Making sheets of mosaics square

by Roger

If you want a little something unusual in your shower installation you can always put glass mosaics in the back of your niche. It looks cool. The problem, however, is that when you buy a sheet of mosaic tile it may be one square foot of tile, but it has all those funny mismatched edges that aren’t straight. Every row of glass is offset.

This is done in order to not have grout lines in the installation line up (it’s supposed to look random) and to allow each sheet to interlock with the one next to it. In other words the left side of the sheet interlocks with the right side of the one next to it.

But if you only need one or two square sheets, like for the back of a niche, it won’t really fit in there in the stock sheet form. A reader asked me a while back if she had to order three or four of those sheets to do her one foot by two foot niche. Like the one on the right there.

(You can click on any of the photos for a larger version.)

Because the sheet is actually more than one foot wide (each row is offset) but there is no way you can cut one or both sides off and end up with a 12″ wide mosaic she thought she would need to order more to fill in the missing pieces. You actually only need two pieces, it fills itself in.

All you have to do is cut them in half.

I finally had a shower with a 1′ x 2′ niche with glass mosaic so I can show pictures. It’s obvious from the rambling above that words simply won’t do it. So here is what the mosaics look like in a full sheet.

You’ll notice that the actual individual rows are 12″ wide (just a bit under, like nearly every tile).

So after you cut it in half you’ll have these:

Then all you need to do is switch them and the one on the right will lock right into the one on the left. Just like the picture below on the left. You’ll notice that it is now square with straight sides and it will fit right into your niche, just like the one below on the right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is another example of things I don’t think about. I always just assume that everyone knew that mosaics did this because, well, because I’m a tile guy. Sometimes I don’t know what you guys have problems with so YOU HAVE TO LET ME KNOW! :D If you do I may just write a post to explain it.

You can see the order in which I installed the back of the niche (and the shelves) below. You can click on any of the photos for a larger version. If you have any projects or aspects of tile installation that are a bit confusing or you’re unsure of just leave a comment in any of the sections on my site. I can normally help, I just need to know what to help with.

This niche was done with schluter metal trim, that’s the aluminum stuff you see in the pictures.

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Darla

Hello Roger,
I’ve been reading posts on your website for the last few weeks. Thank you for all the great information. Unfortunately, I have a bit of a contractor mess on my hands. My beautiful vision of 12 X 24 inch Italian Carrara Marble installed vertically with a stripe of 2 lavender glass 1 x 3 inch mosaic tiles for my remodeled shower has turned into a nightmare. Granted the marble is heavy, and that may have contributed to the uneven grout lines, but shouldn’t there be a way to ensure they are straight? The glass mosaic is uneven as well. I know my tile guy struggled with cutting both, cracking and chipping. He did install it on 1/4 inch cement back board. I fear I may have to hire someone else to tear it all out and start over :( Do you have any suggestions for me at this point? Or can you recommend one of your peers in the south Denver area?
Thank you so much!!

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Roger

Hi Darla,

He put 12×24 Carrara over 1/4″ backer on a wall??? That right there is a deal breaker. Sorry, it does need to be removed. I’ll get you some recommendations, give me a bit.

Oh, and yes, if you know what you’re doing the grout lines will be straight. I’ve set 2 foot by 4 foot tile on a wall with straight grout lines, those were heavier. :D

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hotrodroxie

HI! Hopefully you still monitor this thread :)
I have demo’d my tiny bathroom and am opting to put 5/8 mixed stone/glass mosaic over the exposed block chimney. This will also be behind the vanity up to the ceiling on both. HOW do I do my outside corner of the chimney? :/ I rather not run vertical in this tiny space, hopefully that’s not where I’m headed due due lack of know how lol. THANX A TON! :rockon:

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Roger

HI Roxie,

If I understand you correctly you need to miter the mosaic, or interlock them in alternating rows, around the corner. If what I typed makes no sense then you’ll need to be a bit more specific about what you’re asking. :D

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Tammy

Hi Roger, I would like to use the sheets of off-set mesh backed mosaic tile as my accent strip around my shower wall. The problem is I only want the accent strip to be half the height of one sheet. One sheet would then cover approx. 2 linear ft. if there is a way to cut it and match it up. I see the way you cut the mesh square to insert it into a niche. Is there a way to cut it so that you can carry the pattern all the way around the 3 walled shower without having the squared edges?

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Roger

Hi Tammy,

Yes, you can cut the sheets in half. If they don’t line up keep the bottom and top halves seperate, which will match up, and use one for the back wall and the other for the two side walls.

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Steve

My tile sales lady gave me a bid and it included a bronzed trim transition that is supposed to be for my niche, can u give me a pic or and idea of where it should reside. I am assuming where niche meets wall tile but would I put it on niche and wal tile flush or on wall and niche tile flush with wall. Or is she completely looney

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Roger

Hi Steve,

Yes, she probably is completely loony. But maybe not about this. :D Mine look like this: https://www.facebook.com/FloorElf/photos/pcb.923847241001209/923847184334548/?type=1

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Greg

Hi Roger,
I am putting in glass mosaics in a waterfall pattern (vertically) under the fixtures. The mosaics are pretty much the same thickness as the porcelain field tiles, so I don’t need to bring them to flush using ditra as you have shown. My question is, having not bonded the mosaics to something prior to cutting on the wetsaw, how do you keep the individual mosaic pieces from squirreling around while cutting? I am imagining using a piece of thick rubber to hold them down during the cut, but thought you might have a better idea.
Thanks,
Greg in Fort Collins

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Roger

Hi Greg,

The easiest way is to take blue painter’s tape and place it across your glass and mark your cut on that. It’s easier to see the cut and the tape will hold the glass in place as you cut it.

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Steve

1-1/2″ square mosaics on a shower floor.

Should I stagger the sheets to avoid having 4 corners meet? Stagger in both axes so I avoid even having 2 corners meet?

What do you do, if anything, about individual pieces within the mosaic that are either placed slightly wrong or sized slightly wrong so that the spacing (grout line) to the neighboring pieces is smaller than the rest…Take that piece out and set it by hand? Cut it individually to size? Try to make the errant tile be a “waste” piece?

Obrigado!

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Roger

Hey Steve,

Yes, stagger so you don’t have four corners meet. You can have two corners meet, you’ll need to. You just don’t want consistent spaces between every row of sheets or you’ll see the individual sheets in the finished layout. Any errant pieces need to be removed before the sheet is set and placed by hand in the proper position.

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Marty

Hi Roger. Thanks for the info. When cutting the sheet of tile, do you have to be careful not to get the blade tangled in the mesh backing? (the guy at home depot told me this) Also, I’m tiling a tub surround using kerdi membrane. I had to order it off the internet because no one around me sells this stuff. I neglected to buy any kerd-fix and now time is too short to order any. Is urethane calking an acceptable substitute for kerdi-fix to seal around the tub flange and the cement board?

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Roger

Hey marty,

No, the blade cuts through the mesh. I have no idea how in the hell he would have gotten it tangled in the mesh, that’s ridiculous.
You can use sika-flex, it’s in the concrete section of home depot.

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Marty

Thanks again. One more dumb question. When using the kerdi membrane, do you still have to tape the joints between cement boards and fill screw holes? If so, do you use thinset or sealant?

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Roger

Nope, the kerdi does all that in one shot.

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momelisse

Yes, I sure would like to have the tile and wall flush!

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Natasha

Hey Roger! I know that I read on here somewhere that waterproofing a shower wall is done differently when it’s against an exterior wall, but I can’t find that post again to save my life! I’m re-doing a tiled shower that was put in by the previous owners and is now crumbling. It’s in the basement, on the cement slab, and against an exterior wall. What should I be doing differently for this wall? Also, the curb is built with wood on the cement. From what I’ve read, this is a no-no, but I’m not sure how to adhere a brick one to the slab? Any and all advice on these would be most helpful!

Thanks!

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Roger

Hi Natasha,

Not usually any difference at all. About the only thing is that if you are using a topical method the kraft paper on the insulation needs to be slit so as not to create a double barrier. Bond bricks to the concrete with thinset.

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Jeff

Roger,

I noticed in one of the postings u talk about cutting glass mosaic. Have you ever used glass tile as bullnose? I was thinking about using it and cutting one edge at 22.5 degree with wet saw. Then wet sanding the glass to smooth the cut for safety purposes. Side note: I’m only going to use it for my two mosaic insert strips similar to the shower stall picture at the beginning of this post.

Thanks – Jeff

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Roger

Hi Jeff,

Yes I have. It works well.

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Tom

Roger,
Great entry! This was an “I coulda had a V8” moment when I read it. I’m about to build my niche just like the one you show in your example except I’ll be running my glass mosaics vertically.

Like your example, I am using Kerdi-Board, which is where my question lies. It appears that you are only using silicone to seal the joints and you are not using Kerdi-wrap on either the joints or over the screws in the rest of the installation. I’m particularly interested in the transition from the flat wall to the niche opening. Am I missing something? FYI, I already read your “How to Build a Niche” postings which is why I have the questions.

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Roger

Hey Tom,

I use a combination of kerdi-fix (not silicone) and hydroban. I’m a cross-method hack like that. :D You can just use the kerdi-fix on the seams, though. They do still need to be taped and mudded if you go that route, though. Around the niche you can just use the kerdi-fix.

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Tom

Sorry Roger, I’m still a little confused by your answer when I look at the picture. I’m asking a lot of questions because I was planning to construct my niche using Kerd-board and insert it into a hole I cut into my Kerdi-board wall.
1) Are the back seams Kerdi-fix only?
2) Is the seam in the front of the niche where it meets the main wall Kerdi-fix only, or Kerdi-fix and Hydroban? That’s where I would expect to see Kerdi-Band.
3) Did you build that Kerd-niche as a separate unit and just slide it into a hole you cut? If so, are you supporting it in the same way as you demonstrated in your “How to Build a Niche” postings? Or, do you have another method when using the Kerdi-board?

I know this started out as a mosaics post, but it contains sample pictures that are identical to my application and are not in your niches postings. Sorry for straying off-topic.

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Roger

All the seams inside my niche are kerdi-fix only. I do build them as separate units and slide them into the wall the next day. I only use one 2×4 (on the bottom under the niche) with the kerdi-board niches. The outside seam, where it meets the wall, has both kerdi-fix and hydroban on it, although kerdi-fix only is sufficient (I’m anal…).

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momelisse

Hi Roger Elf,
You’re building a bounty of good karma with this site and your service to others. And a HUGE thanks from me. I could kiss you. Or your dog if your wife would prefer ;)
My project plan: to the studs demo of an 8 x 12 bathroom with a contractor assisted DIY remodel – new tiled double plywood floor (currently carpet – yuk!!), tiled walls for the new corner shower using a 48″ x 32″ acrylic pan (sorry,) and a replacement tub – also in a tiled wall corner (actually a tiled bench/cupboard between the tub and wall on the short side for whirlpool motor access.)
Using Hydroban over Hardie backerboard and a rectified 12″ x 24″ porcelain, Laticrete Spectralock Pro and Latisil (I’ve used Spectralock/Latisil and wouldn’t consider anything else.) Probably Laticrete 254 Platinum White. Possibly Ditra on the floor determined after demo.
First question:
My new bathtub is a Neptune Wind whirlpool – a small corner tub with an integrated curved apron (non-removable)… I’ve been fussing about the aesthetics of tile – apron interface at the floor and my lack of experience tiling along a curve. You told someone in the comments it was OK to tile the floor under an acrylic shower pan and it actually would result in a “cleaner look.” Is it also OK to tile the floor under an acrylic whirlpool tub?
If not, have you ever used any of Schluter’s trims made to be installed on a radius?
Advice?
Again, many thanks!

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Roger

Hi momelisse,

Yes to both. It is fine to install tile under that tub. And yes, I have used the radius trims from schluter – they work very well and look cool! In fact I used them in the bronze finish around the top of these curbs: Fort Collins master bathroom tile with glass block walls

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momelisse

Appreciated seeing the radius trim in action, thanks for the Fort Collins link! Which to you looks more professional – tiling under the tub, a well cut curve or a trimmed curve?
Another question –
Is there a super secret recipe book for color matching grout?
Using the manufacturer’s printed color charts, Custom’s Bone #382 is the best match for my tile… but I’ve already purchased the Laticrete Spectralock Pro A and B (my preferred grout anyway.)
Light Pewter 90 is a bit green(?) and Marble Beige 17 a bit beige (duh).
I was hoping someone, somewhere, had gone to the trouble to figure it out, like:
X% Light Pewter + Y% Marble Beige = Custom’s Bone.
Or whatever mix of 2-3 colors. Am I in luck or just wishful thinking?

Thanks for being so giving of your time and knowledge
PS – I may steal the in-wall towel warmer idea… brilliant!

Reply

Roger

I prefer under the tub when possible.

There is no secret formula, it’s not something most of us mess with – we let the chemists at the manufacturing facilities deal with that. I don’t know of any list as you’ve mentioned. I’d love to have one, I just don’t think one exists.

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momelisse

Still reading advice in your comments. A treasure of additional info. I’m going for a quite modern look and would like the walls where tile and sheetrock meet to be in the same plane. No bullnose, no tile sticking out further than than the adjacent wall. I’ve found pictures where its been done but very little info on how. What is your opinion on using 1/4″ inch Hardiebacker instead of 1/2″ on walls? It seems the 1/2″ is always recommended. But reading the comparison charts on the Hardie site, the 1/4″ actually has more compressive and flexural strength than the standard Progrid Hardie 1/2″. (Sorry, don’t know how to add the link to the chart) Seems like only problem using 1/4″ is it won’t meet up with sheetrock like most others want… yet will work for me. Whatcha think?
P.S. thinking vinyl L bead on the sheetrock edge and a thin silicone caulk line to the tile – am I on the right track?
Thanks Roger.

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momelisse

Forgot to mention, I plan to use alkali resistant mesh tape and thinset on the 1/4″ Hardie to the sheetrock transition with silicone between the tile and remainder sheetrock. My mind pictures the tape folding down the L bead to the lower Hardie. Only in my imagination or a possibility?

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Roger

Hi momelisse,

Not sure what chart you’re reading but I highly doubt that the 1/4″ backer has more flexural strength than the 1/2″. At least that’s my experience, 1/4″ backer is extremely bendy. :D 1/4″ backer is not recommended for wall substrates due to the flexing in the joist bays, it simply flexes too much to hold your tile in place. If you add more joists or cross-joists to your shower wall then you could realistically do it, but it would need to be extremely sturdy.

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momelisse

The comparison chart pdf link at the bottom of this page:
http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/landing-hardiebacker.shtml
is where it shows the flexural and compressive strengths of the 1/4″ and 1/2″ hardiebackers. Maybe I’m misunderstanding the data? Interestingly in their FAQ accessed from the same page, Hardie says the 1/4″ is OK to use in a shower.
But if you don’t advise it – that’s enough for me. Thanks for saving me from a potential disaster!
Glad I asked – I’ll just have to re-think how to do the build.

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Roger

You are not misunderstanding anything. The comparison charts have the 1/2″ hardiebacker 500 at 1700 psi (flexural) and the 1/4″ hardiebacker at 2100 psi (flexural). I simply do not see how that is accurate, but I’m gonna do some digging and find out what’s going on there. The only difference is the 1/2″ is the 500 and the 1/4″ is not. I’ll find out what’s going on there.

As for your shower, if you put cross braces between your studs every three feet I think your 1/4″ will be fine. While it is approved for use on shower walls, it si not ‘recommended’ per ANSI – the 1/2″ is. With manufacturers you need to read both what they write and (sometimes more importantly) what they don’t write. :D

If you’re set on having that flush transition there’s no reason you can’t do it, just put the cross blocking in there to ensure your wall is sturdy enough.

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momelisse

I truly appreciate your time and advice. Since this is a gut job, we’ll be able to add the blocking you’re suggesting… after I have sheets of both 1/2″ and 1/4″ in my hands to see how I feel about the “bendy-ness.” A well built shower trumps aesthetics in my house.

And besides, if ANSI says so :wink:
(My work is full of Standards – they exist for a reason so I believe in ’em )

In trying to get a grip on the numbers Hardie shows I was thinking maybe the greater flexural strength of the 1/4″ may mean the force (psi) to break point is higher than for the 1/2″. Yes, it bends more – but it takes more force to actually break it?

madcowscarnival

I can help out here. The flexural strength of the board is likened to fiber stress in bending of wooden materials. The 1/4″ board may have a higher fiber stress but will still not be as strong. It comes down to the section modulus of the material. The depth of the material increases section modulus by the square. The 1/2″ is approximately 4 times as “stiff” as the 1/4″.

momelisse

Hi Roger –
The contractor I’m working with is a bit unsure about my flush in plane transition between tile and drywall. At this point he’s urging me to add in a Shluter trim (he’d never heard of it until I showed him – he’s a GC, not a tile guy)

I would appreciate help in sizing. Shluter and others recommend using the same size as the depth of the tile – 3/8″ in my case. But I’d read someone suggesting to go up one size to also hide the thinset layer. Covering the thinset edge sounds good to me… how does sizing up sound to you or would you recommend against it?

Also he plans on doubling up the sheetrock to bring it out (trim or not.) I’d anticipated furring instead, a la Mr. Whipple:
“We used 5/8″ plywood furring strips to fur out the wall studs on our last shower renovation and some standard 1/2″ L Beads to create a flush tile to drywall transition.”
Which method do you think would be best, plywood furring or sheetrock doubling?

My gratitude for your time,
melissa
PS – Don’t walk through my bathroom door – you’ll fall into the crawlspace!

Reply

Roger

I always get the exact size. There will not be a 1/16″ of thinset under the edge of the trim, if there is you’re doing it wrong. It locks into the thinset, it doesn’t ‘float’ on it.

John is correct (that happens every year or two :D ), it would be better to use the plywood.

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momelisse

Hi Roger –
How important is it that the Hardie wall to drywall ceiling transition be taped and thinsetted? Any difference if its at a corner shower versus a tiled non-wet wall? The ceiling is existing painted and lightly textured sheetrock. My guess they didn’t tape and thinset that joint to avoid ceiling work as its fine other than a one foot+ square repair where the old fan vent was.
Thanks,
melissa

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Roger

Hi Melissa,

It’s not ideal that it isn’t, but it’s not dire either. Provided that transition from the tile to the ceiling is siliconed it shouldn’t be a problem. That, of course, may vary in different areas. Places like Mississippi, for instance, will see more movement from humidity than we do here in Colorado.

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momelisse

He does plan on silicone at the ceiling
– we’ll discuss tape and thinset in the AM –
we are in rock-n-rollin’ California after all!

You are such a great guy and I truly appreciate all the advice you’ve given me – and others because I’ve learned from those responses as well. Already purchased the ebooks I need so made a modest donation to hfotusa.org. Thanks Roger!
melissa

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momelisse

Hello again,
Despite the furring and planing the studs for the Hardie my contractor ended up with a not so flat wall. 4 feet is shower with Hydroban of appropriate thickness and and 8 feet of tiled non wet wall he painted with the diluted primer coat of Hydroban (why?? I dunno) Today while I was at work he “floated” out the dips and bulges with large patches of Laticrete Multimax 255, the thinset he’ll use to put up the 12″ x 24″ porcelain. Was this OK to do?
Tiling starts in a few hours – it will be too late by the time you see this but something about it bugs me. Seems like the gouges and blebs on the surface aren’t right either. Hopefully I’m overthinking.
Also – was the Hardie wall to plywood floor transition outside the shower supposed to be taped and thinsetted or at least siliconed? Stratamat went over and its sure filling with debris there (especially after today.) And it seems if water gets past the glass wall it has an easy path past the Stratamat to the subfloor plywood.
As always, thank you!
melissa

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momelisse

P.S. re: the Hardie to ceiling transition was filled with DAP acrylic. He offered to redo it with tape and thinset… but I told him too late – a mistake? On the short second wall (an exterior wall with tiling a day or 2 away) should I have him at least replace the acrylic caulk with silicone? Or bite the bullet and have it taped and thinset?
I haven’t had the heart to after having him break out half the floor tile for a redo. Luckily I’m happy with the second go round. And for the most part, it was on his dime.

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Roger

It’s fine with caulk. If you want him to tape and mud the short wall over the caulk that would be fine also.

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Roger

Yes, it’s fine to float the wal with 255. No, the transition to the floor does not need to be taped and mudded nor siliconed. Water containment is built into the shower, there should not be a significant enough amount of water to get out of the shower, through the tile and grout on the floor, past the thinset and strata-mat and into your subfloor. If it does you have bigger problems.

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momelisse

Well, I’m back.
I have a call in to Laticrete but no reply yet…
I would appreciate advice on knocking back Spectralock Premium Pro that’s high in the joint after install about 20 hours ago.

Despite working beside my contractor and grouting two areas together – with careful review of procedures and another rundown the morning before the walls were to be grouted, he decided to speed fill all the joints then eat lunch for a minimum of an hour before the first wash.

After firing him this morning (the proverbial straw) I’ve stayed home to try to make the walls of 12 x 24 porcelain with 1/8 – 3/16 grout joints look better. The problem is the tooling at the joints – he’d actually done a decent job removing the epoxy residue and of all the recommendations Soft Scrub worked best for the remainder. But since the grout was so stiff the surface is lumpy and bumpy and uneven. The dips I can add to but a some of it is proud of the tile. Any advice on knocking it back and leveling it out?

So far straight vinegar and my thumbnail (gone now) has worked best. Concentrating on the most visible areas but SO slow going and the clock is ticking as it cures even further. The narrow piece of plastic I’m using now to scrape it back seems safer for the porcelain than a metal tool.

Also, the grout surface is still left a bit more rough than I’d like… what are your thoughts about dressing it with a thin application of primarily parts A and B with just a little of C to smooth it out?

Thank you Roger.
melissa

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Roger

Grab a heat gun or hair dryer and heat it up. You can use the plastic scraper to level it out and/or tool it better after it’s heated.

Miles A Brumberg

I have a basic white shower stall pan. I would like to paint it to complement the color tile my wife and I chose to re-do our stall shower. What can you recommend what paint i can use to paint it with.

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Roger

Hi Miles,

You can get refinishing kits online to paint them. Just google ‘acrylic refinishing kits’.

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GizmoGuy411

I recently needed to remove a wall tile in a niche that did not line up as well as I wanted once the mortar dried.

Since I had access to the edge I used the long blade on my oscillating multi-tool to grind into the motar. While it was not long enough to go all the way, I was able to break the tile and use the tool again until it was completely out. Although the blade was intended for wood, ruining it was worth the sacrifice to accomplish a clean tile removal.

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Roger

Good idea! A drywall knife and a hammer does it too, just slow going.

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Gene

Roger,

You are probably tired of answering questions about how to install tile so here is one about how to surgically remove tile.

I mistakenly applied travertine stone (8×16) to kerdi board on one side of a corner before I applied the kerdi membrane to waterproof the corner. Two tiles need to be removed. Suggestions for getting the stone and the Ditraset off of the wall without destroying the kerdi board or the adjacent tile?

Thanks

Gene

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Roger

The only suggestion I have is to remove it right after you put it on. :D Other than that you’ll likely destroy the kerdi-board. You can try using a drywall knife and a hammer and possibly ‘slice’ it off of there, it may or may not work.

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Nicole

So what do you cut this with – a regular wet tile saw? Glass cutter? Angle grinder?

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Roger

Hi Nicole,

Most of the time I cut them with my Sigma. You can cut them with a wet saw or a glass cutter as well. An angle grinder will chip it too much.

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Roger

I think you’re correct. I was thinking about that and the fact that the 1/4″ bend more may actually require more BREAKING power to snap it, but it would actually need less force to bend it than does the 1/2″.

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Oddjob

Hey Roger,

I questioned you about the glass block/open shower application a few weeks ago when you suggested just using glass block mortar to assemble the wall. My wall is being built on a tiled curb as was yours and I was wondering if you had to do anything special to get the glass block mortar to “grab” onto the tile?

On a different subject, when doing a back-splash in a kitchen area, do you install cement board or Kerdi? Or can you just thin-set right onto the existing wall whether it be plaster or drywall?

Thanks,

Oddjob

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Roger

The mortar bonded very well to the tile. You can scarify it if you want, although there is rarely a need. Sometimes I replace the substrate, most times I don’t. You can bond tile right to the drywall.

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Oddjob

Thanks Roger. I’ll just bed my glass block right onto the tiled curb.

I forgot to ask in my last post but when grouting a fully tiled shower is it best to work from the floor up or the ceiling down?

Thanks.2469936 17722

Reply

Roger

It’s best to do it whichever way you feel most comfortable doing it. :D

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