Different types and styles of shower niches
Completed simple shower niche
Here is a photo of the niche I’ve used for these posts and these series of photos. If you simply want a regular hole in the wall the exact size of one tile this is all you need. If you don’t have any idea what the hell I’m talking typing about, start at the beginning here: Building a Shower Niche Part 1. More likely you’ll want to bling that bad boy out in order to make the neighbors and in-laws jealous, no?
That is what I will cover in this post. Hopefully you are reading this before you’ve cut a hole in your wall or anything else. The size, shape, location, just about everything depends on what you want your niche to look like. I will only be able to cover some very general examples since there are, literally, endless possibilities for a shower niche.
If you have any questions pertaining to your particular installation you can always leave a comment below. I do answer every one of them – I’m just super-cool like that. 
Photo 1
You can click on any of these photos for a ridiculously large very detailed view of my lack of photography skills.
Every (except one) niche on this page was built in exactly the same way as I’ve described with these posts with only small variations in sizing, placement, etc. Small changes just to enable the design elements.
The first (photo 1) is simply a taller niche with a shelf in it (for your rubber ducky). The elements that make this niche stand out are the glass and travertine liner that run into the sides of the niche and the same liner on the back wall of the niche turned 90 degrees. Other than those it is built exactly the same as the one above.
To create a shelf in this niche I’ve used two of the bullnose tiles, the same tile used for the sides of the niche, and placed them back to back. You can use an epoxy or just regular thinset to sandwich them together. That’s it – that is your shelf.
Photo 2
To install it just place it into the niche and figure out exactly where you want it to be. Measure from the bottom of it to the bottom of your niche and that is the size to cut the first two side pieces of your niche. They are the two pieces below the shelf supporting it.
The order of the pieces for the interior of the niche are back wall first, bottom piece, two short side pieces – the ones you just cut, shelf pieces – the two that you just sandwiched, top piece of bullnose, then the two remaining side pieces cut and installed after everything else. This ensures an exact fit for all your pieces.
In photo 2 is the niche in the other side of the same shower. Both niches are the same size. Due to framing they are not placed in the same spot in the field tile, though. In photo 2 the sides do not line up with grout lines. And you probably never would have noticed it. 
That is exactly what I mean when I say type that it is not always possible to lay out the niche where you want it. Framing dictates everything you attempt to build into the wall. if it is a supporting (load-bearing) wall you don’t have many choices without major reconstruction. So either move the niche four inches or rebuild the side of your house. You choose.
Photo 3
Photo 3 is another simple niche like the one at the top except it is built into a subway-style shower. The big thing about getting these to look right is ensuring the pattern follows through in the back of the niche.
The order of installation is the same – back, bottom, top, sides. However, the side pieces are twice as long as the height of the field tile, make sure you line up the grout lines or it won’t look right. It will look ‘busy’ (that’s what designers say, I have no idea what it means. I guess you don’t want your tile to look like it has a job.)
You can always offset the grout lines in the sides of the niche with the field tile, however, in doing that you must also offset the back of the niche with those grout lines. That will break the flow of your horizontal grout lines. You don’t want that, keep the horizontal grout lines flowing consistently.
Photo 4
Photo 4 is another subway style shower with a shelf in the niche. The order of installation is the same, however, you need to find a larger tile to use for your shelf. The subway tile in the field will not work, they are too small. Your rubber ducky will fall down.
In this case I cut down some of the same tile in a larger size for the top, bottom, and shelf of the niche. Notice, though, how the pattern still flows all the way through the niche. Keep it consistent.
In both subway showers the liner is running above the niche rather than through it. You can do it however you want – its your shower. Whatever looks best to you is the right way. If you do run the liner through the niche, run it all the way through. Don’t stop the liner on the sides, have regular bullnose all the way around the niche, then continue the liner across the back of the niche. It breaks up the liner and looks like an afterthought.
I’ll send Guedo after your ass! 
So don’t do that.
Photo 5
Number 5 is a double niche with shelves in the center. There are several aspects of these that really make them stand out.
First, obviously, is the fact that the backs of them are a different color – the same as the liner. Really makes them stand out.
I normally do not place the shelves in the center of the niche, no real reason to have four identically sized shelves. On these, though, I decided to line them up with the diamond I placed between them. Flow Baby! Yeah! 
You will notice, however, that the layout and everything else is exactly the same as the rest – top and bottom line up with a grout line and the design and consistency flows through the niches. Make it look like it fits! That is the secret and the difference between a professionally designed and installed niche and a hole in the wall.
Photo 6
Photo 6 is the same as all the others with a shelf in them. Noticing a theme here? 
There are a couple of differences.
You will notice the diagonal (on-point) row flowing through it. You want to keep the pattern consistent so that if you look at the niche straight on the grout lines do not jump, break, or move. They are consistent.
The shelf is also lined up with a grout line. The flow is more important than a specific size or height for the shelf.
You will also notice (I hope by now) that the bottom of the niche does not line up with a grout line. Remember when I said typed that it wasn’t always possible or feasible? That is what I meant. In this case it wasn’t very feasible. If I did line it up on the top and bottom it would either be 17″ tall with a shelf – that’s small, or 30″ tall – that is ridiculously huge. It actually looks better with the L-cuts. If you choose a grout that matches your tile you will never notice it. Or, you know, if you haven’t read any of my posts – ever – you would probably never notice it.
It’s all right to break the rules! Well, the design rules, anyway. There is nothing set in stone (that’s a pun, in case you missed it. A tile guy pun.) If it looks good to you do it. I’m just giving you guidelines to have a more professional looking installation.
Photo 7
Number 7 is another rule breaker. A couple of ways. By now you should be able to spot them. Pay attention, there will be a quiz later.
The only grout line that matches is the top. Neither the sides nor bottom match. Looks like hell, huh? Or at least doesn’t look right. It’s because I did not build the niche spaces, the framer, homeowner, and drywaller did. Please do not do that then expect your tile guy to create perfection. Perfection does not start with the tile guy, it starts with the plan. Plan first! Whether you are the tile guy (or girl) or not.
I do have it there for a reason, though. Notice the vertical grout lines in the niche sides? Those are six inches deep. That’s great if you have the space in the wall. But, if you don’t you do not want that back piece to be 1/2″ wide, that looks like hell.
I’ll get guedo again so don’t do that.
The bottom of those niches is also a solid surface material rather than bullnose tile. These are products such as corian, surrell, granite slab, etc. If you use something like that it allows you to extend the niche shelf out from the wall a bit.
Photo 8
Photo 8 is (an awesome shower!) a marble shower. All of the shower walls, as well as the ceiling, are on-point (installed diagonally). I want to apologize ( I don’t do that often, by the way 
) because this is the best photo I have of the niches themselves. I was so happy with the outcome of that shower I nearly pissed myself with joy and forgot to get good photos of the niches. So I’ll just have to describe how awesome they are.
The wall the niches are installed into is a diagonal wall and, as such, I was able to make the niches a foot deep. Talk about rubber ducky storage!
The most difficult thing about placing niches in an on-point shower is that you will not be able to line up the grout lines. No big deal, it doesn’t make a difference in this application. The hard part is making the cuts in the field tile up to the niche look right. They have to be perfect. Install your entire niche and hold up your tile to the sides of it exactly in the right spot to mark them. Then take your time cutting them. If you slip or make a small mistake – start over. Just take your time, it’s worth it.
All the sides and top and bottom of these niches are full tiles which I bullnosed on the edge. Doing this eliminates any grout lines inside the niche. Nice and clean. The secret to this application is to install the entire niche then cut the field tile to it rather than the other way around.
Photo 9
Photo 9 is another marble shower (I like marble). This particular niche has a solid piece of marble slab on the bottom for the shelf, which allows it to stick out a bit, and a small arch in the top.
This is only a small arch so it only had four pieces making up the top of it. If you click on it you can barely make out how they step around the arch.
You can do this with regular bullnose or, with natural stone, you can bullnose custom pieces to fit. Doing that also allows this niche to be five inches deep without vertical grout lines in the sides of the niche.
You will also notice that the sides extend past the vertical grout lines in the field tile. The grout lines follow through in the back of the niche – everything lines up.
Photo 10
Number 10 is another arch. In this case the arch is framed. That simply means that the bullnose pieces are placed on the outside of the niche to form a frame around it.
Notice, again, how the pattern follows through the niche. This is one way to do an arch with ceramic or porcelain and regular sized bullnose. Doing this you can also make the niche as deep as you want since the tiles inside are simply field tiles which are cut down to size.
Photo 11
There is another way to so an arch with regular ceramic or porcelain and standard bullnose. That is photo 11.
The bullnose is placed inside the niche as normal but the top pieces are cut into smaller (shorter) pieces to conform to the slope of the arch.
Install everything around and in the back of the niche first then do the top arch pieces. With the field tile already installed it helps guage the sizes you need for the arch. Try to work it out so that they are all the same size.
And follow your pattern through the niche, damnit! Oh, sorry, did I mention that before?
All of the niches except number 7 (that was already framed in and finished before I showed up) were built nearly identically. The same as the simple niche I’ve described in all these posts, the one at the top of the page.
They were all framed the same (except the arches) and cut and created after part of the field tile was installed. Doing it in that manner will ensure that your design flows and your niche is not an afterthought. I hate that!
Don’t do that! You know what happens.
If you have any question pertaining to your specific niche installation just leave a comment below and I’ll get back with you as soon as elvenly possible. (That’s just like ‘humanly possible’ – but with elves.)
Hi Roger,
I found your web site when I went looking for a “how-to” on installing a shower niche.
Good writing in your “How to” pages. There’s a LOT of really bad instructional writing on the ‘net. Yours is a pleasant exception.
I’m re-doing our 35+ year-old bathroom. ‘Bout time my wife says. I’ve stripped the 3′ x 6’ tub/shower area back to the studs. I was planning on using greenboard and Hydroban as a substrate for tiling. BTW we’re using a 6 x 12 marble-look porcelain tile.
I noted that you warned against using Hyroban over drywall. Would that include greenboard as well? If not that, then what is recommended?
I was planning on using the Kerdi strip product and Hydroban to waterproof the corners.
Hi Dan,
Any type of gypsum product is not approved for use behind hydroban. It needs to be cement backerboard. Fiberboard is the easiest to use, hardibacker would be the next easiest.
Subject: niche SHELVES. What a helpful and enlightening article! I see u use (one method of) bullnose sandwiched together to create a shelf within a niche. For some reason I don’t like that idea (though I don’t mean to be critical of an expert). And we don’t want glass (for several reasons).
Mine’s a long story, but here’s the short way to ask my question: Is there any reason I can’t / shouldn’t use a “natural quartz” sidesplash as the shelf in a niche?
This seams to be the simplest way to get a shelf in a niche (without having to buy an entire box or slab of granite, marble, etc. Will this “natural quartz” product endure the wet/humid environment of a shower stall (at least as well as marble or granite, etc.) ?
Specifically, the quartz sidesplash I’m proposing to use as a niche shelf is Lowe’s Item # 369374.
PS: the niche itself will be framed (not pre-fab); with bottom, top, back & sides to be the field tile and/or bullnose of same.
Thank you.
I used pieces cut from a 12″ x 12″ marble tile to make shelves for my niche. My local tile store ordered a single tile for me. Maybe yours will, too.
Hi Gary,
Absolutely no reason at all not to use that. It will work well. Quartz will be fine in your shower.
Thanks, Roger, for the speedy response! I’m excited that my proposed solution is satisfactory and I appreciate your professional input about it.
Hi Roger
I noticed in photo 2 that you used Mosiac tile in the niche. I assume that it’s the type that has the mesh backing on it. When you installed it on the back of the niche, did you “spot” it the same way you did with the solid tile?
Hi Marty,
Nope, if you’re doing that you either need to build your niche to the exact depth you need it or install the mosaics on thin backer or kerdi, then you can build it out with no problems. If you try to do it without an additional backing all your thinset will squish through the grout lines. That sucks.
Hi Roger,
I’m about to complete tiling a niche. I have the back and the bottom in. Now I have to put in the sides and the top. The niche is 12″ wide and I’m using 6×6 bullnose. That means I’ll have two pieces of tile across the top, rather than just one 12″ long tile. I assume I’ll have to support the middle while the thinset….sets.
How do you suggest I do this? The bottom of the niche is slightly sloped, so I wasn’t sure if just a cut 2×4 would do the trick. I’m looking for the simplest solution possible.
Thanks for all this information! We’ve used it as a guide for the whole tub surround so far!
-Sarah
Hi Sarah,
Yes, you’ll likely need to support the middle. You can do it with a 2×4, but you really don’t need anything that big. Paint mixer sticks work well, so do scraps of drywall. It won’t be supporting any weight, it’s just preventing it from sagging a bit.
Why doesn’t anyone design ceramic tile-set hooks for razors? Is it only men doing the designing … AND without any consideration for the women who shave their legs, pits, arms (and whatever else for some!) in the shower? I am not going to set my razor on some high inconvenient edge where I might catch my fingertips on the blade the next time I reach for it. Screw the temporary suction cup type holders and the wire shelving to hang from a shower head. Bump it and everything goes flying in the shower! (Maybe these rocket-science designer guys like to chase razors and wet bars of soap in the shower.) God forbid if any of them get a clue for a bright idea. However on the off-chance they do (without the dream of chasing big dollars signs about it), they can design ceramic tile-set hooks for draping washcloths over too. Do I need to take another ceramics class at the local pottery store to come up with something adequate? …. And for a lot less than the cost for a pair of Louboutin shoes? Did only those during the Victorian era think of these things?
My first item of discussion (before I decided to pick apart the previous items) was about recessed soap dishes. I hate the designs of pre-formed soap dishes and hate those types that extrude out enough to catch your elbow while washing your hair or dent your head after chasing down the bar of soap that won’t stay put in the poorly designed soap dish. Many of the pre-formed old dishes will not hold soap as it gets smaller and most do not drain well. They always have the making of soap soup hooch in their cradles.
So, I put the question to you – the Almighty Floor Elf Guru (despite the occasional extreme jackassery) …. Have you or anyone you might know come up with an awesome design for a functional recessed soap niche?
I am batting around the idea of using quarter round beads and/or quarter round bead corners strips laid horizontally from the back to the front of the bottom of a soap dish niche in which can drain well without the soap sliding out …. and with waterproofing measures underneath, of course. You have to know of someone who has made a recessed soap niche where the soap stays put and it drains decently without soap soup hooch accumulation.
Pretty is pretty, but a pretty and smart (ass) girl wants functionality and dependability …. especially with a shower and bath remodeling project on her list. Until then, the Louboutins are staying in the closet. Besides, hanging concrete board is a bit awkward in them.
Hey Clarissa,
I’ve done some interesting, and sometimes unusual things with some of my niches in the past. I have use stainless steel rods as a shelf about three inches above the bottom of a niche for a soap dish. I’ve also done the same for the shelf in the middle rather than tile, which can be used both for soap and, if spaced correctly, a hanger for a razor or two. I’ve drilled holes through the middle shelves for razors (1″ wide). If also taken a pencil rail and cut the back of it at a 45 degree angle on the top and installed it on the front of the middle shelf. This leaves a ‘V’ shape on the top of the pencil rail between it and the shelf in which you can hang a razor. A razor can also hang on a single stainless wire when installed an inch away from the corner at a 45.
I like the pencil rail (quarter round) strips along a shelf. I also like the phrase soup hooch.
Would you by chance have a pic of the steel rod design and the pencil rod idea? The newer designs of (Mach) 3 blade razors, both disposable and blade replacement types are being designed quite differently than … let say a Bic razor. They do not “hook” and grab onto an edge like the old designs. They are fatter around the necks too. I like the idea of using steel rods. Would that be the best type of metal to use or should another type be considered?
Can you think of any industry that makes a glazed ceramic plug/divet/dowel about 1/4″ in diameter and 1″ long? It could be a metal conponent that does not degrade with water. Razors could be hung on two inserted into the wall and spaced at least 1″ apart.
I am still pondering what to do for a soap nicho (Spanish reference for shelf in a wall) that keeps the soap bar from slipping out and lets the soap soup houch drain. I use to have a dog who liked to lick the hooch off the wall below a soap dish! Ick! :dog:
Do you know if there are any companies who makes a deeply grooved/corrugated-looking ceramic or porcelain tile? Something like that with a skinny rod across side to side about 1/2″ up from the shelf at the front of a nicho could work. However, grooves for the houch to run down is preferable.
Thanks for the contribution of ideas!
I don’t have any pictures of that one. It was before I started taking an insane amount of photos on all my jobs. If you use rods use stainless steel. I don’t know of any ceramic rods offhand, but I’ve seen marble dowels (or rods). I’m sure you can find some with google. I’ve never seen tile grooved that much. There are a lot of porcelains that have relief texture, one of those may work.
Hi
Can I use Kerdi for a shower curb if I am not using it for the rest of the shower? Thanks
Hi Cheri,
Yes, but your floor liner needs to run up and over the curb behind it. No real way to do that unless you do your floor with the liner, fabricate the curb out of deck mud, then install your kerdi. At that point there’s no reason at all to use the kerdi – your curb is already waterproof.
Hi Roger,
Love the info but I am not finding what I need which may mean I am thinking of doing something that should not be done. I am just finishing tiling a shower with 16 x 24″ french travertine. I am considering the design of my niche with one shelf. I do not want a distinct niche border and I do not want to see the face edges of my niche pieces or the edges of the shelf where they meet the niche sides. Why do I not see any photos on your site in which the wall tile is cut to hide the niche piece edges? I just don’t want to see any grout lines on the face of the wall around the niche. Please advise or send photos if you have them. Gracias.
Hi Laura,
The reason that is normally not done is because the bullnose (rounded) tile is only three inches wide in most cases. You can have it around the outside of the niche and you won’t see that grout line, but it will frame the niche like this: Framed shower niche (the top looks like crap because it isn’t grouted yet). But you can do it, no reason not to. A lot of people just don’t like the framed look.
Hey Roger,
My shower is ready for tile and I pre-planned the niche properly placing the framing. I have a couple questions:
Would pre-cutting the hole for the niche be a good idea before I start tiling to properly waterproof (traditional method, using kerdi for niche)? I understand tiling up to the niche prior to cutting ensures grout lines line up.
If a pre-cut is made, can you tile starting at the niche and work downward and laterally or will gravity win and make it a nightmare to keep from shifting?
I plan to use epoxy grout. I know you need to use an epoxy float. I have read where you also need to use a sponge made for epoxy grout to keep it from getting gummy and sticky. Is that the case or will a standard one work with also using a microfiber cloth?
Your manuals are great reads!
Thanks,
Ed
Hi Ed,
You can pre-cut it provided you measure your tiles (with the grout lines) first to get an exact measurement. It should line up fine.
A regular sponge will work fine. If you’re using spectralock they put a sponge in the bucket for you. You can also use microfiber for your second cleanup – works very well.
Hi Roger,
Again, I can’t thank you enough for all your tips…And by the way I love you sense of humor, it take the bite out of some of my ”not so good planning”…and is cheaper than beer
My question is this: I’ll be running a 3” vertical accent centered on my wall and it will be crossing the niche, again in its center. Now the niche is a ”ready niche” made by ”tile ready” and is a two tier one…larger opening is 12 x 13 3/4 then a 2” wide bridge and then 4” x 13 3/4. I will be putting Schluter Rondec as bull nose on the perimeter of both openings and was wondering what would look best ”I mean more like if a pro did it”. Should I be running the vertical accent through the vertical and horizontal planes or simply the back and front tiles?
Also, since I’m putting chrome Rondec on the perimeters should I consider the niche as a stand alone piece of as ”a flow through” part of the wall? The bottom of the niche lines up with the horizontal grout line but since my tiles are 10×16” and my niche is 12” high should I try to continue the horizontal grout line through the niche or forget it and cut my tiles to fit the niche like a ”box”? I’m thinking the Rondec will break the flow through look anyway?
Last question, do you put tile spacers in the niche or simply make it a tight fit?
Thanks a bunch…no back to my ”labor of love”
Mats
Hey Mat,
Since you’re using the rondec I would put the accent on both planes all the way through the niche. The grout lines in the niche I would eliminate. You still need the gaps at the changes of plane, but you can forgo the spacers.
Roger:
I want to place a 3/8″ tempered glass shelf in the middle of my niche. I plan to support it on the sides by setting it on the top of a piece of bullnose tile and then shaping the tile above it to fit. What is bothering me is the fact that the glass will be resting directly against the Kerdi backer on the sides and back. I don’t want that orange (with splotches of thinset!) to show through. What should I do?
Hey Scott,
You can either run a bead of white silicone around the space where you’re glass is, let it cure, then install the glass and tile. Or you can take an orbital sander to the sides of the glass which will give it a ‘frosted’ look through which you should not be able to see the orange.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the worst sentence structure I’ve spit out in a long while! You’re welcome…
Hi Roger,
Just about to start a master bath overhaul, which really means I’m taking a small bedroom that has no plumbing in it and making it a master bath. Trying to think of everything before getting started. I’m guessing everything is against me and my wife will choose a porcelain tile that does not have associated bullnose tiles. What’s the best thing to do in this scenario expecially when tiling the niches and shower curb, etc. sans bullnose tile. Sorry if this has been asked before.
FYI, I just ‘liked’ you on Facebook. I hope it’s not a binding arrangement
Brian
Hey Brian,
You can have bullnose fabricated, that’s one option. Another is to use some type of tile transition edge like schluter edge trims. Natural stone pencil rails are also an option.
Thx, pencil rails were something I had not considered. Planning on doing a full Schluter Kerdi Shower (may do my own mud deck though), I found D25 Ditraset online – this the right stuff? Didn’t know what D25 meant if anything. The only other thing I think I can get my hands on is Mapei Kerabond from an unmodified perspective locally.
D25 is just the stock number. That is the correct stuff.
Thank you. I’m definitely going with the Schluter shower system. However, I’m also going with a pebble 1’x1′ mat. The pebbles on the backside are “ribbed” (not smooth or round). I’ve read on some other sites where pebbles over kerdi membrane is not good because it’s not a tile? Schluter didn’t seem to have a problem with it. Heard of this? Thanks in advance.
It should be fine as long as you’re not using the pre-formed styrofoam base. Make SURE you get plenty of thinset beneath them, you don’t want the point load of the pebbles placed directly against kerdi – you want it fully supported by thinset.
Ok, I was going to use the foam pan, but sounds like the mud deck is now the way to go. Doubt the wife is going to change her tile/pebble selection. If I do a mud deck then, how high over the subfloor (or mud deck) does the drain pipe need to come up for the shower drain as I’d still be using the Kerdi Drain. I know I need to buy your book, and will do so
Also, my tile supplier is trying like mad to get me to go Wedi system. Any pros cons to that vs. Schluter? I’m not planning on changing my mind, unless the pros out there told me it was significantly better.
Thanks for all the help.
Wedi is a good system. It’s not necessarily better or worse than schluter – it’s just…different. It does the same thing. They do not (as far as I know currently) have a dedicated drain system, so that will be different. I’m not sure what they currently use, I no longer us wedi. I prefer schluter.
The drain pipe needs to be 1 1/4″ below where the top of your mud deck will be.
Hi Roger,
I’m finally getting going with the Kerdi. 2 questions:
1) With the Kerdi, does it really matter where I start? I always feel I should overlap like a roof – kerdi the floor, changes of plane then the walls? Is this ok, given that the schluter instructions seem to be corners/borders then walls then floor. My assumption is the Kerdi is waterproof either way and would work as long as you had full coverage.
2)With the Pebble shower floor, it ‘seems’ like it may look better if I butt the pebbles against the shower wall, vs. running the pebble under the shower wall. Would this be a big no no? I was hoping I would be ok either way, going with kerdi system.
Thanks in advance again!
Brian
1. Makes no difference at all. I prefer to overlap it like roof shingles as well, it just seems natural to me. But I do it the other way as well, either way works fine.
2. That actually works better than trying to cut the wall tile to the pebbles. Doesn’t make a difference waterproof-wise. (Is that a word…?)
I really enjoy all your tips and instructions, especially your witty delivery. I am remodeling my bathroom (several months now) and have worked my way to the shower. I have some Hardibacker cement board siding (plywood size) left over from siding an outbuilding. Can I use this inside the shower walls if I waterproof with Redguard? I hate to let it go to waste if I can use it. Do you think the tiles will adhere to it okay? Also any tips on tiling walls without the tiles sliding down getting out of alignment when installing on point?
Hey Diana,
It’ll work fine if you’re using redgard. If you use a non-sag thinset the tiles will stay where you put them, but it’s fairly spendy – about $45 / bag.
Hi, Roger. I am a homeowner remodeling a 3′ x 3′ shower. Using 9″ x 18″ wall tile laid horizontally, like large subway tile. Trying to decide on best size and design for a wall niche. A 12″ wide by 27″ high niche would line up with grout joints top and bottom and could be positioned directly under the decorative liner I plan, but is 27″ too high for a niche with one shelf? Most niches you build seem to have the shelf closer to the bottom of the niche. With soap dishes down low, do they catch much water from the shower? I’m thinking of using a higher shelf to keep soap drier. Also, I don’t see much on use of glass shelves in niches. I would like to leave a gap between the side bullnose pieces, and slip a glass shelf in that slot. Your thoughts? Thanks.
Hey Dave,
It’s only too high if you think it looks funny. It’s an aesthetic choice, technically it makes no difference at all. Any shelf will get quite a bit of water, but a higher one less so. If you use a glass shelf it HAS to be tempered glass, regular glass can shatter due to temperature differential in a shower. They do look cool, though. I’ve done them, just don’t have any pictures.
Roger, I have framed and “Kerdied” the 12″ x 27″ niche and the size looks good. The designer at the local tile store recommends against using a 2×2 mosaic on the back of the niche, saying the fewer grout joints in a niche, the better. As it is, I will have an extra joint on all four sides because my bullnose is narrower than the niche depth. What say you? Also, how best to attach custom marble thresholds (with resin and mesh backing) to plywood or Ditra over plywood, and to the top of a Kerdi-covered shower curb? Stone fabricator says to use silicone on plywood, wasn’t familiar with Kerdi or Ditra.
Hey Dave,
Amount of grout lines makes absolutely no difference if your niche is waterproofed correctly. Designers normally miss that point for some reason.
Kerdi should not be attached directly to plywood. Marble should not be attached to plywood. If it is resin-backed TECHNICALLY you need to use epoxy setting material. Realistically thinset normally works just fine – bonded to kerdi over drywall or backerboard, attached to the plywood.
Hi Roger,
Fantastic information, Thanks. In my shower/tub combo, I would likle to use 12×12 marble tile for my field. What size should I make the grout lines, 1/16 or 1/8 inch? The tile has a slight bevel cut around the surface edges and I have seen it installed in non-wet applications butted tight. Asthetically, I”m thinking unobtrusive grout lines? Confused with endless choices.
Hi Clay,
You can make them any size you want – as long as you follow these guidelines: Grout line size. Whatever you do – do not butt the tile.
Hey Roger, great website and information! I think I understand everything for the basic niche, however the inclusion of a shelf is not as clear. I want to frame out 2 ’13 X 13 shelves,’ so can I just make it 26 1/2 long (assuming 1/2 inch for back to back bullnose as you suggest to make the shelf–I need to measure their height). After framing it simply place the shelf in or do I need to do them separate.
Hope I have explained it adequately? I’m anxious to dig in, but have been reading and reflecting.
Thanks!
Scott
Hey Scott,
Just one large 26 1/2″ long niche and as you are installing the tile put in the bottom piece, back pieces, then the two bottom side pieces, place your shelf in there, then the top two sided pieces and the top. The shelf is locked in between the two side pieces on the left and right.
Clear as mud, right?
I have read all 4 posts re: how to build a niche for your shower & I am very glad to have found your site!! Thanks for all of the details. Now that I understand the logistics of building the niche, I have to make a decision about tile size (for the niche and the tub/shower & bathroom walls.) The bathroom is small (~ 9’x5′.6″ not including the tub area – the tub is just ~2’8″ x 5’1″.) We are tiling the tub area from the top of the tub up to the 6’6″ point but on the other walls we are going to tile up to the 4′ height (Simply replacing the old tile.)
So, all of the tile people I ask say to go with the 12×12 tiles for the floor and walls, but my dad says that tiles that big will make the room look smaller. I just want the room to look nice/normal! I don’t want to walk in and think “Something’s off here but I can’t quite place it” or worse…. Do you have any tile size advice for this situation? The tile I’m leaning toward comes in 12×12 & 6×6.
Hi Amy,
I’m glad you found my site too!
12×12 tiles will not make the room look smaller. I know it’s counter-intuitive, but it really doesn’t. If you tile the shower all the way to the ceiling it also makes the room look larger. The money you save on bullnose for the top of the shower buys more than enough field tile to go the extra 15″ or so. The 12×12’s will look just fine.
Do you have more detail on STEAM SHOWERS on the floorelf site? I read info on your professional site & was looking for more. Thx
Hi Brantley,
I don’t yet have any articles here – it’s on the list. (It’s a long list…)
If you go to Laticrete’s technical design manual page they have a manual on steam rooms and showers at the bottom which you can download. It has very detailed info.
Hi Roger, should all changes of plane (i.e. inside corners) of the niche be caulked instead of grouted? Or is this not the case?
thanks
Hey Dave,
Technically all changes of plane, including outside changes, should be caulked. I silicone all the inside changes of plane and grout the outside where the tiles meet.
Hi Roger,
I built a niche very similar to your example that has a shelf about a third of the way up. (The shelf is lined up with the grout line of course!) The piece of bullnose tile at the inside top of the niche has a larger gap above it than the normal grout lines. (Similar to your picture.) Should I fill that in with grout or caulk? Is grout a problem if the joint is over a certain width?
Hey Dan,
Yes, the outside changes of plane can be grouted. TECHNICALLY it is a change of plane and should be caulked. That said – I’ve never caulked on. Ever. Sanded grout is not a problem unless your grout line is over 3/4″ or so – even then it can be used without problems if mixed properly. Unsanded grout, on the other hand, should never be used on anything over 1/8″ – it’ll shrink.
Okay, I just about done with the headache that has been this niche. On the advise of another I use the mosaic tile for the back wall and natural stone (travertine) for bottom, sides and top. The stone has nice polished top but the sides and bottom are plain. I was told I would need a stone enhancer to bring the color out. The problem is I’m not sure which one to use? Lowes has Dupont stone enhancer, High gloss/semi gloss sealer and finish. HD has Stone enhancer from Tilelab, Stone-Specific stone enhancer and sealer and then there is Miracle Sealants 511 seal & enhance 1-Step natural stone sealer and color enhancer. Westlake has Black Diamond Stoneworks Wet Look Stone Sealer.
Hey Mori,
I would use the Miracle Sealant’s seal & enhance or the Black Diamond Stoneworks.
I went HD to get the Miracle sealant & enhancer. I was told that they were no longer stocking it in store. I can still get it online though. They are now carrying some brand called Aqua mix enrich n’ seal. I was also told that the Black Diamond Stoneworks Wet Look Stone Sealer would not enhance the stone. So should I go with the Aqua mix?
Hey Mori,
Any of them will work, and yes, the stoneworks will enhance the stone as well. That’s BS.
The aqua mix is pretty good stuff, if it’s readily available go ahead and use it. The 511 is a better product in my opinion (penetrates deeper into the stone), but that’ll work just fine.
Okay I went with the aqua mix. I wish this came in a smaller size then 24 oz because I have a lot left over. I know you’ve been probably asked this many times before but I’m not sure if I grout or caulk between the 4 pieces of stone that make up my niche. I know I caulk the inside corners. I upload a picture so you can see what I’m talking about.
Hey Mori,
Grout everything except the inside changes of plane. Grout between those tile, it’ll be fine.
Um…that’s NOT the way I would have done it. BUT I will now, thanks for taking the time to write this up. Its saved in my bookmarks for future reference.
(bet I had you going, huh?)
I shot you an email last night thanking you for writing this site, and now that you’ve had me thinking of tiles all day, I have a question.
I want to make a complex niche with my mosaic tiles, I want the top to have a 3 dimensional pixelated effect to it, picture legos. I’m doing the high-tech look everywhere else, so I think it’ll look awesome. I’m going 3 inches deep, I want to have 3 levels of different shapes, so in the end I’ll have a pixelated looking arch along the top and from the back forward.
My plan is to take a sheet of plywood, get some milled 1.25×1.25 wood and cut it into cubes. Then off that sheet of plywoood, build up one layer at a time, gluing the pieces together. Now cool, I figured out how to make the shape, this would be my tile backer. Problem is – wood isn’t waterproof, I can’t just put tiles on that and be done with it. It’d be hard getting Kerdi to fit in all those groves, and it’d be even harder to put cement board bits in there. I was thinking I could just be really, really, really generous with liquid membrane, then tile over that and overlap the Kerdi from the shower over the niche. Would that be risky?
Second question, I want the shelf to be exactly one tile all the way across. That’s an inch tall, kind of tall, but I think it’ll look better than any alternative I could come up with. The tiles are quarter inch thick, so with the thinset and liner in there, I’d have about 3/8ths of space for the structural support of that shelf. Once again, I could use some wood and liquid membrane it?.. or any other suggestions?
Hey Kavi,
It will work, I simply don’t know how good of an idea it would be. You aren’t supposed to install redgard over plywood in a wet area such as a shower. Wood has excess movement, whether or not it’s covered with redgard. So I honestly don’t know how stable that would be long-term. The wood will be waterproof, BUT the expansion and contraction inherent in wood may cause the tile to become de-bonded over time.
Don’t get me wrong – your design sounds very cool. But I would probably opt to find a proper substrate with which to cover with the redgard like cement backerboard. Maybe take a sheet of the backer and attach to it cubes of backerboard to it rather than the milled wood. Cut squares of backer into 1 1/4″ squares and build them up layer by layer by gluing them together with liquid nails or epoxy. Once you get the shape you want coat the entire thing with redgard and then tile it.
It would be best to install the kerdi first, then coat the niche with redgard over onto the kerdi rather than having the kerdi overlap the redgard. I would build the shelf out of backerboard covered with redgard as well. As much as you possibly can use a substrate which water will not affect and does not have inherent structural expansion and contraction like wood does.
Hey Roger,
The bullnose that matches the tile I’m using in my shower is only 2 x 6. I want to use it on the inside of my niche, but then I’d have to cut 1″ strips to fill out behind the bullnose. The back of my niche will be class mosaic. Is it okay to do the sides with this as well and leave the front edge uncovered, or will this look like a complete DIY project. Any suggestions would be welcomed.
Sorry, I meant glass mosaic. Fingers are working faster than my brain this morning.
Hey Gary,
As long as the sides of your glass tile are such that it won’t look like crap when exposed on the sides of the niche it will be fine. Most times using glass with an exposed edge is fine.
Roger,
If I cut the back tile to provide more support for the shelf, won’t that shorten the usable shelf space and leave it sitting back further than the field tile?
Thanks,
Travis
Hi Travis,
I remember you – I don’t remember your project. So I have no idea what the hell you’re talking about here.
Can you please post this question again under one of your questions relevant to the shelf, or under a previous answer I have given you about the shelf in question?
I have over 7,500 comments on this site, which I’ve answered. HOWEVER! I have trouble remembering the 15 projects I have lined up for ME in the next three months, it’s nearly impossible to remember every specific project I’m asked about here. Nothing personal.
I receive all the questions in the back one right after another, unless it’s posted beneath a previous question or answer with reference I don’t know which shower you’re working on. My readers have about 40 different showers in progress right now. I remember a niche and bullnose flush with the field tile in some manner (I think) but if you read the question with absolutely no reference you can see that sitting here all by itself hanging out in the wind would cause some confusion.
Thanks.
Hi Roger, I am installing tumbled travertine (2×2) in a kitchen backsplash. I am finding there is much debate about enhancers and sealers. I would like to enhance the dull tile so the color looks more vibrant (as it does when wet with water), but prefer a matt finish rather than a glossy finish. Some say to use an enhancer sealer before grouting, and then apply a second application after grouting, while others say to just enhance and seal twice after grouting. There are sealers and there are enhancers, and then there are enhancer sealers….I’m confused…What do you suggest ?
Hi Joe,
All enhancers are sealers, but all sealers are not enhancers. Most enhancing sealers are topical in nature – which just means that the cured product leaves a protective coat on top of the tile whereas an impregnating sealer seals the pores in the stone itself and does not change the look of the face of the tile.
Once you use an enhancing sealer it will do no good to apply a second coat – you’ll be sealing the protective layer which essentially ends up dulling the stone. You can, however, apply an enhancing sealer after an impregnating sealer – but it won’t do much. The sealer should NEVER be relied upon to get the look of the stone where you want it. If you want a matte finish on your stone you should install a stone with a matte finish.
If you do use a topical (enhancing) sealer keep in mind that since it is essentially a layer on top of the tile it will begin to show wear in abrasion paths. Traffic patterns will develop over time. To refinish a stone with a topical finish the entire floor must be stripped. (Not an issue with your particular installation – just put it there for others.)