard, yet to be purchased, coated with redguard (that I already brought) and my question is what is best for sticking the tile to the wall mortar or the premixed paste/adhesive stuff?
Also I will be insulating outside wall using unfaced fiberglass and if I understand correctly I am not to use a vapor barrier behind the tileboard coated with redgard which makes sense, but what about fom the tub lip to the floor where the insulation will be exposed, should I just use plastic/poly vapor barrier from this point down? I live in Wisconsin so you get an idea of temp fluctuations.
Do you have any preference for tileboard/backerboard for walls in this situation?
Thanks in advance!
I really appreciate any advice and help!
Hey Deuce,
Any good modified mortar will work fine. I prefer laticrete product, but versabond from home depot or mapei ultraflex from lowes will work fine as well.
You can (and should) cover the wall cavity from the tub lip down with poly sheeting.
Thank You for your advice and help!
I can get the mapei ultraflex from Menards it looks like, but apparently there is an ultraflex 1 and 2. Is the 2 better for this application? Its about double the price, but that does not matter, I only need 1 bag. Also would I use a V notch trowel to apply this so I dont get mortar oozing through the grout joints or would I use a 1/4×1/4 square trowel like the floor?
Once Again, Thank You!!
I hope I will run out of questions soon and stop bugging you!
I just ordered and downloaded your tile tips ebook, have found some great tips already and have only started reading it.
I may have found some of the answers I need while reaing the ebook and searching your website…
Please correct me if I am wrong!
I do not use a V notch trowel for wall tile, instead I use a 1/4×1/4 with the Mapei Ultraflex 3 I got today. I got white at the advice of sales dude at Menards as that is only color they had on hand plus I will be using light almost white color travertine inserts in the shower and on the floor. I will use same mortar on floor.
I picked up R-13 kraft faced insulation for the 2×4 walls since it was on sale, now all I have to do is either cut slits in paper face behind redguard area and leave paper with no slits in from tub lip down, or just remove paper face all together and just put the poly from tub lip down.
Lots of great tips in your tile ebook, I picked up a grout cutter for any mortar that ends up between the tile joints prior to grouting.
Thank You for taking the time for all of your advice and for this website!!
Hey Deuce,
Sorry, day job and all.
Yes, the 1/4 x 1/4 trowel with white thinset is correct. Cut the insulation and install it backwards from the tub lip up (with the paper in against the outside of the house) and the right way around below the lip of the tub.
You are da man! I know you work a day job also, which amazes me that you have the time to repond to all the questions here! (many from me
)
Roger thanks for the quick response a couple more in your manual you mention only 3/4″ at the drain for the single topical deck and you use backer board on the curb instead of mud I just want to make sure of this as I am a big boy (300+ Lb’s) and want to make sure that I build it to hold up to my big ass.
The compression ratio of deck mud is upwards of ~800 – 1200 psi. So unless the bottom of your foot is only 1/4″ wide (i.e. you are a pirate and do, indeed, have a peg leg) it will handle your ass just fine.
(Thanks for the candor and the laugh!)
In your Topical book you list several different ones in order of your preference. The Lowe’s in Oregon carries a LATICRETE® WaterTight and this doesn’t need fabric do you know this product? http://www.laticrete.com/homeowners/products/waterproofing_anti-fracture.aspx
Hey Gem,
It is *essentially* the retail/consumer version of hydroban. The differences are such that in a regular application such as yours the only real difference you’ll notice is the amount of time needed for a flood test. I can’t remember what it is with watertight but it will say so on the bucket. It’s good stuff – use it if it’s readily available to you.
hey Roger a few more issues bouncing off my thick scull….first of all I called laticrete to ask about the difference between the water tight vs the hydro ban…….not that I didn’t trust you, I just had to know. he said it was a heaver duty and the extra testing it has to go thru for the certifications is a large part of the price not to mention the cure time which is more important to those of you doing this for a living that it is to me. I also mentioned while they say you don’t need fabric I was thinking of just doing the changes in plane and was having a hard time finding the fabric and stucco isn’t that popular in Oregon rain so what about joint tape. he said definitely not to the normal tape but the alkali resistant would be ok but stopped short of a recommendation. I was thinking of doing a corner bench do you have a post on this also I was thinking of getting 16 x16 x 4 blocks and cutting them in half and stacking them (mortar) is this dumb? could I just tile to them or cover with backer board first? thinking about tiling at the curb is driving me nuts I have gone thru numerous scenarios in my head probably all wrong….any thoughts?
Alkali-resistent mesh tape will work fine. I do not yet have a post about benches – cinder blocks work fine. You can install tile directly to them if you want.
Not sure which scenarios or problems with tiling the curb you may be having so it’s difficult to have any thoughts at all about it.
Whattsa problem?
Well I guess I should say the whole door area. the shower rough in is 41″ x 78″ I have two shower heads one on the same wall as the door about 2′ away this head should point away from the door if I can train the wife (hardest part of the project) and one on the far end (not sure my water pressure is good enough for both at once but will deal with that later) I am hoping not to need a door as it is in the far end of one of the long walls and I have blocking in case I end up needing one down the road. (when I give up on training the wife) As for the curb all three sides of 2 x 4s’ with backer board and Topical and I was thinking I would use the same tile as I do on the floor (yet to be determined but am leaning towards the small ones that come on 1×1 mats) wrap up and over (I know I cant wrap those but you get the Idea). I am doing tile in the bathroom with bull nose around the edge on the walls and not sure how to transition to that if the heights are different (I don’t know the curb height yet). As for the door jams, backer board but the outside wall is drywall and I was going to use corner bead there I have metal not plastic before I saw you recommended plastic in another post but as I hope not to need a door don’t expect much water there your thoughts? the wall tile would just wrap onto the jam BUT that leaves an unfinished edge and since this will be 4 3/4″ to 5″ . I thought about bull nose along the outside walls but thought the door might just look like a big picture frame??? Also thought of bull nose flush with outside drywall but 3 1/2 doesn’t cover that so maybe cut tile and bull nose to split the difference so they are even? (2 1/2″ each piece) what is commonly done or your suggestions? Also one a new question I have green board on the ceiling since I wasn’t going to tile it? it is a 9′ ceiling and no drops in the doorway so fan in bath will help clear out steam, hope this is ok and if so how do I finish this seam between backer boare and green board? just caulk both backer board seam and tile at change in plane?
I normally cut the bullnose down to half the width and place them back to back. Be sure to take into consideration the thickness of the jamb with the tile installed on the inside wall – it’ll be more than 5″.
You can either silicone or tape and mud the transition between the backer and the greenboard.
Roger
I’m ready to tile. Should I tile the floor in the shower first and then the walls?
Or does it make any difference? I’m a little worried if I tile the floor first that I will get thinset all over my floor when I do the walls……
Steve
Hey Steve,
It makes no difference at all. I prefer the floor first, then the walls. But it’s a personal opinion. You can always cover up the tile on the floor if you do it first – or work cleaner.
It doesn’t matter, though.
Roger
I’m back on my project again
I’m curious if I could or should put Redguard on the ceiling of my shower – it is sheetrock that I’ve already painted with Kiltz, but I’m wondering if a coat of Redguard would benefit me?
Also, I have a beadboard around my bathroom and I want to know if I can put Redguard about an inch up the beadboard to sort of put a waterproof membrane all around. I guess my main question is can you put Redguard on sheetrock, beadboard, etc? And finally I have a half wall of glass block that I am installing – I have hardiboard as the base – can I put Redguard down before I set my first row of glass block with glass block mortar?
Hey Steve,
Yes, you can redgard the ceiling. The top of your shower gets a lot of water vapor so waterproofing it never hurts. You can install redgard on nearly anything and tile over it provided it is not inside the shower or other wet area. I would skim-coat the redgard beneath the block with white thinset before installing the block over it just to ensure that the red does not show through.
Hello Roger,
I created a mud pan with a pvc liner with the specifications you provided in your posts. I have a question regarding whether I can redgard the top mud layer of the pan for extra protection. Would that be a good idea or will I be creating a mold sandwich?
Hey Mo,
You have the possibility of a mold sandwich. Provided your deck is correctly built you don’t need any extra protection. It often creates more problems and solves none.
Roger,
I’m considering using Redgard instead of a PVC liner in my dry pack shower bed. If so, do I still build it as you described with a prepitched bed, Redgard installed of liner followed by second layer of dry pack? Or can I do one layer of dry pack, Redgard and tile?
Thank you!
Hi MJ,
Yes, a single-layer mud deck with the redgard. Keep in mind that if using a regular three-piece shower drain you will need to tie the redgard into the weep holes at the bottom flange of the drain.
Thanks for the help. Can you explain what you mean by tying the redgard into the weep holes?
Weep holes sit below the top of the drain – made to drain water which reaches the liner under a mud deck. They are around 2″ below the top of the drain itself. If you simply paint redgard over the deck to the sides of the (top of) the drain you’ll have open weep holes beneath your waterproof layer – defeats the purpose. You need to either use a topical drain like Laticrete hydroban drain or a kerdi drain, or you need to utilize what is called the divot method where a shallow crater is left in your deck mud around the drain, the redgard is painted over the deck down into this crater to the weep holes, the crater is filled with deck mud and your deck is tiled. This allows the waterproofing to tie completely into the drain and have everything waterproof.