One of the most asked questions by do-it-yourselfer’s is whether they should use caulk or grout in the corners. Industry standards state that a flexible material be used at all changes of plane. But! – if you ask a hundred different professionals you will more than likely receive fifty of each answer. While there are pros and cons of each, I am in the camp that uses caulk. That being the case, I will discuss using grout first. I’m backwards like that.
Using Grout at Changes of Plane
While the phrase “changes of plane” may sound a bit uppity or technical – it’s not. It simply describes the corner or edge of any surface that changes direction such as a corner, a wall to a floor, or a wall to the tub edge. Many professionals simply grout that corner as they do any other space between the tiles. There are a couple of things that must be taken into consideration before choosing this method.
- Your walls and the framing of your shower must be absolutely rock solid. I do mean absolutely. Grout is a cement-based product and as such is not meant to flex. If your wall moves your grout will eventually crack – it’s that simple.
- The space between the tiles at the change of plane must be large enough (for sanded grout) or small enough (for non-sanded grout) to be able to support the grout. That simply means that if you are using sanded grout you cannot butt the tiles against each other at the corner and expect to be able to force grout into it. It will not stay if the grout has no grout line to hold onto – if it is simply attempting to grab onto the face of the tiles at a 90 degree angle. There must be a grout line at the changes of plane.
- You must decide you are going to use grout at the changes of plane before you install the tile. You can then make sure to leave a line for the grout as well as adding additional support for any spots that may move even the tiniest bit (which it should not do anyway).
If you have taken the above points into consideration and still decide to use grout in the corners – go ahead. The big advantages of using grout here is that it will match all the grout lines and it will never have to be replaced. So although extra care must be taken to properly use grout at your plane changes, the advantages for some people are worth the extra time.
Using Caulk at Changes of Plane
There are several advantages to using caulk in corners and any other area where there may be a plane change or where tile meets another material such as your bathtub or sink.
- Unlike grout you are able to use caulk in a corner where tiles are butted against each other. It will stick to the face of the tile rather than needing a space between the tiles to grab.
- Caulk is flexible. If there is any movement the caulk is flexible enough to move with it and remain in place. It will not crack out or fall off.
- Caulk is waterproof – grout is not. Water will collect in corners such as where your tile meets the tub more than it will on the face of the tile.
- If your caulk does crack out or need to be replaced it is easily done.
The only two disadvantages to using caulk instead of grout are that you need to periodically remove and replace the caulk and, depending on your choice of grout, you may not be able to find a caulk that matches exactly. The first reason I consider to simply be regular maintenance and the latter is less of a problem since most major grout manufacturers sell matching caulk.
When to Use Grout
The only time I will use grout for a plane change is when I am using epoxy grout. Epoxy grout is bulletproof! OK, maybe it’s not bulletproof but you can hit it with a hammer a couple of times before it chips. (Don’t do that.) If you are using epoxy go ahead and grout the corners and changes of plane as well. Although it is not flexible it will grab the tile well enough to prevent it from splitting or cracking out. Precautions must still be taken but the Epoxy is strong enough to withstand normal structural movement.
How to Decide
Given the above parameters I believe caulk to always be the best choice. What you must understand about tile installation is no matter where you are installing the tile, it is always a structure that moves, no matter how minutely. Concrete moves, (the ground beneath it) that’s why it has expansion joints – to control where the movement goes. Most shower installations are over a wood structure of some sort. Whether you have drywall, backerboard, or a membrane, if you go far enough behind the tile, you’ll find wood. Wood moves, it’s just a fact of life. Humidity, weather, even the structure’s foundation all affect how much it moves. By taking proper precautions you can minimize the movement, but it’s still gonna move. Taking structural movement into consideration caulk is, for me, the logical choice.
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Hi Roger,
I am planning to use a sanded caulk for the corners and transitions where the tub meets the backerboard.
Is there any issues with using a sanded caulk vs. a non sanded caulk? (it is a matching color to my grout color).
Roger,
Not sure if I gave enough info, but to clarify, I am referring to after the tile is set.
Thanks
Hey Dawn Hope,
You have it all in the right order. Anytime you do two different shades of grout, especially white with a darker, always do the darker first. The white can be cleaned off the darker but the darker will stain the white.
Hi Roger! First, thanks for sharing your experience and tips in an insightful, meaningful, easy to understand explanation. Second, I’m building my outdoor bbq/kitchen and am working on the v-cap tile for the top. The product I purchased doesn’t come with pre-cut v-cap corners so I am cutting pieces at 45 degree angles. I have a couple of outside and a couple of inside corners. Are there any tricks to getting these pieces lined up to look good. I can’t seem to get them aligned to the point they look proper. Or is this where the years of experience come into play? I was under the impression you don’t grout right on the tip of the corner, is that correct or would you want to put a grout line here? Unfortunately the v-cap was not cast from the same color ceramic the tiles were and the manufacturer colored the v-cap to match so if the v-cap isn’t cut perfectly you see a little whitish ceramic along the edge of the cut. Any tips would be most appreciated. Thanks, again.
Hey Larry,
The details aren’t in getting it lined up. As long as your corner is square the detail is in the cutting. If yo have 90 degree angles and get the miter cut correctly it will lay together perfectly. Set the piece upright as it will sit on the bbq and push it through the blade on the saw. It takes practice. I normally leave about a 1/32″ space between the edges – just a sliver – and get grout in there. If it’s just a plain white ceramic you may want to check dal tile to see if they have one that matches. If you got them from home depot they likely are dal tile – call them and you should be able to get matching corners directly from them for it.
Hi Roger—
We tiled the kitchen floor. Interceramic wood look tile (walnut/dark brown), Laticrete midnight black grout with 1/16″ spacers. Still need to calk the edges.
We bought DAP premium indoor/outdoor sealant in black. It also says Alex Ultra 230. Will this work? If not, will you please recommend a specific calk we should use?
Thanks!
Pauline
p.s. The floors turned out awesome! No lipage issues that I can see! Thank you for all your guidance!
Ooops….caulk….not calk.
Hi Pauline,
The Ultra 230 is good stuff. It’ll work fine.
I’m tiling the walls of an alcove bath and adding a shower. Following the traditional waterproofing method I’m using tarpaper and then fastening the backerboard (in my case 1/2″ Hardie). I think you recommend spacing the hardie backer boards about 1/8 inch apart and filling in the gaps with thinset and tape. Do I still do this on the walls? What do I do in the corner (same thing or since it’s a change in plane, do I just use caulk for the backerboard? Please advise. Thanks in advance.
Sorry..didn’t look hard enough first. Looks like it’s documented here: http://floorelf.com/installing-cement-backerboard-for-tile-in-a-shower
Inside corners can be left without thinset or the inside corners can be filled with silicone.
Oh, yup.
Sorry, my comments in the back are answer in the order in which they’re received. Like the phone company – except funnier.
Hey Charlie,
Yes, 1/8″ gap and tape and mud (thinset) on the seams. In the corners leave a 1/8″ gap and fill it with silicone to prevent thinset from getting in there as you tile.
Roger-
Thanks for the Red Guard bleed thru answer. As for the question I was asking about tiling around a wall from the tub area to the toilet area and how to cut the tiles around that stub wall — we determined to scrap tiling around that wall. This project is already a year long and still going. New question! In Jane’s pictures it says tub caulked. Are we supposed to caulk all the corners and where the Red Guarded Hardi backer board meet the tub BEFORE we put the tiles up?
Thanks,
Susan
Hey Susan,
Yes, you need to create a complete waterproof plane from the wall which is redgarded to the tub or shower basin. Use silicone for that. Without it any water running down the wall can just run into that gap negating your waterproofing efforts. Make sure your entire substrate is waterproofed without any gaps or spaces all the way down into the tub or shower base.
I always piss in the shower and it stains the grout so I decided to piss on every grout line to make it match but I can’t get enough force in my stream to hit the lines up top. What is a good product for removing piss stains from grout, also will this product remove semen stains?
It doesn’t surprise me that you cannot reach the upper grout lines in your shower with your urine stream. Perhaps you should check into some extendz or other male enhancement techniques, maybe work on your aim a bit. Sinking paper sailboats at 50 paces perhaps? Give that a shot.
Also, any product I recommend for you to remove urine stains from your grout will likely not be suitable for use as a toothpaste. I’m afraid you’re stuck with the semen stains. Perhaps your dentist has something to improve your smile. Sorry.
Thank you for your insightful comments – please enjoy your complimentary membership to the 73 homosexual and beastiality porn websites you have recently been signed up for. You’re welcome, glad I could help.
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