Flawed
Contrary to what regular readers of my blog may believe this is not a page about my personality. This is a page with photos of improper tile installations. Please do not make the same mistakes. At the bottom of this page you will find information about, well, this page and how it came about.
If you have arrived at this page without searching for something akin to ’tile butchery’ please realize these are not correct installation procedures! The captions beneath the photos are my smart-ass remarks – they are not serious advice. 
It is simply how I tear out crap like this without my head exploding. I’m certain by now this is a very long page – don’t worry, it’ll be like a train wreck – you just can’t stop looking.
And I made ‘em big – real big. Hey, don’t complain! I’m the one that had to tear all this crap out. I did it so you can partake in the full glory of what happens when your contractor either doesn’t know better or just doesn’t care. If you’re warped like me you can click on each image for a very, very large version of each photo.
This is why I have Guedo. 
Enjoy.
1. Incorrect substrate for Ditra - that's not gonna stick!
2. Incorrect substrate for Ditra - See - No adhesion
3. Sloppy tile placement - spot for used razor blades I guess
4. Do not install tile while drunk!
5. Inconsistent grout lines, lippage
6. Inconsistent grout lines, lippage, not even, etc., etc...
7. Hey look! More crap work.
8. Just lousy installation, lack of detail - somebody didn't care.
9. One inch grout line against ceiling - lack of planning
10. Crap cuts around door jamb - not undercut. Just fill that in with grout.
11. Crap cuts around door jamb - just plain sloppy
12. One inch grout line under, well, half of the curb????
13. Absolutely zero coverage!
14. Half on, half off???
15. Just put those screws wherever you want
16. Just put those screws wherever you want - it'll hold
17. Seriously incorrect curb waterproofing technique
18. Pre-slope? Who needs a pre-slope? See the big hump in the middle? That's the bottom of the drain!
19. The incorrect way to seal your tub spout
20. Ummm, it won't stick - really, it won't stick
21. Why is my grout cracking? I don't get it...
22. Wood doesn't move, does it? That'll be fine...just stick the tile right to it.
23. Little bit of lippage
24. See - lippage.
25. Just go ahead and tape that down, tile doesn't need to stick there.
26. Ummm, no. It's two screws fer cryin out loud! Just remove it!
27. And still didn't get it in one piece.
28. Just go from the backerboard straight onto chipboard - it'll be fine.
29. Yup, that'll stick just fine...
30. Just cut that wherever, nobody will notice
31. Forgot to put the bolts in? Just cut it out and put 'em back.
32. Nah, the tile must be flawed. The installation is perfect.
33. Yup, just substandard tile. No reason to see what's under it...
34. I guess it will transfer the crack through - if you use straight concrete
35. That's right - straight concrete. Just say no!
36. We don't need no steeenking pre-slope. See the shiny stuff? Water...See the big hump it the middle? BOTTOM of the drain flange...
37. Must be substandard grout. Yeah, nothing wrong with the substrate...
38. Yeah see, the grout is flawed.
39. I'm tellin' ya, the grout is crap. It has nothing to do with the substrate...
40. See, all of it. Flawed. The grout, it's crap...
41. Yup, the grout, it...shit. Nevermind...
42. If you're gonna screw through the liner you may as well use pressure treated lumber
43. Yes, that is water. Sitting stagnant on the floor, beneath everything...
44. Put a lot of screws in there, make sure it doesn't fly away...
45. And yes, that is water, again - or still
46. I've aaaahhh, run out of words.
47. I chipped it out and water rushed out - seriously. It's called releasing static pressure
48. Water will never get there, don't worry about it.
49. As long as you think its sealed up tight...
50. See that space between the concrete and wall? It's full of water. Just sitting there.
51. Just nail that up there reeeeeeeeeal goooood.
52. How's it gonna rust, it's waterproof, right?
53. Just nail it up there so it doesn't fly away - get it flat
I have searched about every online thesaurus I could find for a name for this page. Nothing really seemed to fit perfectly. I call it hackery, but outside of my particular profession the depth of that word is lost. So ‘flawed’ is what I’ve decided to go with, although it barely conveys the absolute shit work you see on this page. Below I have listed some of what I’ve found, if you can think of anything better please feel free to leave it in the comments below.
I hope I haven’t ruined your dinner.
Synonyms for ‘Shit work’
- Batter
- Butcher
- Deface
- Disfigure
- Dismember
- Distort
- Lame
- Mangle
- Mar
- Mess Up
- Ravage
- Spoil
- Assault
- Clobber
- Maul
- Mutilate
- Pummel
- Ruin
- Thrash
- Damage
- Impair
- Maim
- Scar
- Smudge
- Sully
- Taint
- Tarnish
Add a Brilliant Retort
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HELP! So we built a house in July 2011. We paid $2800 for a custom shower in our master bathroom. Since then the grout in one corner in particular keeps cracking, crumbling and falling out. Other areas of the shower were doing the same. The first time it happened you could see the wall between the tiles. They came and scraped it out with box cutters and packed it with sanded grout in the corner but not the other places. We had to call them to come back and fix the rest. Within a month it did it again and they came back box cutters in hand and packed it with grout. Now 3 months later it is beginning to do the same thing. I called and met with the guy who does their tile work today and he said that because the one wall is along an exterior wall it will keep doing this but he would come back Monday and re grout the corner again. He also said the job foreman’s shower had to be re grouted within the first year as well so it’s normal. I asked him if there wasn’t some other kind of grouting material that could be used instead of the stuff they’ve been using and he said he didn’t know. Well the big problem is I don’t know either. I paid someone to do it because I am clueless when it comes to….well anything related to building a house!!!! I feel like more can be done. Am I wrong? Is this normal for the grout to be crumbling and falling out??? What are my options?
shit. really?
The fact that it is crumbling and coming out is normal. It’s a change of plane – they will move in different directions and sometimes at different rates. The fact that it’s normal, however, does not mean that it is correct.
Any change of plane needs to be filled with a flexible sealant. Corners should have caulk in them – not grout. As long as they keep filling them with grout it will keep cracking. Forever. Find a silicone that matches your grout and have them remove all the grout – one more time – and use silicone instead. That will solve your problem.
Silicone can compensate for the movement – grout can not, it will crack. But you already knew that.
Thank you for the quick response! And yes I am a pro at cracking grout…just not fixing it
So this silicone, sorry Tiling for Dummies couldn’t even help this girl, is this something I can find at Home Depot or Ace Hardware? Is there a certain brand I should look for? I’m hoping to have it ready on Monday when they come to fix the shower. Thank you, thank you, thank you again!!! 
If you want it to match your grout exactly you’ll need to get a brand like laticrete latasil or another manufacturers brand which comes in as many different colors as grout. If you want to get it immediately, and don’t have anyone around you who carries specialty silicones like a tile shop, you can get it at a big box store or ace hardware. You can normally get it in beige, white, dark brown or black, and maybe almond or tan.
There are a few different colors and if you don’t need to to match exactly it’ll be just fine. Just make sure to ask, and get, 100% silicone. Do not let them give you ‘siliconized acrylic’ or acrylic-based, or anything else. Just 100% silicone. It’s over by the caulk.
The exasperation at the beginning of my previous answer was for the ‘pros’ who did not know this – that irritates the shit out of me. It’s fairly basic knowledge for any professional.
You are a life saver!!! I am not even kidding you. This house was our dream and we saved a long time for it. Having things like this happen after surviving construction & closing just seems to make it seem worse then it probably is. I will make sure to get 100% silicone. We do have a tile shop in town (we live in a pretty rural area) but I am not letting anyone touch the shower until we have it. I have chunks of the grout that I saved to show the tile guy so I shouldn’t have any problem matching the color. If so just getting close will be an improvement. One last question and I promise to not bug you anymore, at the base where the shower wall meets the floor, they used the tan colored grout but the floor has black grout. When they applied the tan grout it bled into the black grout and makes the base of the shower look like it has a horrible calcium deposit problem. Is there a way to dye this area to make it look a little cleaner?
Black sharpie?
Just kidding.
You can use this, though: Aquamix grout colorant.
Ok so that really made me laugh because embarrassingly enough…I did consider the black sharpie haha but since you have recommended the right product, I will put the cap back on now. Thanks Again!!!
Help again. So I bought the Laticrete Latisil and talked to the tiler. He won’t use the silicone because he said it just washes out and he wouldn’t be able to re grout after that happens because the grout won’t stick to the tile and he isn’t willing to replace the tile. He said he had something called flex grout that he can use but he said that will also wash out, that they need to keep re grouting a few times and it will stop crumbling and falling out. I am kind of at a fork in the road as to what to do. As far as I can tell if I do the silicone myself or have someone come in to do it then it voids my warranty but continuing on this path with the contractor means they will keep re grouting until my warranty runs out and then I am still up a creek. What would you do if you didn’t know how to do the tile yourself?
Hi Danielle,
That has to be one of the worst lines of horseshit I’ve heard! Silicone DOES NOT wash out of anything. GROUT WILL NOT LAST! That’s why it’s cracking. He can do it a couple more times or a thousand more times, the end result will be cracked grout. Don’t know what he is referring to when he says flex grout, but being grout I doubt it would ‘wash’ out of anything either.
If Latasil washed out I seriously doubt that the largest tile installation manufacturers would sell it as their preferred sealant for showers and wet areas, eh? 100% silicone is difficult to work with and get a clean bead if you don’t know what you’re doing – that’s the only downside of it. If you could get him to agree to work with it I doubt he would do it well – it takes experience. It sounds like there is no reason he would have that.
I think you’re right – they’ll just keep doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. That, by the way, was Einstein’s definition of insanity – I tend to agree. They’ll do that until your warranty runs out. IF(!) everything else in your shower has no problems I would just hire someone else to silicone it.
Better yet – let them regrout it, then turn around and hire someone else to dig it out and silicone it without telling them. Then if you have any issues with your shower they’re still on the hook for the warranty. If there’s ever a problem they can’t blame it on the silicone – it is correct by written TCNA standards. That would be my choice. It doesn’t look like you’ll get anywhere with them and they are obviously not familiar with the entire range of correct standards.
I just came back to the world of the living after an insane bout with the flu, I had them re grout it in the mean time because I was home anyway. I agree with you, we will wait until this grout begins to crack (approx 1-3 months if it continues to do what it has up to this point) and then we are yanking the entire shower and having someone else come in to re-tile. The “soap boxes” or boxes to put razors like you have in one of your above pictures is starting to do the same thing so at this point I think it’s safe to say we hate this shower and we are concerned if the work that you can see is this shoddy then what does it look like beneath the tile? Loved the tile work on your Tile Art website by the way.
Hey Roger,
), but we are putting in a new shower upstairs and we want primo work – something that will last – like your work. Know anyone in Seattle? If not, how would you recommend I find someone?
I am in Seattle and I am wondering what would be the best way to choose a good shower/tile installer. I barely managed to do my tub surround (omg that was hard!
Hey Matt,
Shaughnn Lee-Capua of Capua Custom Tile & Stone is right up your way in Kent. Give him a call at (425) 306-8884. He does excellent work! You can see a bunch of it on his facebook page here: If he can’t take care of you he’ll know who can. Tell him Roger from TileArt sent you.
We just had our bathroom tiled. I’m not impressed with the work. I have washed the tile since the installer left because there was grout film still on them. I have used a plastic “grout cleaning” brush on the grout because there was still some on the tiles and some grout is higher on the tiles than others, but in some spots the grout has fallen out when i hit it with the brush. Yes, holes in grout!!! I’m suprized at how much residue is coming off when I wash it. It seems like the grout just keeps rubbing off when I scrub it. The grout was put in 9 days ago. What should I do? It is nonsanded grout. The caulk is gritty in the few places he put it. Some of the floor tiles are slightly uneven. Does this mean he didn’t put enough stuff under them? It also seems he didn’t put enough grout in the floor tiles. “the spaces are to deep?” My husband wants to pull it all out, but I hope we can fix it. I’d send pix if I could.
Thanks,
Heather
After reading more of your posts, I see that the grout should feel like cement. When I wipe my dry finger on the dry grout it comes off like chalk. He did use an additive in the grout. Does this mean we need to remove all the grout and start over? I didn’t touch the tile or grout untill today. (9 days after install)
Hi Heather,
Unsanded grout shrinks considerably as it cures, that may be why the grout lines seem low. Unless your grout lines are 1/16″ or less they really should have sanded grout. I know the manufacturers say 1/8″, but when doing that you normally need to go over them twice to get correct height in the lines. There could be a number of reasons the tile is not even – all of them installation related. Although cupping can cause lippage to a certain degree, this is usually less that about 1/32″ or so. Nothing you would really notice.
While the grout may be able to be repaired (removing and replacing with sanded grout) there isn’t much you can do with the tile now short of tearing it out and replacing it correctly.
EDIT: I just saw your second reply – yes, you need to remove that grout. It’s the only way that you’ll be able to fix it.
Roger,
Any tips on sealing a steam shower? I am planning on using the Schluter system. Just a bit nervous on the ceiling. I down loaded your book and just about peed my pants while reading it.
Hi Bill,
A steam shower is a completely different animal and demands very exacting techniques like rolled expansion joints at changes of plane – stuff not needed in regular showers. Go to Laticrete’s manual download page and at the bottom you can download their steam room technical design manual, that will explain a lot of it.
Hi,
i am renovating my 25sqft bathroom on the second floor. i have a 5/8 inch bare subfloor. i need to know what to do next. the previous height was 1/4 plywood over the 5/8 inch subfloor. i was thinking of putting tile but i do not know how to proceed. should i put a backerboard over the subfloor directly then tile, or ditra over subfloor and then tile? i cannot go higher than 1/4 inch because i will have to then change the flange height. please advise
Hey Rob,
You can use either one but you should have another layer of plywood beneath whichever you choose. You can use Ditra-XL over what you have there.
Rather than raising the flange (I assume you mean the toilet flange?) you can just get a thicker wax ring or wax extender.
Roger,
I tiled our bathroom shower walls and floor and the bathroom floor. After I grout all the tile, how long should it set prior to using the shower. Should I seal the grout prior to using the shower and if so what grout sealer do you recommend. I used the Schluter Kerdi in the shower (walls and floor) and Ditra on the bathroom floor.
Great website, best one I have found and have referred to it each step of my tiling project.
Mike
Hey Mike,
With regular cementitious grout you’ll be fine using the shower after 24 hours. You do not need to seal the grout before using the shower. You don’t NEED to seal the grout at all. It does, however, assist greatly with cleaning the grout. If you use the shower before you seal just make sure that if/when you seal you get the grout very clean. Anything on the grout when you seal is gonna be there permanently. I use Miracle Sealant’s 511 Impregnator Pro or Stonetechs Impregnator Pro.
I’m a first time bathroom remodler. I have chipped out all of the old tile but there is still some mortar left on the floor. I was going to use a self leveler to make the floor fresh again. Question is: Is there a standard height that the toilet flange is suppose to be off the floor (before tile)?
Hey Frank,
Nope, the flange can sit right on the floor. If you need height you just use a thicker wax ring.
Roger:
Great site (insite)
I have a 5′ x 12′ bathroom, 30″ x 8′ Suntouch mat, and Ditra. Currently I have new 3/4″ Plywood on 16′ centers…
The new floor thickness works better if I don’t put hardi-board on the floor, i’m replacing 1/2″ subfloor and 3/4″ hardwood floor. That’s right, hardwood floor in the bathroom – Gotta love the 70′s.
Do I need 1/4″ hardiboard on top of the 3/4″ plywood floor for strength? …1/2″hardiboard…. thicker?
Thanks
Hey Tony,
Neither thickness will add any structural support to your floor. Backerboard has absolutely no significant structural strength at all. You really should have another layer of 3/8″ plywood over the 3/4″ layer, then the suntouch, ditra, tile. It *has* been done without the second layer of ply (not gonna say who did that…) but standards demand a minimum 1 1/8″ double layer of ply over your joists. You don’t need the backerboard at all, though. Ditra can go right to plywood.
Hi, Roger:
First of all, this website it great! It’s very generous of you to take the time to answer all of these questions. Thank you for this!
I recently had my kitchen remodeled and the grout along the counter top now has a very deep crack. My contractor came in to “fix” it by using something that came out of a caulking gun. The color didn’t match very well either. He says cracking is normal when you turn on the heat…things contract and expand. Is this B.S.? Should I just call a tile expert and have them fix this? Needless to say his fix didn’t work.
Thanks for your time!
Hey Kristin,
Cracking CAN happen with heat if the installation is improperly grouted. It is not normal. Not sure what he filled the grout line with but even with cracking at the very least it should have been regrouted. The cracking is likely due either to movement or improper coverage. You should have a professional come in and take a look at it. Any tile guy worth his salt will be able to tell you what was done improperly and what needs to be done to fix it.
Roger,
Love the site, it’s awesome for the DYI’s in the world. I have a question. The man at Menard’s said I didn’t need to use a grout with Marble and you recommend that you do.
The question is, I want to use a 3″ cut to go around top of the floor as a “mop board” style trim. The question is, does that go on before the floor tile or set on top of it?
First time Marble installer and this will definately be a challange. But it’s that or nothing for we can’t afford to hire it done. We’ve done ceramic tile and it turned out beautiful in the kitchen and bathroom. So fingers crossed. Thank you in advance and also want to say….Love your sense of humor!
Diana
Hi Diana,
You can set marble with 1/16″ grout – you WANT to do that – do NOT butt them. The base goes on after the floor is set. Install the floor then set the base on 1/16″ spacers so there will be a 1/16″ space between the floor and base. You want to silicone that gap rather than grout.
Hi Roger, I am about to lay tile in my bathroom. The floor is only 5×3, Its a very small bathroom. I have 7sq ft of heated floor mat to be put down. The durock is already thinset to the floor. I was wondering if I can Use the Lactice water proofing membrane over the durock and place the heated lines on top and tile over that or should I thinset the heated lines in and then put on the membrane and thentile over that.
Ive noticed you recommened ditra.. but for such a small area would either of these methods be ok? I know you hear it alot but you really are an awesome guy for doing what you do on this site. Thank you so much for everything you do. I love the flow and humer of your page.
Hey David,
Do you mean the ‘laticrete’ waterproofing membrane? You typed ‘lactice’ – never heard of it.
If so, then either way would work. for best optimization of the membrane it would be best to float over the heating element with thinset or SLC, let that cure, then use the membrane and tile over that. The liquid topical membranes like redgard, hydroban, hydrobarrier, etc., also have crack-suppression properties which assist in compensating for any substrate movement beneath your tile. This is only true when installed directly beneath the tile rather than beneath the heating wires. So doing it over the wire would best utilize the products in your case.
You are correct it is laticrete haha. Thanks for such a quick response . Also Im pretty sure your positin on this is thinset…but two guys at lowes were very convincing. For applying tile to the shower walls and floor, They had me get the big pink bucket of laticrete mastic. I also bought a grey and white bag of Laticrete multipurpose white thinset just in case. Should one be used on the walls and one on the floor? I read the whole page you have on tile adhesive. Im just worried i may have misread something. Thank you again..Im getting ready to start with your response.
Use the powdered thinset in the bag you mix with water to install all your tile in the bathroom. Take the bucket of mastic back and throw it at the uneducated employees attempting to sell you incorrect products for your shower tile installation – and give ‘em my website address (I’ll be nice). Or keep it and tile your kitchen backsplash and fireplace.
Which color of thinset to use is determined only by the color of your tile. If you are using a lighter tile or natural stone use the white, darker colors get gray.
hello , like your site i have been in construction for thirty years. I install cabinets,laminate and trim so i have been around the tile guys for many years. That being said, i have added tile to my arsenal. im doing tile slate shower with 1×2 mosaic mix in with 4×4 field . the 1×2 mosaics came on a webbing pre gaped with grout lines between 1/16 to 1/8, but my 4×4′s are set at 1/4 inch. Should i buy un-sanded for the mosaics or just use the sanded for all…or if i use un-sanded will it match the sanded, or mix up my sanded more wet to get in smaller grout lines,
“Buy the way my mosaics were falling off there webbing what a pain to install…lol…omg”
Hey Dave,
You can use sanded for all of it – no need to mix it thinner either – that weakens the grout and may lead to efflorescence. You can get sanded and unsanded in the same color and, although the same color, they will look slightly different due to the sand.
Hello Dave. Can I impose on a “tile” website? Roger has already helped me with my tile questions – we are filing a complaint with the Registar of Contractors in AZ against the G.C. That includes the tile sub, AC sub and roofing…etc
Can you tell me, since you are a cabinet expert, what kind of kitchen cabinet is the absolute cheapest, dirt cheapest, plastic, tin sounding cabinets can a licensed contractor buy? I live in AZ. There are lots of places that advertise cheap cabinets but the ones installed in my home are so cheap when the sink leaked the cabinet floor under the pipes pealed from what ever the cabinet was made from. It’s like wall paper was glued to a surface to make a kitchen cabinet. Where does a licensed contractor buy or what kind of place sells commercial grade cheapest cabinets? I am not looking for the name of a business just what type of business would he have gone to for purchase? Any ideas would help me. Thanks.
Roger,
I’ve taken on the daunting task of providing my wife the bathroom lifestyle to which she (wants to be) accustomed. That said, I ran across your site doing research. The 0369 in me requires precise planning before conducting any operation and your site is an awesome resource. Especially enjoyed the dinked up tile jobs on this page. Great site and outstanding recommendations. I’ll be refering to this often during the next 30 days. Semper Fi.
Thanks Charles. If there is anything I can help with just let me know.
I wanted to name this page ‘Welcome to the Suck!’ but didn’t think many would get it.
Semper Fi from 0351 – we don’t plan shit, we just blow it up!
One question more, actually two questions, which I hope (and I’ll bet you hope, too) will be my last. We’re working on the sandstone project in the bathroom, and have decided (with your help) to use Spectralock epoxy grout. This sandstone is not totally level, and it’s, well, sandy. We’re planning to use epoxy grout, because we’re afraid that regular grout will require so much washing that the grout colors will change slightly (or a lot). However, we’re even more afraid that the epoxy grout won’t come out of the little bumps and ridges in the sandstone leaving us with an unattractive mess. So, questions #1: are we better off with a grout bag (keeping in mind that neither of us has won a cake-decorating award in the last, say, 100 years, or should we just apply the grout the regular way and wash the h%$^ out of it. That’s question 1, and we’ll do whatever you say (how’s that for a power position?) Question #2: We used an enhancer and sealer on the sandstone before installation, and the color is too dark. Once we’re done grouting it, is there a product that will remove the sealer, so we can put a lighter sealer on it. (guessing the answer is “no” on that one, and we’ll have to learn to love our small, dark bathroom that has taken us hundreds of hours to finish) That’s the home improvement biz
Thanks again for all your advice, the bathroom is turning out beautifully, and looks custom and upscale.
Hi Ann,
Don’t even bother with the grout bag – way more trouble than what they’re worth. Your best bet would be to get some grout release. It’s a lot like sealer but doesn’t fully cure on the surface, washes off with water when you wash the grout, and prevents grout from sticking to the surface of the stone.
There is no product which will lighten the enhancing aspects of the sealer. Sorry.
Roger,
In the military, we’d call stuff like this FUBAR. (The cleaned-up definition is Fouled Up Beyond All Recognition.) In military aviation, we’d call it Buffoonery.
Thanks for all you’ve done on this site. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Brian
Hey Brian,
I’m a former Marine, so I’m VERY familiar with FUBAR. As well as BOHICA, Sierra Hotel, CATFU, and SNAFU.
Quite a few describe these showers very well. 
I knew there was something about your style of humor and the manner in which you educate the masses… My son was the youngest marine in his group at boot camp. 17. He is now a SS and is stationed in Virginia with all the working spies…The kind of job where he says “mom I can’t answer that…” I ask but he just smiles and shakes his head no. His father was a Master Chief in the Navy – they have very animated conversations…
The photos of the bad, bad, really bad tile work are amazing and very educational for me. I now know some of the correct terminology and understand better the mess in my own house. I can see things in my house that look exactly like some of the photos. Especially concerning the cracked grout, cut work around door jambs, not enough coverage. One in particular #37 looks like you took the photo in my home – I need to read about substrate. Thanks.
Thank you, Roger! I revisited Schluter’s website with the link which you so kindly provided and will visit a few of their dealers in my area.
You really are special and make the Internet what it can be–a precious source of knowledge.
Conrad
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