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Caulk or Grout in Corners?

by Roger

One of the most asked questions by do-it-yourselfer’s is whether they should use caulk or grout in the corners. Industry standards state that a flexible material be used at all changes of plane. But! – if you ask a hundred different professionals you will more than likely receive fifty of each answer.  While there are pros and cons of each, I am in the camp that uses caulk. That being the case, I will discuss using grout first. I’m backwards like that.

Using Grout at Changes of Plane

While the phrase “changes of plane” may sound a bit uppity or technical – it’s not. It simply describes the corner or edge of any surface that changes direction such as a corner, a wall to a floor, or a wall to the tub edge. Many professionals simply grout that corner as they do any other space between the tiles. There are a couple of things that must be taken into consideration before choosing this method.

  1. Your walls and the framing of your shower must be absolutely rock solid. I do mean absolutely. Grout is a cement-based product and as such is not meant to flex. If your wall moves your grout will eventually crack – it’s that simple.
  2. The space between the tiles at the change of plane must be large enough (for sanded grout) or small enough (for non-sanded grout) to be able to support the grout. That simply means that if you are using sanded grout you cannot butt the tiles against each other at the corner and expect to be able to force grout into it. It will not stay if the grout has no grout line to hold onto – if it is simply attempting to grab onto the face of the tiles at a 90 degree angle. There must be a grout line at the changes of plane.
  3. You must decide you are going to use grout at the changes of plane before you install the tile. You can then make sure to leave a line for the grout as well as adding additional support for any spots that may move even the tiniest bit (which it should not do anyway).

If you have taken the above points into consideration and still decide to use grout in the corners – go ahead. The big advantages of using grout here is that it will match all the grout lines and it will never have to be replaced. So although extra care must be taken to properly use grout at your plane changes, the advantages for some people are worth the extra time.

Using Caulk at Changes of Plane

There are several advantages to using caulk in corners and any other area where there may be a plane change or where tile meets another material such as your bathtub or sink.

  1. Unlike grout you are able to use caulk in a corner where tiles are butted against each other. It will stick to the face of the tile rather than needing a space between the tiles to grab.
  2. Caulk is flexible. If there is any movement the caulk is flexible enough to move with it and remain in place. It will not crack out or fall off.
  3. Caulk is waterproof – grout is not. Water will collect in corners such as where your tile meets the tub more than it will on the face of the tile.
  4. If your caulk does crack out or need to be replaced it is easily done.

The only two disadvantages to using caulk instead of grout are that you need to periodically remove and replace the caulk and, depending on your choice of grout, you may not be able to find a caulk that matches exactly. The first reason I consider to simply be regular maintenance and the latter is less of a problem since most major grout manufacturers sell matching caulk.

When to Use Grout

The only time I will use grout for a plane change is when I am using epoxy grout. Epoxy grout is bulletproof! OK, maybe it’s not bulletproof but you can hit it with a hammer a couple of times before it chips. (Don’t do that.) If you are using epoxy go ahead and grout the corners and changes of plane as well. Although it is not flexible it will grab the tile well enough to prevent it from splitting or cracking out. Precautions must still be taken but the Epoxy is strong enough to withstand normal structural movement.

How to Decide

Given the above parameters I believe caulk to always be the best choice. What you must understand about tile installation is no matter where you are installing the tile, it is always a structure that moves, no matter how minutely. Concrete moves, (the ground beneath it) that’s why it has expansion joints – to control where the movement goes. Most shower installations are over a wood structure of some sort. Whether you have drywall, backerboard, or a membrane, if you go far enough behind the tile, you’ll find wood. Wood moves, it’s just a fact of life. Humidity, weather, even the structure’s foundation all affect how much it moves. By taking proper precautions you can minimize the movement, but it’s still gonna move. Taking structural movement into consideration caulk is, for me, the logical choice.

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{ 13 comments… read them below or add one }

Jeremy July 27, 2010 at 9:42 am

Do you caulk the top edge of the shower curb… using a tile or marble top on the curb. (I’ve heard you should never use tile on the top btw, not sure if that’s true or why) Appreciate your response.

Reply

Roger July 28, 2010 at 6:22 pm

Hi Jeremy,

No, I do not caulk the top edge of the curb except at the ends where it turns up at the wall. Other than that it gets grout. I often use tile on the top of curbs – I’ve honestly never heard that from anyone so I don’t know where someone got that idea. It may be a conspiracy. :suspect: If you want to use tile on the top go ahead.

Reply

Rustain April 16, 2010 at 5:20 pm

Hello,
Yep I have another question. How long does the grout have to cure before I can caulk my corners? I to wait 72 hours before sealing, but wasn’t sure if the same was true for caulking?
Thanks and thanks again for taking time to put together such a great website,
Rustain

Reply

Roger April 16, 2010 at 6:28 pm

Hey Rustain,

You can caulk the next day. The grout will be set up enough to run caulk wherever you need. I actually caulk the same day but you need to be careful with the grout lines if you decide to do that.

Reply

Harry March 25, 2010 at 11:38 am

Wow! Someone who actually has CORRECT information and the patience to explain it completely. You should be proud of yourself for providing accurate assistance. Please keep up the great work.
Harry

Reply

Roger March 25, 2010 at 5:51 pm

Hey thanks Harry!

Nice to know there are people that recognize it. Now if we could find some way to get rid of all the inaccurate information people spew out everything would be peachy. :D

Reply

Kevin Krol March 13, 2010 at 10:16 am

Roger-

I’m glad I stumbled onto your blog. I’ve been dealing with a grout-replacement issue for several months, and I had gotten all materials and was ready to go when I thought I’d better do a little more research.

Basically we had a classic “drain fly” issue, but the larvae were breeding behind a hairline opening where grout at the base of our shower had pulled away from the vertical wall tile surface. Needless to say that when i chiseled the grout out of the floor/wall lines, there was a lot of moisture that had built up behind it (my guess is on and off for a couple of months). There was also corner grout elsewhere in the shower that was failing. I suspected it was: A) a movement issue, B) the installer may have just used sanded everywhere including the smaller joints, or C) the original grout mixture didn’t have a proper water-to-mix ratio.

Even though I have grout to use for this application, I am leaning toward using a sanded or non-sanded caulk now (just a Polyblend product from Home Depot), but I don’t think I am going to get an exact match to the existing grout. Is there anything I can do to either lighten or darken the caulk either while I am caulking or after?

Thanks,
Kevin

Reply

Roger March 13, 2010 at 11:49 am

Hey Kevin,

The only thing that I can think of is maybe after caulking your corners let it cure (usually only three or four hours) then try going over the top of it with clear silicone. This won’t effect, negatively nor positively, the caulk itself but the color of the caulk through silicone may change. Think about grout with silicone over the top of it. It doesn’t necessarily effect the grout but the light going through the silicone changes the way it looks.

I honestly don’t know if that will work or not. Get a board or something and place a bead of your caulk on it, let it cure, then place silicone over it to see how it looks.

The only other easy way I can think of would be to try and find a matching caulk or silicone (I know, I’m a ridiculously obvious bastard sometimes) but if HD doesn’t carry what you need you can check out Laticrete’s ‘Latisil’ which is a silicone color-matched sealant. It comes in a large variety of colors and you should be able to find a cross-reference chart for it somewhere to match your particular grout. (You can always match your grout color with their grout color and get the corresponding Latisil)

If you want the hard way – you know, the way I do everything – you can actually take clear silicone, mix your unsanded grout with it, place it either back into the tube or in a ziploc, cut off the corner, and caulk it with that. The match is nearly identical (just a hair darker from the silicone) and it won’t crack out of your corners because it is flexible silicone. The one BIG caveat with this – before you’ve had practice doing this you will make one hell of a mess, have a firehose standing by. But this method gets the results I need when other options are unavailable.

Hope that helps.

Reply

Mike August 27, 2009 at 10:35 am

Roger, I have grouted the floor (3/8″ joints) with Custom’s Polyblend sanded grout. I let it cure well over 72 hours before applying 1 treatment of Custom’s Tile Lab penetrating sealer (the pricy one at the HD). After giving that a few days to set I noticed when wet, the grout discolors after about 30 seconds. It does bead up but eventually I can see absorbtion. I am aware of the need to let water in and out of the grout so it may dry out, but I am looking to follow the same procedure for my shower joints (wall and floor, 1/8″ joints) and am a bit concerned. My prior shower was tiled with the classic 4″x4″ white tile with 1/16″ grout lines and I never noticed them absorbing water. Additionally, I have moved away from a acrylic shower pan to a tiles floor so there will be water hitting horizontal joints for the duration of a shower. Have I not applied an appropriate sealer? Should I apply additional coats of the sealer? Is this much ado about nothing.
Thanks
Mike

Reply

Roger August 27, 2009 at 5:04 pm

Hi Mike,

The penetrating sealer does just that – penetrates. You have a decent sealer but you will need to add another coat to your grout. The first coat will essentially soak completely into your grout, which is good, and “seals” the pores in the grout to an extent.

Apply another coat and let it dry. Check to see if water beads up on the surface of your grout. If it does you’re good to go. If it doesn’t simply add another coat. Sometimes it may take as many as three or four coats. Just keep applying coats until the water beads up.

Please note that any type of sealer will not make your grout waterproof, simply water resistant. The purpose of sealer is to help prevent stains for the most part. When you do your shower floor you may notice that the grout will get darker during and after a shower, it should dry out relatively quickly though. This is normal and does not lead to any type of problem (provided your shower is constructed properly).

Hope that helps.

Reply

Mike July 1, 2009 at 7:05 am

Thanks for sharing your expertise. I have seen much on the debate of grout v. caulk, what the Tile Council recommends etc. It was the more mundane issue of what should be done first that slowed me down.
Thanks again.
Mike

Reply

Mike June 29, 2009 at 6:00 am

I have installed a 2″x2″ mosaic tile shower floor and am getting ready to do the walls. I have read much about the recommendastion to caulk the change of planes. On the floor, should I caulk the perimeter prior to grouting or after? How do you ensure the area were grout touches caulk is tight?
Thanks

Reply

Roger June 29, 2009 at 6:02 pm

Hey Mike,
As I’ve stated the caulk at the change of planes is the industry guideline. And I don’t always do it that way. :D
When I do caulk it I actually find it easier to caulk before grouting. If you do it that way you do not have to dig out any grout that made it’s way in there while you were grouting. To ensure the grout is filling the grout lines against the caulk just make sure you pack it into the space really well as you grout. As long as it’s full you should be fine.

Reply

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