And the rest . . . 
Once you have your entire perimeter done you simply need to pack deck mud into the rest of the base from the perimeter to the drain. Once again – beat the hell out of it. Seriously, pack it in there really well. The more dense your floor is the better. You need to ensure that the line of the floor is straight from the wall to the drain all the way around without any major humps or dips. It takes time and patience – use both. This step is critical since this is the substrate your tile will be installed upon.
Once you get the remainder of the deck mud packed into the shower and have it correctly packed and leveled just let it set for at least 12 hours, 24 would be better. Really, leave it alone. There is something about a freshly packed mud bed that makes people want to pick at it – it’s alluring – and a bit disturbing. But you need to leave it alone. So quit poking at it.
After it sets for about 12 hours you can fine tune it, so to speak, if you need to. Any un-flat spots can be scraped, rubbed, or sanded down to flatten them out. You can use regular sandpaper for this – really. Just make sure you have a flat surface from the wall to the drain. FLAT – not level. You want this surface absolutely flat.
If you have not yet done so you can now install your moisture barrier and backerboards. Now that you have a large waterproof box you are ready to install your tile and make it look all pretty. The hard part is finished. As with any proper tile installation the underlying substrates are the most important. Take your time with the preparation, it is imperative. Without proper preparation any tile installation is doomed to fail.
And your dog may burst into flames.
For detailed information about how to create your curb and tile substrate for it read this: Creating a curb for your shower.
Need More Information?
I now have manuals describing the complete process for you from bare wall studs all the way up to a completely waterproof shower substrate for your tile. If you are tiling your walls and floor you can find that one here: Waterproof shower floor and wall manual.
If you have a tub or pre-formed shower base and are only tiling the walls you can find that one here: Waterproof shower walls manual.
Hi Rodger,
Quick question, before putting up my durock I put a plastic vapor barrier up. No insulation in the shower area because they are inside walls. Can I still red guard my walls? Or will this cause what they call a mold sandwich. also do you recommend using red guard on a traditional shower base? Or will this defeat the purpose of the weep holes?
Thanks Paul
Hi Paul,
Either the plastic behind or redgard in front, never both. If you have a traditional floor do not put redgard over it, same reason.
Hi Roger, Thank you for all the info! Question please regarding tile on the shower floor. We are doing a flush-to-floor/barrier free walk-in shower in our small bath (5’widex7’long). We wanted to install porcelain tile 12″x24″ running the length of the floor into the shower and continue up the wall. With a slope of 1.5″ running the span of the 5′ would this pose a tile install issue? Thanks again!
Hi Matt,
It’ll work just fine provided you use a linear drain so you can have a flat (not level
) plane for your shower floor.
Roger, I just now stumbled across this site as I sit here with a tiled (but not yet grouted) shower floor. In doing a final check of slope, I find a small row of tiles about halfway across the longer side of the shower where there must be a hump of some sort. Not enough to cause my level move outside of level, but enough to cause the bubble to touch the line that would indicate slope going the wrong way. I am trying to figure out whether this little patch of tile needs removal and some sort of sanding down. The far wall is well above the drain, and the tiles on either side of this patch have great slope. But this hump, well. Not sure if it might be problematic. Thoughts?
Hi John,
If it is against a wall (slopes down all the way to the wall) then you need to remove the tile and fix it. If, when water runs down the wrong way, it will hit an area away from the wall which is sloped the right way (the hump is NOT against the wall) then the water should drain just fine.
Roger: I have 1/4″ dip in my finished deck mud that need to fill. What is the best product to fill in the dip with? Thanks, Evan
Hi Evan,
A thinset slurry and more deck mud.
I’m from the Caribbean so we have concrete walls and floors is it still necessary to put in a liner? And switch up the drinks have some rum and cola
Hi Sharon,
Yes, a liner is still required. Your shower needs to be waterproofed, concrete is not waterproof.
Sorry, can’t stand rum. I’ll do vodka instead, just for you.
I just realized you have a WHOLE book dedicated to the subject! FUN! How did I not see that?
I’ll be sending you some money for your next pack of beer in a few minutes. Cheers!
Hello Mr. Elf,
First of all, thank you so much for all the amazing information you so generously provide. I’ve spent several day reading most of the articles and your guide. It is quite the crash course in shower making you got there. I’m glad I read this before flooding my house.
So question (s): is it ok to mix and match topical and traditional waterproofing methods?
More specifically: The main issue with our shower is that the drain is very close to the back wall (like 4 inches from the center of the drain to the wallboard). There is no way we can fit a topical drain (big!) in there without moving the wall (and I’d rather not). Unless you have a magical unicorn that can help me with a magical small topical drain.
So I was thinking of making a preslope with deck mud, putting a PVC membrane on the slope (smallish clamp drain) and up the studs (1 foot) Then installing concrete sheets on the walls, doing my final slope with deck mud, and either painting liquid membrane or putting Schluter membrane on them (such pretty orange). Would that be ok or am I in trouble?
– Do I put membrane on the cementboard all the way down without creating potential mold issues? I’m guessing it is ok since it’s just for a few inches and water vapour will dissipate upwards if need be.
– Are PVC membranes for ponds ok in showers? They don’t have large enough regular shower PVC membranes at the hardware store, but otherwise I could order it online. Do you have brand preference?
– Do I need to put cement board on the ceiling over the shower if I don’t tile it, or is gypsum ok?
– What do you use to join the cement board and gypsum board, on the edge of the shower? Fiberglass tape and thinset and overlap the ceramic tiles on the gypsum board a smidgen so that it looks good?
You are wonderful. If you didn’t a million miles away and a happy daddy, I’d buy you a drink and ask to see your shower. Just saying.
Hi Mymy,
Putting the membrane all the way down is fine. I don’t know if they would be fine in a shower or not, I would order an Oatey liner online. Gypsum is fine on the ceiling. Fiberglass tape and thinset to tie the two together on the shower edges.
My shower sucks. And my wife doesn’t let me forget it.
You rock Mr Elf! Thanks!
Having perused a plethora of websites and having viewed numerous videos, I am now an expert on how to build and tile a shower stall from the ground up…no, in actuality, I have more questions now that I did when my wife and I did a year prior when we first stumbled across the topic of a poured concrete shower basin. Initially it seemed like a wonderful idea but based on a failure to identify and locate all products necessary to complete such a project coupled with the fear of screwing up our existing shower to the point that our house would subsequently be deemed uninhabitable, we decided to seek out a contractor.
The first contractor was a nationally advertised vendor that came to our home and offered us a deeply discounted price north of $10,000. I won’t mention the vendor’s name but I won’t be buying any windows from them in the future. The next contractor, also a friend of the family, didn’t show for a month, then quoted a $3,000 estimate and hasn’t responded to our calls since. The third contractor told us he would be by a month prior, showed up an hour late after another call and without explanation or apology for his tardiness. His quote was $1,500 labor alone which we would have considered if not for the fact that we had the sinking feeling that he would complete the job in six weeks by showing up once every 10 – 12 days.
Therefore, we are now back to considering tackling this endeavor ourselves but with many of the same reservations we held initially. As I mentioned previously, I have done considerable research via the internet and although I feel I have learned many new and helpful tips, I am also left with basic questions as well as contradictions from one expert to the next. I actually arrived at the Tile Elf’s website from a link on another website that described the shower stall curb and basin differently that was done so on the Tile Elf website. I think part of my problem to is that here in Kentucky, I’ve never seen one of these time shower stall constructions – if possible, please refrain from making any outhouse jokes.
Now that I have the introduction to this book well covered (feel free to omit the above prologue for purposes of brevity…or if you simply don’t want to bog down your server), I would like to provide a little background regarding our current shower stall enclosure. We have a simple 46.5” x 34” acrylic 3-sided stall with a hideous 2-panel sliding glass door that mold and mildew accumulates under and water drains out of when we open it. Because of the odd size i.e. not 48” x 34” and the fact that a new insert would not fit through the bathroom doorway, we came to the conclusion that a custom tiled job is our only option.
Now for my extensive list of questions:
1. When tearing out the existing insert, are there any considerations that may be obvious to others to some but not all? For instance, san we expect to find drywall that extends all the way to the floor behind the insert if that’s what we see in front of the insert? I ask this because it would seem to me that sometimes framers might not “finish” a wall if they already know that a shower stall insert will be covering that area. If the drywall does not go all the way to the floor, won’t it be impossible to pour a shower basin without the material (substrate) leaking through the gap at the base of the drywall?
2. Would it be preferable to build a concrete curb rather than utilizing 2 x 4 studs as a wood curb? If so, should the curb be poured prior to the basin and should the curb substrate be comprised of concrete, mason’s mix, deck mud or wet mud and what is the difference in deck mud and wet mud? If a wood constructed curb is preferable, why? I assume the curb should be constructed prior to the basin even though I have viewed videos depicting the basin being poured first.
3. Of the instructions I have read and the videos I have viewed, some have indicated that roofing paper rather than 6mil polyurethane place should be placed below where a concrete curb is to be poured. The same article failed to mention placing roofing paper or anything below where the basin substrate material is to be poured. I assume that this was merely an oversight and that roofing paper should be placed between all concrete/mason’s mix/deck mud/wet mud substrates and the plywood sub-floor, is that accurate. Also, since the goal of the roofing paper is apparently to keep the substrate mixture from pulling moisture from the plywood or visa-versa, why would one not utilize a waterproof material such as the 6mil polyurethane plastic instead? One last comment regarding the roofing paper – should it extend up the walls to the point that the basin and curb substrate material is poured so that the same type of barrier would exist between the wall and the substrate?
4. No matter whether a wood curb or concrete curb is utilized, won’t the act of pouring the shower basin at a time subsequent to that which the curb was prepared result in a gap between the curb and the basin? If so, is this not a problem because the membrane will be placed over this gap? Nonetheless, would it be advisable to fill the gap with some type of waterproofing substance such as silicone? Additionally, will the weight of the basin substrate mixture fully force its way into the corners of the basin even with the roofing paper at the corner or does the roofing paper need to be cut or are the pre-formed corners to be implemented?
5. My father poured a lot of concrete in his younger days and he once told me that all patios, sidewalks, slabs must be poured to a minimum thickness/depth of 4-inches, otherwise, it will most assuredly crack. If either the pre-slope/membrane/after-slope or the pre-slope/topical waterproofing method is used, won’t the 2-inch layer(s) of basin substrate material be susceptible to cracking? I have read where some have suggested introducing a latex additive into the mix while others have said that is a waste of money although I believe that the reason for that sentiment was that the commenter felt the substrate material was overly strong on its own rather than whether the additive would provide some type of flexibility. If this is, in fact, a concern, should some type of rebar-like mesh/lattice be placed at 1-inch in the 2-inch mixture?
6. Are you saying that the Kerdi drain must be installed to insure proper drainage for all applications? More specifically, are you saying that no other available drains are properly designed with the weep-hole system?
7. Does the type of installation, e.g.1) new home or 2) replacement, dictate the type of waterproofing system to utilize? More specifically, if I have a new home with exposed wall studs, do I opt for the “traditional” method with 6mil polyurethane plastic attached to the studs and then fronted by concrete backer-board and then Thin-set, tile and grout sealant? Whereas, if I am replacing a shower stall acrylic insert with a tiled shower stall, will I select one of either the 1) wallpaper-like or 2) paint-on topical waterproofing methods? If so, which is the absolute best topical option to insure against leakage? If not, is the decision purely one of economics? Am I correct in my thinking that I wouldn’t want to tear the drywall behind my acrylic insert just to be able to attach the 6mil polyurethane plastic to the studs and then re-front with concrete backer-board? Also, just out of curiosity, if one were utilizing the topical (more expensive) method on a new home construction, wouldn’t it be advisable to go ahead and attach the traditional (less expensive) plastic to the wall studs to provide a double layer of waterproofing protection or is there some reason can you not utilize both methods simultaneously?
8. My local home improvement retailers apparently do not stock Redguard, Aquaguard or HydroBan. Since I will need to order whichever I choose from an online vendor, is HydroBan clear-and-away to superior choice? Is there any reason (health concerns, long-term product life, etc.) that would cause me not to want to use one of these products? Will any of these products deteriorate over time such that I would have to tear the shower stall down every ten years and redo it? I understand that the Thin-set will adhere to any of these products but, and keep in mind I have never tiled anything, I can’t help but visualizing trying to adhere tile to an unstable and irregular surface. I assume and hope that this thought is due entirely to my lack of aptitude regarding such. Reading that the HydroBan will adhere to many surfaces including gypsum drywall, can I infer that by specifying gypsum drywall, there are also other materials of which drywall may be composed? If so, how can I determine if my drywall is gypsum prior to my ordering $300 worth of HydroBan?
9. Regarding tile selection, I read one comment that said not to utilize Travertine tile for shower stalls because it is more porous than ceramic tile. I was of the impression that Travertine was merely a type of design or pattern than a material. In fact, I thought the tile on the floor in my bathroom is a ceramic tile in a travertine pattern. Can I also assume for the same reasons that a glass tile would be optimal because it isn’t porous at all? I also read that glass tile shouldn’t be utilized because any moisture behind it would be visible. Is that true? Also, am I to utilize small (i.e. 1” – 1.5” square) tiles for the shower basin not only to more easily accommodate the slope of the basin but also because more closely spaced grout joints would better accommodate the weight of someone standing in the shower? If this is all true, it is safe to assume that one’s shower floor tiles almost never match the tiles selected for the shower stall walls?
10. Lastly (plus I want to have an even number of questions), based on my reading, it seems as though it takes as much as 28 days for concrete and concrete-like mixtures to cure completely. If that is true, I suppose it would be optimal to let a concrete curb cure for 28 days prior to pouring the basin pre-slope which would cure 28 days and then the after-slope for 28 more days and finally the Thinset for the lower course or two of wall tiles so as to provide maximum support for the tiles above. I guess one would also want to wait as long as possible before showering after the grout sealer is applied. Obviously this is not practical; however, if want wants to increase one’s chances as much as practically possible to building a non-cracking, non-leaking tiled shower stall, what minimum curing durations should be adhered to for each substrate?
For several nights now I have built and tiled a shower stall in my dreams and frankly, I’ve neither been successful nor fully rested. Nonetheless, below are my brief steps that I think I need to follow. If I haven’t lost you completely to boredom from my diatribe above, please comment where you think appropriate:
1. Tear out existing acrylic insert;
2. Place the drain in the proper position with the weep holes 2-inches above the sub floor and the uppermost part of the drain 2-inches above that;
3. Clean area and staple roofing paper to the floor and extending 2- 3 inches up each wall and entirely over my 2×4 curb;
4. Nail three 2×4 studs to the floor to serve as a basis for my curb;
5. Cut an area in the roofing paper to allow the reveal the drain apparatus;
6. Cut and position a piece of mesh/lattice both in the shower basin area and over the curb;
7. Mix up deck mud (5 parts sand, 1 part Portland cement, minimal water, no additive) and pour into shower basin area;
8. Craft a basin extending from the weep holes in the center sloping upward to the outer walls at ¼” per foot (in my case ½” over 2 feet);
9. QUESTION: How am I to craft the deck mud on top and on the side of the 2×4 curb without any forms to keep the deck mud in place?
10. Let Deck Mud cure 48 hours;
11. Thoroughly apply one coat of HydroBan to everything in sight including the basin, the hopefully gypsum drywall and the yet to be understood crafted curb;
12. Let HydroBan cure 4 – 6 hours;
13. Apply a second coat of HydroBan to everything;
14. Let second coat of HydroBan cure 4-6hours;
15. Cut and position a second piece of mesh/lattice on the HydroBan coated shower basin pre-slope;
16. Mix a second batch of deck mud and pour on top of HydroBan coated pre-slope;
17. Craft the after-slope portion of shower basin to slope from just under uppermost part of drain allowing for thickness of tile under uppermost portion of drain apparatus sloping upward to the outer walls at ¼” per foot (in my case ½” over 2 feet);
18. NOTE: This will now result in a roughly 4-inche depth of Deck Mud at the drain and 4.5 inches depth of Deck Mud at the outer walls;
19. Let final layer of Deck Mud cure 48 hours;
20. Apply Thinset to cured Deck Mud and complete tiling with small tiles (ceramic or glass?)
21. Let tiled shower basin cure 48 hours;
22. Apply Thinset to tiles to be used for first two courses at base of shower stall and tile;
23. Let first two course of tiles cure 24 hours;
24. Tile the remainder of the shower stall;
25. Let the remaining tiles (Thinset) cure for 24 hours;
26. Grout entire shower stall;
27. Wipe away excess grout at specified time intervals;
28. Let grout cure 24 hours;
29. Apply grout sealant (QUESTION: Is the grout sealant to cover tiles as well?)
30. Let grout sealant cure 24 hours.
Thank you for you for your assistance with this matter (I apologize profusely for the length and ignorance illustrated by the above).
Hi Brian,
It seems that you’ve over-researched this and are getting both mixed information and mixing methods.
In your first couple questions there are a lot of mixed up info and slightly confusing questions.
First, I have no idea what may or may not be behind your shower surround. I have seen everything from bare framing to fully mudded then plastered (over the mud) walls. Just tear it out to the frame and start fresh. It doesn’t matter what’s behind it, to be honest.
The curb is very simple: If it’s over wood use wood, if it’s over concrete use bricks. The difference between deck mud and wet mud is lime.
Roofing paper or plastic can be used beneath your floor. It is not for waterproofing, so there’s no reason to use a waterproofing barrier under it and sealing it – you’ll create problems with sandwiched barriers and mud.
The gap makes ABSOLUTELY no difference. When using hydroban it will never, ever see moisture.
The kerdi drain has no weep holes.And no, I never said, nor insinuated, that a kerdi drain must be installed with all methods. Most all other drains do have weep systems.
No it is not necessary to wait for a full cure before doing anything else, an initial cure is just fine.
I’ll stop with those because I’m honestly finding it difficult to keep the different methods separated.
As far as your building order – you have a double layer deck with hydroban sandwiched in there, with a kerdi drain (?) with no weep holes (it doesn’t have them), a double layer of lath…
So here’s what I propose: First, download my free shower waterproofing manual. It will explain the different methods with advantages of each. Should you decide to continue with the hydroban method it’s very simple:
Curb (wood), drain, plastic or tar paper, lath, deck mud – single layer, hydroban, tile. Backerboard can be installed over the curb if using hydroban, you don’t need wet mud.
The best option would be to get the liquid topical manual which explains everything from start to finish. I doubt you’ll have many questions at all should you do that.
Thanks for your response. Actually, Ithe first thing I did was download your manual and it was extremely enligthening although I’m sure you find that hard to believe given the multitude of questions I proposed. I guess I’m just getting dense(r) in my older years so I had my younger wife read it as well. We ended up with several questions but thanks again for the guidance and your quick response.
Seems like there is something that crops up that creates another problem. I am using a topical waterproofing method (Redgard), I had to remove a 1″ square tile from the shower floor. Floor had not been completed or even grouted yet. I penetrated the Redgard membrane. Please tell me I can apply more Redgard to patch this issue. I’ll have fingers crossed waiting your response. Thank you JD
Hi JD,
Yes, you can use more redgard. You need to make sure you get a good seal between the new and existing, but it’ll work just fine.
Just kidding. Downloaded your “how to choose” book and I understand better. I think traditional pan is for me with Redgard on walls.
Oh, okay.
Can’t thank you enough for your wealth of information!
1. I’m most interested in doing one layer of mud with Redgard. I have a neo-angle shower and don’t feel like messing with all those fussy liner angles. Why is the Redgard not more frequently used on floors? Is there a major drawback to this? Seems as though everyone still uses liner method.
2. Is there a different drain I will need for this type of application? Plumber is coming Monday to prep drain (along with a few other small projects). Should I have the actual drain on hand or can I just tell him my plans?
3. I’m working with a cement slab so I’ll be using bricks for curb. Without liner, how do I prep curb for tile? Just lathe and mud with Redgard over it?
Thank you for your willingness to help!
Hi Kelli,
You’ve answered almost all your own questions.
1. Because a topical drain is required.
2. Yes, you need a topical drain. Schluter kerdi drain and laticrete hydroban drain are the two most popular and readily available.
3. Yes, lath and mud with redgard.
Thank you so much. Good to know I’m on the right track! Can you explain the drain a little better to me? My plumber installed a pretty standard Oatey drain that screws up and down for depth of pan. Is this not what I need? Fun tip- don’t google “topical drain” unless you want to see a ton of skin conditions that need draining
Also, further investigation seems that dry time of deck mud is an issue for a Redgard pan. I read 28 days prior to Redgard…is this correct?
A kerdi drain, or topical drain, is installed in the floor and the membrane is placed right over it. A regular 3-piece drain has two layers with weep holes that set beneath the top mud deck. With a topical drain all the water goes right into the top of it. 28 days is not correct, 3 days is.
Alright, so got your book and am ready to go. Or so I thought. I just realized that the plumber put the drain flush with the concrete slab. How do I remedy this to account for the 3/4 needed for preslope?
Hi Kelli,
Just make a pre-slope that is not 3/4″ at the drain. Make it flush with the top of the bottom flange (about 3/8″ or so) and rise 1/4″ / foot from there. It’ll be fine.
Great. Thanks! Got the pre-slope done today. I walked away like you said but I have some serious doubts. Ha!
Another question for you. I have installed the liner and had trouble locating dam corners. I ordered some online that won’t be here until next week. I’d like to get moving with my water test today and I finally located someone in town who has the Pasco vinyl corners. My pan is the oatey PVC. Will this combination work? Can I still use the X-15 adhesive?
Hi Kelli,
Yes, they will work. Yes you can use the x-15.
Hi Roger,
My shower floor and bench are hot mopped with a pre-slope on the floor. For the floor, do I still need to apply a top layer mud? And if so should I place the metal lath over the hot mop floor and curb? As for the bench walls, I’m guessing I should use your mud recipe with lime to make it stick?
Thank you in advance!
Hi Artman,
Yes, you still need the mud deck, and the wet mud over the bench. No need for lath in the floor, but you still need it over the curb.
I was reading through the different types of waterproofing. It appears in your article that if I use a topical liquid to waterproof the shower base then I don’t need the top layer of mud. did I read that correctly that it would be subfloor, preslope, liquid waterproofing, mortar, tile.
Hi Justin,
That’s correct, only a single slope for topical waterproofing.
I have put in my deck mud shower pan and am getting ready to apply redgard and I noticed that you recommend using a thinset slurry to take care of the sandiness. How long should I be waiting for the slurry to dry before applying redgard. Is it another 3 days? I want to apply as quickly as possible but am not sure if it needs to be (with a thin thinset layer) 6, 12, 24, or 72 hours.
Thanks.
You can redgard it the next day. 12 hours should be sufficient.
Hey Roger
I have my dry pack complete using the Laticrete bonding flange. I was well pleased with the way it turned out but now I’m a little concerned. My next step is to prep the walls and floor for the hydro ban topical membrane. I was going to dry fit the floor tile to try and minimize the traffic on the membrane. Problem is when I laid the floor tile on the shower floor near the drain it seems to be a bit low in comparison to the drain grate. I have the grate at the absolute lowest it can be and I’m measuring about 1/2″-9/16″ from the top of the grate down to where the slope would be. To give you a visual I used a paint paddle to follow the slope then i measured from there to the top of the grate. Does this sound correct?
My tile is just the typical big box store tile that is roughly 1/4″ thick. I really
haven’t given it much thought because the mud bed has a smooth transition on to the flange. The outer most edge of the flange is flush with the mud bed. OR>>>> Am I just over thinking this thing?? It looks to me like I may end up with the tile being about 1/16 – 1/8″ lower than the grate. What would you recommend?
As always…Thank you so much for your advice
PS I was using the you tube video found here as a reference. Not sure if this 100% correct? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X2tZaZR5ao
Jamie
My apologies should this post show up duplicated here or in another section. Having trouble with those darn funny lettered words.
Thanks Again
Hi Jamie,
The thinner mosaics require a larger trowel in order to have more thinset beneath the tile. You can also float a skim coat over the hydroban and let it cure, then install the tile normally.
Roger,
Despite your excellent detailed steps I managed to miss one building my ‘traditional’ shower bed. I forgot to apply the mortar (thinset) before installing my pre-sloped deck mud. How critical is this miss? What are the possible repercussions? Do I rip out and start over?
Its a 60″ x 42″ base on a finished (smooth) concrete basement floor with a concrete curb.
Also, can a liquid concrete adhesive such as Quickrete Bonding Adhesive be used instead of thinset in this situation?
Thanks!
Hi Phil,
In smaller showers like that it’s not a problem to have an unbonded mud bed. It’s fine.
Roger,
Two questions:
1. When I install my durarock, do I also want to apply any silicone or sealer at the expansion gap between the durarock and the finished mud bed.
2. Is it better to grout or silicone/caulk the seam between wall tiles and floor tiles?
Ok three…
3. Do you recommend applying less water to thinset used on the walls to better enable the wall tiles to adhere and not slip?
Thanks for all your great info!
-mike
Hey Mike,
1. No
2. Silicone
3. No. They will slip either way. Adding less water may compromise the thinset. Begin at the bottom and support each row as you work up the wall.
Is the finished dried bed supposed to be very “sandy” ?
like if you scrape it the sand kinda scrapes away from it?
it dried for over 24 hrs..it`s very hard..but also very sandy.
Is it ok to tile over it ?
Thanks!
Hi Guy,
From this: Creating a shower floor Part 2: “Before you install your liner I need to type this: your preslope will be sandy, it’s suppose to be sandy – it’s normal, don’t panic. If you have any high areas in your preslope you may want to scrape or sand it down so it runs in a flat, straight line from the wall to the drain. Notice I typed “flat, straight” and not level – if it’s level water won’t drain.”
It’s fine. Yes, you can tile over it.
Hi Roger. I’m doing my deck mud last on the curb. I know you told me that you don’t use any hardibacker on the curb, just lathe and mud. Is there a disadvantage to screwing hardibacker to the outside only squeezing the lath in between that and the liner? By this I would be leaving a nice nonwavy front and level top edge for filling mud on the top part of the curb. Thank you.
On the outside is fine if you must.
Do you use any hardibacker on the 2×4 curb?
Nope, wire lath and mud.
Roger,
Thanks for all the great info. I am re-doing the bottom 20″ of shower wall as well as the entire floor. The shower is only 5 years old and has been showing signs of degradation so I decided to investigate. Turns out the following took place during install:
-PVC liner placed directly on subfloor…(water apparently travels both horizontal and uphill)
-weep holes clogged with deck mud because no pea gravel
-backer board nailed to curb on ALL sides…(and top)
-wall backer board nailed approx 3″ from floor (I wonder if PVC liner could be that high.)
-wall backer board installed lying directly in contact with PVC liner
-sloped deck mud installed after walls tiled and grouted….(apparently deck mud won’t adhere to porcelain tile) so water actually traveled down wall tiles and directly to FLAT liner!!!
My question….. If the pre slope is done correctly, then the liner installed correctly, then the main slope installed correctly, will it make a difference or not if I tile the floor before or after installing the wall backer boards? With what I saw with my scenario it might make a difference if the walls are over the finished edge of the floor. But then again, NOTHING seems to have been done correctly originally!!!
Thanks again,
Michael
Hi Michael,
When built properly it makes no difference at all.
Hi. Excellent site thanks. About to start a shower project at home (New Zealand). They sell a product here called Gib Aqualine – am I able to use this for the shower walls? Thanks a lot
Hi Jon,
From the information I can find about it online yes, it seems to be a proper product for your shower walls. You may want to contact the manufacturer to ensure that, though.
HI Im doing a walkin shower with a hot mop shower pan and Im not sure what I need to do with the dam. I have 3 2×4 stacked and covered with the hot mop how do I attach the substrate to the curb without poking holes in my liner?
Hi Rich,
Bend lath around the curb and cover it with mud. Once it cures bond your tile directly to it.
I will try to attach 2 pics of the liner over the preslope and the bottom flange tightened on it…yes there is a dip….is the dip too much?
The dip is fine.
Roger,
Just finished the 6 part shower posts… (included the how to make deck mud.)
Have you considered a set of posts or eBook for a barrier free and/or ADA shower and bathroom? I don’t currently need ADA but am thinking of a barrier free shower and tub.
Just one of the questions I have is do I need to flood test the whole bathroom?!? http://floorelf.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif
Thank you for maintaining this site/information.
James
Hi James,
No, I have not made any manuals with specifics of curbless showers yet. The flood test for curbless showers is dictated by your local county codes. Here I can place a temporary dam at the shower entrance and just test the shower. Some places do require the entire room. Your local building department can answer that question for you.
Hi Roger,
We have to do a mud base due to non-standard size shower (31×46) in a 47 year old house. Can we use 4×4 or 6×6 tiles for the shower floor? One bathroom contractor said we could only use the 1×1. thanks
Nancy
Hi Nancy,
The absolute largest you can likely use successfully is 4×4, but that’s pushing it. The tile needs to conform to the slope of the floor, which is essentially a shallow bowl. Normally 2×2 mosaic tiles are used as they are a bit larger and still conform to the slope well.