Different types and styles of shower niches
Completed simple shower niche
Here is a photo of the niche I’ve used for these posts and these series of photos. If you simply want a regular hole in the wall the exact size of one tile this is all you need. If you don’t have any idea what the hell I’m talking typing about, start at the beginning here: Building a Shower Niche Part 1. More likely you’ll want to bling that bad boy out in order to make the neighbors and in-laws jealous, no?
That is what I will cover in this post. Hopefully you are reading this before you’ve cut a hole in your wall or anything else. The size, shape, location, just about everything depends on what you want your niche to look like. I will only be able to cover some very general examples since there are, literally, endless possibilities for a shower niche.
If you have any questions pertaining to your particular installation you can always leave a comment below. I do answer every one of them – I’m just super-cool like that. 
Photo 1
You can click on any of these photos for a ridiculously large very detailed view of my lack of photography skills.
Every (except one) niche on this page was built in exactly the same way as I’ve described with these posts with only small variations in sizing, placement, etc. Small changes just to enable the design elements.
The first (photo 1) is simply a taller niche with a shelf in it (for your rubber ducky). The elements that make this niche stand out are the glass and travertine liner that run into the sides of the niche and the same liner on the back wall of the niche turned 90 degrees. Other than those it is built exactly the same as the one above.
To create a shelf in this niche I’ve used two of the bullnose tiles, the same tile used for the sides of the niche, and placed them back to back. You can use an epoxy or just regular thinset to sandwich them together. That’s it – that is your shelf.
Photo 2
To install it just place it into the niche and figure out exactly where you want it to be. Measure from the bottom of it to the bottom of your niche and that is the size to cut the first two side pieces of your niche. They are the two pieces below the shelf supporting it.
The order of the pieces for the interior of the niche are back wall first, bottom piece, two short side pieces – the ones you just cut, shelf pieces – the two that you just sandwiched, top piece of bullnose, then the two remaining side pieces cut and installed after everything else. This ensures an exact fit for all your pieces.
In photo 2 is the niche in the other side of the same shower. Both niches are the same size. Due to framing they are not placed in the same spot in the field tile, though. In photo 2 the sides do not line up with grout lines. And you probably never would have noticed it. 
That is exactly what I mean when I say type that it is not always possible to lay out the niche where you want it. Framing dictates everything you attempt to build into the wall. if it is a supporting (load-bearing) wall you don’t have many choices without major reconstruction. So either move the niche four inches or rebuild the side of your house. You choose.
Photo 3
Photo 3 is another simple niche like the one at the top except it is built into a subway-style shower. The big thing about getting these to look right is ensuring the pattern follows through in the back of the niche.
The order of installation is the same – back, bottom, top, sides. However, the side pieces are twice as long as the height of the field tile, make sure you line up the grout lines or it won’t look right. It will look ‘busy’ (that’s what designers say, I have no idea what it means. I guess you don’t want your tile to look like it has a job.)
You can always offset the grout lines in the sides of the niche with the field tile, however, in doing that you must also offset the back of the niche with those grout lines. That will break the flow of your horizontal grout lines. You don’t want that, keep the horizontal grout lines flowing consistently.
Photo 4
Photo 4 is another subway style shower with a shelf in the niche. The order of installation is the same, however, you need to find a larger tile to use for your shelf. The subway tile in the field will not work, they are too small. Your rubber ducky will fall down.
In this case I cut down some of the same tile in a larger size for the top, bottom, and shelf of the niche. Notice, though, how the pattern still flows all the way through the niche. Keep it consistent.
In both subway showers the liner is running above the niche rather than through it. You can do it however you want – its your shower. Whatever looks best to you is the right way. If you do run the liner through the niche, run it all the way through. Don’t stop the liner on the sides, have regular bullnose all the way around the niche, then continue the liner across the back of the niche. It breaks up the liner and looks like an afterthought.
I’ll send Guedo after your ass! 
So don’t do that.
Photo 5
Number 5 is a double niche with shelves in the center. There are several aspects of these that really make them stand out.
First, obviously, is the fact that the backs of them are a different color – the same as the liner. Really makes them stand out.
I normally do not place the shelves in the center of the niche, no real reason to have four identically sized shelves. On these, though, I decided to line them up with the diamond I placed between them. Flow Baby! Yeah! 
You will notice, however, that the layout and everything else is exactly the same as the rest – top and bottom line up with a grout line and the design and consistency flows through the niches. Make it look like it fits! That is the secret and the difference between a professionally designed and installed niche and a hole in the wall.
Photo 6
Photo 6 is the same as all the others with a shelf in them. Noticing a theme here? 
There are a couple of differences.
You will notice the diagonal (on-point) row flowing through it. You want to keep the pattern consistent so that if you look at the niche straight on the grout lines do not jump, break, or move. They are consistent.
The shelf is also lined up with a grout line. The flow is more important than a specific size or height for the shelf.
You will also notice (I hope by now) that the bottom of the niche does not line up with a grout line. Remember when I said typed that it wasn’t always possible or feasible? That is what I meant. In this case it wasn’t very feasible. If I did line it up on the top and bottom it would either be 17″ tall with a shelf – that’s small, or 30″ tall – that is ridiculously huge. It actually looks better with the L-cuts. If you choose a grout that matches your tile you will never notice it. Or, you know, if you haven’t read any of my posts – ever – you would probably never notice it.
It’s all right to break the rules! Well, the design rules, anyway. There is nothing set in stone (that’s a pun, in case you missed it. A tile guy pun.) If it looks good to you do it. I’m just giving you guidelines to have a more professional looking installation.
Photo 7
Number 7 is another rule breaker. A couple of ways. By now you should be able to spot them. Pay attention, there will be a quiz later.
The only grout line that matches is the top. Neither the sides nor bottom match. Looks like hell, huh? Or at least doesn’t look right. It’s because I did not build the niche spaces, the framer, homeowner, and drywaller did. Please do not do that then expect your tile guy to create perfection. Perfection does not start with the tile guy, it starts with the plan. Plan first! Whether you are the tile guy (or girl) or not.
I do have it there for a reason, though. Notice the vertical grout lines in the niche sides? Those are six inches deep. That’s great if you have the space in the wall. But, if you don’t you do not want that back piece to be 1/2″ wide, that looks like hell.
I’ll get guedo again so don’t do that.
The bottom of those niches is also a solid surface material rather than bullnose tile. These are products such as corian, surrell, granite slab, etc. If you use something like that it allows you to extend the niche shelf out from the wall a bit.
Photo 8
Photo 8 is (an awesome shower!) a marble shower. All of the shower walls, as well as the ceiling, are on-point (installed diagonally). I want to apologize ( I don’t do that often, by the way 
) because this is the best photo I have of the niches themselves. I was so happy with the outcome of that shower I nearly pissed myself with joy and forgot to get good photos of the niches. So I’ll just have to describe how awesome they are.
The wall the niches are installed into is a diagonal wall and, as such, I was able to make the niches a foot deep. Talk about rubber ducky storage!
The most difficult thing about placing niches in an on-point shower is that you will not be able to line up the grout lines. No big deal, it doesn’t make a difference in this application. The hard part is making the cuts in the field tile up to the niche look right. They have to be perfect. Install your entire niche and hold up your tile to the sides of it exactly in the right spot to mark them. Then take your time cutting them. If you slip or make a small mistake – start over. Just take your time, it’s worth it.
All the sides and top and bottom of these niches are full tiles which I bullnosed on the edge. Doing this eliminates any grout lines inside the niche. Nice and clean. The secret to this application is to install the entire niche then cut the field tile to it rather than the other way around.
Photo 9
Photo 9 is another marble shower (I like marble). This particular niche has a solid piece of marble slab on the bottom for the shelf, which allows it to stick out a bit, and a small arch in the top.
This is only a small arch so it only had four pieces making up the top of it. If you click on it you can barely make out how they step around the arch.
You can do this with regular bullnose or, with natural stone, you can bullnose custom pieces to fit. Doing that also allows this niche to be five inches deep without vertical grout lines in the sides of the niche.
You will also notice that the sides extend past the vertical grout lines in the field tile. The grout lines follow through in the back of the niche – everything lines up.
Photo 10
Number 10 is another arch. In this case the arch is framed. That simply means that the bullnose pieces are placed on the outside of the niche to form a frame around it.
Notice, again, how the pattern follows through the niche. This is one way to do an arch with ceramic or porcelain and regular sized bullnose. Doing this you can also make the niche as deep as you want since the tiles inside are simply field tiles which are cut down to size.
Photo 11
There is another way to so an arch with regular ceramic or porcelain and standard bullnose. That is photo 11.
The bullnose is placed inside the niche as normal but the top pieces are cut into smaller (shorter) pieces to conform to the slope of the arch.
Install everything around and in the back of the niche first then do the top arch pieces. With the field tile already installed it helps guage the sizes you need for the arch. Try to work it out so that they are all the same size.
And follow your pattern through the niche, damnit! Oh, sorry, did I mention that before?
All of the niches except number 7 (that was already framed in and finished before I showed up) were built nearly identically. The same as the simple niche I’ve described in all these posts, the one at the top of the page.
They were all framed the same (except the arches) and cut and created after part of the field tile was installed. Doing it in that manner will ensure that your design flows and your niche is not an afterthought. I hate that!
Don’t do that! You know what happens.
If you have any question pertaining to your specific niche installation just leave a comment below and I’ll get back with you as soon as elvenly possible. (That’s just like ‘humanly possible’ – but with elves.)
Rodger,
I’m adding seats to my pan, do I need to run the PVC liner up and over the seat, or will redguard or the water barrier be enough. My experience is with hot mopped pans and they would mop up the seat wall and seat pan, then about 6-12″ above the seat.
thanks,
Chris
Hey Chris,
Redgard or the barrier will be enough provided your seat is sloped properly beneath it and whichever you use laps over the floor membrane.
Hi Roger,
What a great site, I’m learning so much just be reading the posts.
I am planning a niche with a rough-in width of 20″. I will be using a 1/2″ CBU substrate. Due to the width of the niche, I feel I need to span the rough-in opening with plywood behind the CBU substrate. Is this correct? and if so, what thickness would you recommend? This is will be in a 6″ wall.
Thanks, Dan
Hey Dan,
You can do it that way, it’ll work well. You could also just double up the header above the niche to ensure your studs from the niche up are fully supported. If you go with the plywood I would go with 3/4″ since you have a 6″ depth.
Roger
I thought I submitted this question earlier, but I can’t find it on your site, so I guess I botched it.
My problem is with my niche shelf. I used some backer rod to fill in a gap where the upper shelf meets the back of the niche. When I applied the silicone, I either didn’t use enough or it settled down so that I now have a little trough back there that will hold water. Do you have any tricks for fixing this, short of tearing it out and redoing it.
If I have to redo it, do you have suggestions for removing the silicone?
I am real happy with the shower, having used all your good advice. I would be glad to send you a picture if you are interested.
Thanks!
Hey Larry,
Can you fill it up with more silicone? How big is the gap. Silicone will not necessarily adhere to silicone, but the seal is made where the bead meets the tile, not anything behind it. Is that a feasible solution?
Roger,
Do you ever cut the tile at the back of the niche to help support the shelf?
Thanks!
BTW, why don’t we get an edit button (you typed a big edit up above)? My question at the end of Part one about changing planes (how did we get on the topic of flying again) was answered above and I could edit it out before anyone sees me repeating myself (or did I already say that)!
No edit buttons for wordpress that don’t lead to problems with my back end. (Insert joke here). If the shelf is large enough or the tile is fragile enough I do cut the tile in the back of the niche as well.
Roger, in niche photo #6, I notice that you ran the grout lines only through the top section and did not run the grout line through in the lower section of the niche…What was your thinking on this ? Perhaps it would be too busy with grout lines ?
Also, I notice that there is grout along the intersection of the back shelf and the back of the niche, does the shelf rest only on the two side pieces and does NOT rest on the lower back (ie. the back field plane is not broken by the shelf inserting into it as it does on the two sides). Since the shelf is the same bull-nose material as the sides, I don’t think it does rest on the back but wanted to check with you before cutting the niche pieces.
Hi Joe,
Because only you and I notice it.
Actually I initially had the grout line following through but the homeowner wanted it changed. She’s writing the check – she gets whatever she wants. I will admit with that particular layout it did end up looking better.
That shelf does only rest on the sides. The bullnose was only 2 3/4″ rather than a full three and had I inserted into the back tiles as well the niche would only have been a little over 2″ deep. You can do it either way – doing it that way leaves the niche just a little bit bigger front to back. Sometimes that extra 1/2″ makes a world of difference.
Hi there,
I am very nervous about building our niche–and I am so relieved to have found your site! Thank you so much for all the time and effort you have put into it.
My concern is that I do not have a bull nose available for my size of tile. It is 4 1/4 x 4 1/4 white glazed ceramic tile. (The house was built in the fifties. We’re attempting a sympathetic restoration.) The tiles have “self-spacers” on the edges–in other words, they are not smooth.
The niche will be three tiles wide by 3 tiles tall. (12 3/4 x 12 3/4″)
We are using the orange Kerdi/schulter product over cement board for waterproofing.
Here’s the other thing. The wall where we are building the niche is an interior wall. The studs are 3 3/4″ wide. The cement board is 1/2″ inch. Everything is OK until I take the 1/8″ of the thickness of the tile itself into consideration.
Option #1: shave 1/8″ off of 12 tiles. I can take them to a tile place and have them cut for me, though. Can I trust them to get them perfect? –But then, of course, I still have raw edges to contend with.
variation of option A: build back wall out 1/2″ with the cement board (It just occurred to me: should I do this anyway so that the kerdi is not in direct contact with the drywall of the other side?) Then, !2 square tiles will need to be cut 5/8″. (That’s easier to handle!) But there are still raw edges to be dealt with. There is that nasty white plastic edging: I’m worried about using that as I’m afraid it will catch water on the shelf. (It will catch dirt. As well, it’s an extra line which will bother me.)
Option #2. There is white bullnose available but it is 2″ x 6.” I would need 12 pieces and I would want to cut each piece down to match the length of the 4 1/4″ square tile. I would need to cut 12 of the square ones by 2 5/8 (plus 1/16th for grouting?) Then, I could line the bottom and the sides of the niche with the cut square next to the back of the niche and the bull nose next to it making up the outside edge of the inside of the niche. It’s a lot of lines: but only on the sides, the shelf and the top. The back would still be 3×3 square tiles.
Do I need to be concerned about the field tile having rough edges, too? (Field tile is the tile on the wall which meets the niche, right? If I’m not right, that’s the tile I mean, anyway!) Will grout take care of that?
Help. Please. This all just feels so complicated I’m beginning to think I’ll need to say goodbye to my dream of having a niche. But we need the storage. The bathroom is only 5′ x 7′!
Oops, I just realised it is Thanksgiving. Well, I hope we hear from you soon. Happy Turkey Day.
Hey Alana,
I always use a bullnose tile with ceramic or porcelain tile. The unfinished square edges simply look horrible. I would vote for #2. Although you will have numerous grout lines along the sides it will still give a more finished look that attempting to make the edges of the field tile look finished – can’ really do that without spending insane amounts of money for neat little tools I have. They essentially turn a field tile into a bullnose – so you end up with a bullnose anyway. If you have any exposed cuts on a grout line you can sand down the cut edge a bit so it doesn’t look sharp or ragged. You can build out the back wall or not – whichever you choose. The kerdi will work just as fine on the backside of the drywall as on an additional piece of backerboard.
Hi Roger,
Thank you so much! I am impressed and relieved you got back to me so quickly–especially in light of the holiday. Would you like me to send a photo (if I can figure out how to do that) when we’re done?
I’m also planning on building a shelf at shower height on the end wall (it’s an outside wall) that will stick out like an ordinary shelf–but the height of one tile. Sides: one square tile, top and bottom cut square and bullnose tile. (Again, probably the length of three)
I’d like to build a box out of tile backer board and secure to the wall with hidden screws. Wrap it in kerdie making sure I overlap, etc. Should it have a slope? Can I glue tile backer board? What sort of glue?
Any advise about that?
Thanks again,
Alana
You CAN glue backerboard but the stability will depend on the specific glue’s properties long-term, it’s better to screw it. As long as you have it covered with kerdi it will be fine with as many screws as you need. The top of the shelf needs to be sloped slightly toward the shower just enough so water will run off of it and not collect.
Thank you so much. We will use the screws then, no problemo. And we’ll do our best to slope it, too.
Hi! I’m the same person that’s been emailing you about ditra and sandstone in a bathroom. We are done with that project, and it looks great. Thanks!!! Now, on to the more difficult task of trimming out the inset for the towel warmer. There is about a 2″ gap all around the outside of the inset, allowing for either a wood trim (coward’s way out), or a tile trim (where the brave, so far, have not gone). We have a tile saw that would cut a bevel on the sandstone, and we’re looking at cutting our own simple listello, because there isn’t one out there that will match the tiles we have. Have you built your own listellos from fiberglass mesh and glue? How workable is that option? We’re looking at something very simple, but because it will be on the wall, and since there will be a lot of little pieces, I think it would be best if they were fastened to something before I applied it to the wall. I’ve also seen the clear tile tape that holds listello pieces. However, we put two coats of enhancer and sealer to the tiles, and masking tape won’t really stick to the front of them, now, so I can’t imagine that anything else will stick to them, either. Any help is appreciated. Love your site and tile tips!!
Ann
Hey Ann,
Fiberglass mesh and tile work great to make listellos. However, the way I currently do it is much easier and ensures contact along the entire backside of the tile. I use regular contact paper (similar to the tile tape) and create the listello upside down. Create the listello by placing the contact paper on a table sticky side up, place your tiles, install it and let the thinset cure, then peel the contact paper off. It will stick at least long enough to get them on the wall.
Roger
I have to agree with everyone else, this is a great site. I am about to remodel the kids bathroom and I would like to include a niche. Their bathroom has a tub and I will be tiling around it. The wall behind the tub is not weight bearing, so I was thinking putting in a niche that is 3/4 as long as the tub. My questions.
1. Will a long niche look good in this situation? I cannot find any pictures of this type of niche.
2. What height should the niche be placed? I don’t want it too high when you are sitting the tub or too low when you are standing in the shower.
Thanks, Buck
Hey Buck,
If you think it looks good, it looks good. I’ve done some like that and they look fine. You can see all different types of niches here: http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=97387
I would place it as high as comfortable while sitting in the tub. Maybe two feet up? I dunno, what’s comfortable for you?
Roger
Thanks for your prompt response. I will be getting started soon and I hope you don’t mind me asking more questions.
Buck
Roger, I just checked the Kerdi coverage on my tub surround installation and discovered the Kerdi did not bond to the drywall along left vertical along the outside front corner of the niche. It’s an area about three inches long and the width of a pencil. I probably used to much pressure and pushed out too much thinset when wraping the Kerdi flap around the corner to the wall… What is your experience on repairing blisters in Kerdi ? I’m searching the web but haven’t come across a solution. Is is too late to peel back the corner and inject thinset, or perhaps cut open the blister, add thinset, then patch with a piece of Kerdi band ? Also, when constructing the Kerdi liner for the niche using your directions, I end up with three layers of Kerdi where the flaps overlap each other at the outside corners which creates a noticable build-up area of Kerdi / Thinset. I troweled thinset around the outside edges and feathered it out to reduce the possibility interference when setting the field tiles, but now wonder if some of these flaps are redundant and can be cut out from the design to reduce ovelap and build-up. Sorry I’m not able to include a graphic of the flaps I’m refering too, but I’m sure you have done this many times and know which flaps I’m refering too..
Hey Joe,
Cutting that open, repairing it, and patching it with kerdi-band is the best option. And yes, I know exactly which overlaps you’re talking about. One of these can be eliminated if need be, but make absolutely sure that the corner spot at the corner of the niche is either tight or patched with kerdi-band if you do that. I normally leave them and use my straight-edge on the niche corners to get my flat plane for the wall – that spot being the outermost spot.
Hey Roger,
Just wanted to thank you first of all for sharing your wealth of knowledge to virtually anybody. I’m a contract builder myself and I’ve learned more from your site alone then all the years carefully watching and occasionally questioning the tile setters i’ve had the opportunity to work beside. I can truly appreciate your willingness to help out others.
After spending a considerable amount of time reading through your site and chuckling so often that it woke up my wife (love the humor), I tackled the tub surround with both a niche and corner shelves. The final product was outstanding. My wife loves me and the dog we were sitting only caught fire twice. (Our 3 year old son also acquired a new word in his vocabulary that closely resembles the word shoot). Ok, my wife is mad at me again. Anyway, I can’t thank you enough, I know the shower would have been just OK had I not found your site… now it’s got that wow factor.
Cheers
Dean
British Columbia, Canada
Hey Dean,
Glad I could help out. Sounds like you got your dog extinguished in time and your son is well on the way to being a full-fledged teenager.
And if your marriage is anything like mine your wife is likely gonna be irritated for some reason or other anyway, may as well give her a reason, no?
Hi Roger,
We’ve been thinking of putting 3 niches on top of one another at one end of our bath. They would all be the same size, but the middle one would have a shelf in the center. I’m wondering tho, if we can just make one long vertical niche and put 3 shelves in it thereby creating the 4 separate spaces we need.
Thanks,
Deborah
Hi Deborah,
Yes.
Shortest. Answer. Ever.
Roger,
First of all I want to THANK YOU for the ADA shower” speed bump” idea, I think it is going to work perfectly. Anyway, now I am beginning to worry about our dog. He is a Glen Terrier and we love him very much. His name is EZ to reflect his personality and because of his propensity for just laying underfoot all the time. Since I started working on this ADA bathroom, he has begun to pace a lot. The only thing that seems to calm him is when I say, “It’s OK. This is the way Roger does it.” Then will he lay down in the way. Lately, I am having a problem figuring out how to make the niche the way I want it (while following all of the Floor Elf instructions).Here is the problem: I hate pulling my shoulder out when trying to get the soap or shampoo out of the bottle so I leave them upside down all the time. I am trying to figure out how to do this in the nice new shower because I really don’t want to take the nasty little bucket that I currently use to the new shower. I want to put some type of barrier on the outside of the niche so that I can leave the bottles upside-down all the time AND to keep them from falling all over the floor AND so the water drains AND so it can easily be cleaned. I looked at the Schluter site, but don’t see anything that I think will last long term (though the Quadel-FS might be a possibility). An acrylic dowel like the kind in pre-formed units will take up too much space unless I make the niche deeper (problem with that little tile at the back then). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated and EZ will be able to stop pacing … and panting.
Hi Sylvia,
You can get a 1/8″ stainless steel rod and place it across the front of the niche at the appropriate height. You can cut it long and place it across the front behind the wall tile and cut your bullnose trim around it. Or you can get one of those stainless steel baskets without the back on it and install it in front of the niche – don’t know how well that would work, though, and you likely won’t be able to find the right size. Tell EZ to chill.
Hi Roger, I want to clarify the 2nd part of my question. I put 6 mil plastic over my studs in the shower. I have my hardi backer with niche frame cut out, ready to hang. The niche itself is framed in with 2×4’s with proper slope. I have my hardi backer niche liners cut out and ready to screw into place. I want to paint the inside of the niche with a waterproofing liquid when all is in place. My problem is, how do I incorporate the wall membrane into this scenario? I hate to bother you with this, but I can’t seem to find the exact answer among the site or your answers to other people’s questions. Hope to get an answer soon. Thanks for being a wonderful you!
You would silicone the outside edge of the hole you cut out in the barrier for your niche to the backside of the cement backerboard. Then you just install all your backerboard in the niche and waterproof it with your liquid. You do not need the barrier anywhere behind your niche if you are using liquid topical waterproofing inside your niche.
After reading the question from Susan, I was wondering if I had to use bull nose on my shower niche at all? Is it possible to just put the tile on the face edge of the niche and on top of the one coming from the inside? Will this guarantee a leak? I had a shower put in my guest bathroom, with a niche done this way, and now I am worried that MY duckie will burst into flames! Also, when you say to silicone the vapor barrier behind the back of your niche, I don’t really understand that part, as I am trying to work on the Master bath shower. Thank You! gigi
Hi Gigi,
You can use whatever you want on your niche. The bullnose tiles simply give it a clean, rounded edge but if you want the simple square edge that’s fine as well. Your substrate should be absolutely waterproof before any tile is installed, so no, it isn’t going to cause a leak. Siliconing the vapor barrier to the back of the niche simply prevents water from getting behind it. As long as you have it totally sealed with silicone no water will get behind your barrier. Your ducky should be safe.
Hi Roger,
I’m putting in a niche this weekend and I have found your tutorial immensely timely and helpful. We are building a tall niche with space for 2 shelves. In photo 4 above, it appears that you didn’t sandwich two tiles together. It is our aesthetic preference not to have two tiles sandwiched together and were wondering what the underside of the tile in photo 4 looks like. Is it rough and unfinished like a typical tile? In the tile world, is there an option that has two finished sides that would allow a non-sandwiched shelf?
Thank you for all of your help.
Hey Wolfgang,
The tile in photo 4 is travertine. Any natural stone like travertine (marble, granite, etc.) can have any side or surface shaped and polished. You can get single natural stone tiles at any big box store and they are easily cut to size with a wet saw. Most places will even cut it to size for you if need be. If one side does have a rough or unfinished texture you can smooth it out by sanding it – really.
Use sandpaper and a block starting with a lower grit such as 60 and working up to the highest you can find. To polish stone we use 3000-6000 grit surfaces – but you’re not gonna find that. For the bottom of a shelf, though, a 220 or higher will suffice.
If using natural stone with striations (the veins running through it) cut the tile along the axis of the striations – that’s where the strength is. If you cut across the striations you will create a weak point in the shelf. Marbles and travertine both have natural striations – look on the back of the tile and it will be more apparent.
Thank you Roger. That clears it up perfectly.
Hi Roger,
Slowly, but surely, we are moving along with our project. We are finally ready to grout the tub surround, but I would like to double check on a question I have with our niche before I proceed. My question is this, with all of the changes of plane where the sides of the niche meet the back wall and where the side walls meet the shelves (we have 2), should they be caulked instead of grouted? I know changes of plane in the tub surround needed to be caulked where the side walls meet the back wall which made me wonder about the niche. Thank you for any advice you have.
Paula
Hey Paula,
Just caulk the back, inside corners. No need to caulk where the walls meet the niche on the outside – grout that. The inside 90 degree angles need to be caulked.
In your ever popular photo six, I’m curious as to the grout line dimension? Almost looks like an 1/8″? Also appears to be no grout line (same photo) between the bull nose tiles bordering the field tile. Last but not least, might you also recall (I don’t think Pepsi interferes w/ memory) what size the field tiles are?
Hey John,
Well, I think it was supposed to be 1/8″, although the grout lines were so inconsistent it was difficult to figure out what they actually had in mind (if anything). There were several places where there was no grout line – tiles were butted together. It ranged from that up to about 3/16″ – it was a beauty. I replaced the floor with 1/8″ grout lines – consistent ones.
The stone was 12 x 12 honed and filled travertine.
You can see the (correctly) finished product here: Travertine Tile Bathroom Remodel in Erie.
EDIT: Crap John, I thought you were talking about photo six on my ‘flawed’ page. Sorry about that. The grout lines in 90% of my showers, as well as that one, are 1/16″. There are grout lines between the bullnose and field, they are normally a bit smaller due to the slope of the niche and the angle is normally a bit skewed due to the fact that I’m 5′ 15″ tall. The tile is Florida Tile ‘Livingston Leather’ in 13″ x 13″.
Better late than never, I guess.
Dear Roger,
We a constucting a niche that looks almost identical to photo 1 with rectangular tile running vertically on the back wall of the niche. The rectangular mosaic tile is paper-faced with 1/16″ grout lines for the back wall. Our question is when we place the tile on the thinset (we will be using white thinset) in the niche with the paper side out, how long do we have to wait to remove the paper, so we can see if we need to clean any of the mastic out of the grout lines? We are concerned that if the thinset extrudes into the grout lines and we can’t remove the paper until the thinset is hard, that we won’t be able to clean the grout lines. Any advice you can share would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance,
Paula
Hey Paula,
If it is paper-faced rather than plastic faced then the glue on the paper should be water-activated. Once you set the tiles you can take a sponge and soak the paper down really well, wait about five minutes and it should peel right off of there like it was never stuck. Try it on a little piece before you start just to make sure but that’s what should happen.
Also with grout lines that small you can comb your thinset then flip your trowel over to the flat side and knock down the ridges. You want essentially just a flat layer of thinset on the wall. If you do it correctly you can literally pound on the mosaics when you set them and the pressure equalization will not allow the thinset to move – it won’t come through your grout lines. That does take practice, though. That also assists in eliminating the trowel lines from showing through the glass if they are opaque.
Love your site! We are planning a redo of our shower and wanted to add a niche. Thanks for all the info.
Tammie
Hi Tammie,
You are very welcome – glad I could help.
We have a pre-made niche. When tiling it, do you use bull nose on the inside sides or out side edges? Our tiles are white ceramic 6×8 but the bull nose is shorter and only 21/2″. The dept of the niche is at least 3″.
Hi Karen,
That depends entirely on the look you want. You can go either way with it but keep in mind that if you put the bullnose on the outside edge it will effectively ‘frame’ the niche – it will look like the niche is actually framed with tile. If you put it inside you will need to have a piece of tile cut to fill in the back of the niche. With the smaller tiles such as the ones you are using, though, it doesn’t look bad at all.
I prefer the bullnose on the inside but it’s entirely up to you and the look you want. I’m a lot of help, huh?
Hello,
Great website, it has helped me a lot. I am now tiling our shower, in which I built a recessed niche. My plan is to tile it just like photo 1 of the How to build a shower niche 4, but was wondering about spotting the back. It was a debate between doing exactly what is in picture 1 where our liner tile would be at 90 degrees, but I don’t know if I can fit two strips in the shelf. So I also thought about doing small 1″ squares that are very similar to our liner tile in the back. Either way these pieces are glued down on mesh and I was wondering how to spot them, especially is there are two pieces? Do I just put a few smaller, as you say “globs”, on there or what is the best plan. And do I worry about the side tiles covering up a bit of the pattern?
Thanks for all your help and your easy to follow instructions.
Hi Rustain,
When you use a mosaic or liner of any type for the back of the niche you do not want to ‘spot’ them. The main reason for spotting the tiles in the back of the niche is to allow adjustment of that tile either in or out without the need to pull it completely out, add or remove thinset, put it back in and check it, pull it back out…..knowwhatimean? With a mosaic or liner tile you do not need to do that.
Just spread thinset on the back wall of the niche as usual and place your tile up there. Small adjustments can be made as required without the need to spot the entire sheet.
Now, if for some reason you need to be able to adjust the entire sheet as one you can cut a piece of kerdi just a bit smaller than the back of your niche and install your mosaic or liner or whatever to that, allow it to fully cure, then install it. As long as the thinset is fully cured it will be like having one single piece of tile. That can be installed in the niche just like a regular piece of tile. (The kerdi on the back of the mosaics does not need to be in full contact or overlap anything since your niche is already completely waterproofed, right?)
The sides tiles of the niche will cover part of any ‘pattern’ or anything on the back. How much depends on how thick your tile is. You need to have a full spread of thinset behind any mosaics or small liners. Look at it like each individual 1″ square is a completely independent tile – because it is. Every one of them needs to have thinset behind it.
Hope that helps.
Thank you very much for the info, I greatly appreciate it. I have one more question, sorry, my niche is just under 4″ deep without the back mosaic in, but the problem is I am a poor planner and just realized that if I put bullnose in, I will have to cut a very small piece of tile to fill the hole. Do you have recommendations on how to get around that? Should I just try to cut the edges at 45 degrees and have them meet the sides that way?
Thanks for your time,
Rustain
Hey Rustain,
The best thing to do would be to build out that back wall (where the back mosaic goes) so that your niche, with the mosaic, is three inches deep (or however wide your bullnose is). This is usually accomplishes simply with 1/2″ or 1/4″ drywall or a combination of the two to whatever depth you need.
Do not just stick your drywall in there, you need to waterproof it too, but you knew that.
Install it with thinset, not screws. There is usually something on the other side of that niche that you don’t want the end of a screw sticking out of, like a bedroom wall.
I think I read that you should backbutter the bullnose inside the niche. Where a vertical meets a horizontal, is there grout or do they simply rest on top of each other? Its hard to tell from the photos. In fact, it looks like in photo 6 of Part 4, that the bottom intersection is mitered, where the verticals above the shelf are square, neither appear to have grout. Thanks.
Hey Ron,
You should back-butter the bullnose tiles inside the niche as well, it ensures full coverage. You can do your corners between vertical and horizontal many different ways, there really is no right or wrong, it’s whatever looks right to you. For instance: the photo number six you mentioned, If there is an L-cut in the field tile I will usually miter the corners of the niche. I do this because, to me anyway, it takes the focus away from the L-cut. If all the corners are square inside that cut everything looks ‘blocky’ to me, knowwhatimean? Just a personal preference.
Although I don’t always do it, you should leave a 1/16″ gap between your vertical and horizontal and CAULK it. I don’t always do that – but I always build my showers and know how much they’ll move. I’m just a hypocritical bastard like that.
Good eye on noticing that on photo six, though!
We have limited experience with tile. We’ve purchase ceramic tiles for our shower that are 3/8” thick.
We want to install a niche but are not sure how to finish the out side corner edges, bull nose is not available. We were shown a metal strip in our home improvement store, and not sure we are in love with the look. We’ve also been told we can miter the tiles… Are we in over our head??????? Thanks!
Hi Susan,
Unfortunately there are not many DIY options available for a ceramic without bullnose. As you’ve stated you can miter the edges but that actually takes a fair amount of experience with cutting tile and knowing when to back up, turn the tile, etc. to get a decent edge. It also helps if you have a saw with built-in mitering ability.
The only other two options is the metal strip you were shown, which can actually be purchased with any finish (bronze, etc.) you want from Schluter systems. They even used to have a few basic non-metallic colors, I’m not sure if that is still the case. If you look at the sides of the tile there is probably one side on each tile which is a lighter or different color. I’m not sure what color your tile is but it may match closely enough to look okay with just the plain edge. You can also poke around some tile stores and such and see if you can find a bullnose that either matches closely or contrasts it correctly enough that it would look all right.
You may also look around for a granite or marble that would look good with your tile and find a professional to bullnose the edges and line the interior of your niche with that. Or glass tile for the inside of the niche. Or a pencil rail listello around the edges and butt the tile edges against it.
That’s all I can think of…
Is there a way to prove that the tile installer used premixed gray thinset(mastic) and not the real powdered thinset? Both mfg. of our tile recommended white thin -set mortar. We used natural stone(travertine) in 2 of the showers and porcelain 12×24 and 24×24 tile in the other shower? Ceilings were tiled also.
We had another tiler look at the installation. He removed 1 travertine tile. The color was gray. I do have some photos.
The travertine showers smell like wet stone. Is that normal? I have some subway travertine tile that were never used. My husband ran some water over them and had me smell them. That is that smell in our showers.
Question of what he used on the shower floor of the travertine shower with the pebble rocks.
Have photos of that also.
Thanks, Deb
Hi Deb,
If you can scrape some of the thinset off the back of the tile or the wall where the tile was removed you can tell if it is actual thinset (powdered) or premixed (mastic). The real stuff will either come off in one big chunk and feel kind of like a sandy rock of sorts (it consists of concrete, sand and lime) or it will scrape off like hard sand, in other words it won’t come off in a big chunk but will scrape away in sandy layers. If it is the premixed crap it will scrape off in a big thin layer and look and feel like elmer’s glue. If you fold the layer it won’t bust apart. It may fold or crack, but it won’t bust like thinset will.
Needless to say he should have used white thinset at least for the travertine. If it is actually pre-mixed ‘thinset’ AND grey, well, it should be replaced. The installation at best is incorrect with the grey adhesive whether it is mastic or thinset.
The smell in the shower should dissipate over a couple of weeks. That is simply the rock releasing natural gasses from the mineral deposits in the fissures of the stone – it’s completely normal and it will go away.
You can send me photos at FloorElf@FloorElf.com if you would like me to take a look at them. I may or may not be able to tell what was used on the floor.
I only had a simple question about cleaning my SANDED grout ( I say that with 100% confidence now after reading your info) but I have found myself reading all your info just because it is so funny! Who knew a tile guy could be so entertaining? You write like a professional and you need to send a few of these article to some newspapers, websites, or magazines and get yourself a little weekly column going!!! $$$$$ Thanks for your posts. I’m headed out now for my tiling supplies now …. I feel inspired to do a tile project!
Hey Mary,
Glad you’ve enjoyed your short trot through my brain! I think when you spend most of your time in other people’s showers (legally) it forces you to entertain yourself (ethically) so I’m just passin’ on my regular (I was gonna type ‘normal’ but aaaaahh…) thought process.
It just happens to be a bit warped – glad you found it useful.
Thanks for the kind words.