How to install a control joint in a tile installation

by Roger

Line for the control joint

Photo 1

In my previous post I beat you to death with the reasons why you absolutely need a soft joint (control joint) in certain tile installations. Sorry about that, I have a hard time expressing how important they are without being a dick. They”re important – really. So now that I’ve properly reprimanded you it’s time to show you how to do it. :D

Cleaning out the line for the control joint

Photo 2

You need to figure out where your control joints will be located before you grout. I will sometimes take pieces of blue tape and mark that line every few feet or so ’cause I get dizzy easily. The less grout you get in it the better. You will need to clean out any grout that ends up in there so try not to let it end up in there.

Cleaned out line for the control joint

Photo 3

Once you have your floor grouted and before the grout is cured (do this right after you grout) you need to clean out the control joint. I use a ‘hook knife’ which is just a curved blade that I can run down the joint to loosen all the grout (that’s what that funny looking tool is in the picture).

After you do that you can take your shop-vac and suck all the grout out of that line. Be careful not to remove grout in the adjacent lines! Keep your hose an inch or so away from the tile. (Wow, that sentence is ripe for a very bad joke) In photo 1 you can see the grout in the lines crossing the control joint – you want to simply cut straight down the control joint across these lines. When you vacuum out the grout be careful not to remove grout from those lines also. (If you click on photo 2 you can see what I mean)

Photo 3 shows the control joint all scraped out. Again, you can click on it (it’s huge) and see where I’ve cut across the other grout lines. Then just vacuum it all out. Photo 4 shows the line ready for caulk. Most manufacturers have a matching grout or silicone for whatever color grout you choose. If not, Laticrete has a large number of colored silicones called Latasil and color charts to see which would best match your grout.

Control joint ready for caulk or silicone

Photo 4

Once you have your control joint all cleaned out just fill it up to the top with matching caulk or silicone. Make sure you get the line full – you don’t want any hollow spots in the line which will eventually end up cracking or disappearing. You can run a damp sponge down the line once you get it full to smooth out the top.

You may need to do this more than once depending on the width of your grout lines. After the caulk or silicone has cured it may shrink a bit too much to look acceptable. If that is the case then go ahead and run another bead down the line to fill it back in.

That’s it. Photo 5 shows the completed control joint. I used a matching caulk on this installation which will darken as it cures. Once cured the color will match the grout exactly.

Completed control joint in tile installation

Photo 5

And there you go. Now you can go out and be a tile ninja and berate people because they have no idea what a control joint is in relation to a tile installation. You can look like a superstar because you can explain to people why their tile looks like a teepee (Read my last post) or why their floor sounded like a gunshot last night. That’ll scare the hell out of you – believe me.

If you have any questions at all about whether your installation needs a control joint or not – just ask me in the comments below! I’ll answer you when I get home from work – really – read around. I’m fairly personable. :D

And don’t forget to sign up for TileTips!

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Sunny

Hi Roger, thanks for your sharing, I saw you used a “hook knife” to clean the joint, so I think you might be interested in our new tool for that job. It is a hand tool with a carbide tip in 1-4mm sizes. Designed specifically for grout joint 1-4mm. So it can better fit into the seams between tile, easily run down the joint, remove the thin-set mortar out and with little danger of chipping or scratching your tile. It is light weight, safe, green and also very cheap. :dance:

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debra

reading blogs and questions and coming up with my own…doing research…house currently has tile laid directly on cement, of course cracked and broken. Will be replacing and I understand the need for backerboard; but something in one of the above questions has me asking: can I use redgard throughout the house instead of backerboard?

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Roger

Hi Debra,

You don’t use backerboard over concrete. You can use a membrane like ditra, or yes, you can use redgard. Believe it or not the ditra would actually be the cheaper option. :D

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mike

Hi Roger, new to your site – incredible stuff…

I’m going to install 1/2″ travertine in a ‘french pattern’ over Ditra using the Ditra-set mortar above and below, in a rectangular room that’s about 27′ square, with a central floor-to-ceiling fireplace. Clearly, expansion control joints are required. I was planning on using one of Schluter’s expansion joint products – probably the one with the replaceable membrane – and break the room up into four quadrants. However, after reading this thread, maybe I’d be better off just using silicone, following the tile pattern, so I wouldn’t have the obvious straight seams (and more tile cutting) using the Schluter expansion control joint product. What’s your thoughts on using the Schluter expansion product? Would you use it, or go with silicone? If I did use it, what installation tips would you give me?

Thanks in advance for your time…

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Roger

Hi Mike,

The schluter expansion profiles work well with straight installations, on your patterned one I would use silicone.

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Mary

Hey Roger,

Is there any reason to install the soft joint after grouting a tile installation, or could you do the caulk first and then the grout? Are there pros/cons for either order, or does it not matter?

Thanks!
Mary

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Roger

Hi Mary,

Doesn’t matter. Time is the only factor. I don’t have time to silicone first, wait a day for it to cure before I can grout.

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Paul

OK. After reading your replies. I think you already answered my question. Zig zag soft joint from wall to wall at transition areas. Check.

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Paul

I am putting down 9″ x 36″ porcelain planks on slab ( 4 rooms open floor plan no doorways ~ 1300 sq ft. ). I have 130 sq ft of Ditra XL left over from bathroom job. Any value in XL over concrete vs 1/8″ standard? Also wrt a control joint with staggered planks, can the joint be staggered as well or is it best to have a straight line? If that makes sense. Thanks ever so much.

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Roger

Hi Paul,

XL is simply thicker for most purposes. While it does lend more uncoupling than regular ditra, it’s not necessarily needed for an installation over normal concrete. Yes, you can stagger the control joint.

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Ray Stark

I have a large rectangular workshop. I am throwing down 12×24 porcelain tiles because PAINT IS FOR SISSIES WHO WEAR SLIPPERS IN THEIR GARAGE!!!!! THERE! I SAID IT!!!

OK, per you eloquent but practical butt chew above, for the lateral and vertical expansion joints ( as viewed from above) the concrete dudes installed with a crack tool, I plan to apply 24″ wide sticky-back fabric crack isolation material over these joints, lay my tile using Megalite and then use a sanded caulk to Z-pattern back and forth down the fabric membrane both horizontal and vertical (as viewed from above!!). Once the caulk sets up, I’ll go back with regular 1/8″ sanded grout. Will that give the panels enough wiggly-jiggly room with 1/8 joints? The floor is 24 years old and only has cracks down in the crack joint and they are 1/8 or less. Very stable.

Befre I found your blog, I was pondering saw-cutting the tile over the tile joint but your suggestions above got me wondering if just running a soft joint down the isolation membrane would do the job. I await your answer.

Bonus question: Should I fill the crack joint with a soft goo like caulk or foam rope and RTV before laying down the isolation membrane???

Thanks in advance for the answers…

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Ray Stark

Change of plans…

I am going to use Custom Megalite (recommended by Custom for medium bed installations of porcelain) and coat only the hairline crack areas with a coat of Red Guard -per Custom’s suggestion.

As for the crack joints, I am going to fill them in with 50-year caulking and then install the tile right up to the joint, expanding the crack joint from 1/8″ to 1/4″ over these joint areas. I’ll wipe the joints clean of any mortar down to the caulk with a tuck-pointing tool or piece of 1/4″ Masonite as I install the tiles. Once the mortar sets up and I can walk on the tiles, I’ll go back and fill in all the joint cracks with matching sanded caulk. Once that hardens up, I’ll hit it with regular grout everywhere else. Hopefully, that will allow any movement to occur. The slabs (all the pieces bisected by the crack joints) are good and solid so I will just use mortar to bond the tile on them. Supposedly, the Megalite has a tolerance of up to 1/8″ of movement. Must be full of stryofoam chunkules as its also much lighter than standard mortar.

As for the tile baseboards, I am going to suspend those so the mortar doesn’t fill the gap between the floor tile and the wall. I’ll caulk the gap after set-up with grout caulk too and then use regular grout on the top edge.

Thanks for giving me time to work this out in my mind for a better solution. You must be busy and that is a good thing. Or, on a week-long bender. Hope its the former. :whistle:

Ray

PS Loved the work on your REAL work site. No wonder you are busy.

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Roger

I am SUPER busy, no week-long bender (that’s in two weeks when I go on vacation :D ).

Sounds like a great solution.

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Roger

Hi Ray,

That will work just fine. And yes, I would fill the crack joint with silicone or foam before installing the membrane – it keeps thinset out of it. Unless your membrane isn’t installed with thinset, in that case don’t worry about it.

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Ray Stark

The Custom call center recommended solution is merely Red Guard over cracks 1/8 and smaller -which is everything but the man-made crack joints. I will use no membrane as the Red Guard serves as a membrane. (Using Red Guard and Custom mortar satisfies the lifetime warranty requirements issued by Custom. I am good with a warranty! It includes labor for the repair! Yeah! Like THAT is ever gonna happen! :) )

The crack joints have been caulked with a 50-year caulk with silicone about half way up the joint and, thanks to your suggestions, the man-made crack joints will travel up through that caulk to the sanded caulk. Each “panel” of concrete will be mortared as usual using MegaLite to the concrete except for the small areas coated with Red Guard, which the mortar “floats on.”

To isolate the two adjacent mortar bases at the crack joint, I am going to try and use a 1/4″ piece of Masonite to slide down the crack to stop mortar from oozing into the joint. I’ll make sure it is clean as possible before moving off the joint area. By the time I get working on the adjacent tiles, the first side of the joint should be pretty well set up. When I am done, there should be a nice 1/4″ clear path to the caulking with mortar on both sides. I am taking pictures an will upload these to a garage building site. I’ll come back here and post the link when I get it done.

Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to help know-nothings like me.

(Catch-up for newbies like I was a few weeks back:

I am using all Custom products from Homie ‘Po.

I am laying 12 x 24 porcelain tiles in a garage/workshop. Porcelain doesn’t work as well with standard thin-set mortars because it is almost completely impervious to moisture absorption. So, they put some extra-sticky bonder into porcelain mortar.

The Custom guys consider any tile larger than 18″ to be a “big” tile requiring a thicker mortar bed. Thinset is for 1/4″ notch trowel or smaller. I am using a medium bed mortar, ($40 per bag) that also has the ability to “wiggle” a little without breaking the tile. Porcelain is harder than ceramic tile and I want to isolate the tile as much as possible to prevent any cracks. I will install that with a 1/2″ notched trowel.)

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chris z

Yet another question for you. I would like to lay my nice big 20″ porcelain tiles on a diagonal over a control joint. Of course i will need something like redguard over it. This would make the soft joint in the tile zig-zag up to a maximum of about 6 1/2″ from the joint in the concrete. Is tbere better way to do this?
No ditra in the budget. Bostick porcelain-mate thinset unless you tell me it is crap and to return it.

Thanks for all your help man. Or Elf.

Whatever, just thanks

CCZ

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Roger

Hi Chris,

Yes, that is the best way to do it. The bostik thinset is a very good one.

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shaunae

Awesome info! Thanks! I have an area that I am trying to figure out the best placement for the soft joints. It’s a 30x 30 large room separated into 4 smaller rooms by load bearing walls. So essentially it’s 4 different rooms but all connecting and open besides the two load bearing walls. This makes up the kitchen, family room, living room, and formal dining room. Each little room is 15×15 about but I am wanting to do a continuous flow of tile between all. Distance across the two rooms is 30 feet from wall. Then there is a 25 foot hall that connects to the 30×30 area described above. The hall is 5 feet wide. I am using 12×24 tile and laying it in 1/3 running bond pattern such that I will not have a continuous line along the 25 foot hall because of the staggering. I will have a continuous line across the 30 foot wall to wall section. What would you suggest for soft joints? Also, are soft joints only effective when the run the entire length of the line from wall to wall? Thanks for any tips and hopefully any of that made sense.

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Roger

Hi Shaunae,

I would have a soft joint in all doorway or room transitions and at each end of the hallway (if it does not end at a wall). Soft joints need to extend wall to wall, but they don’t need to be a straight line, just a continuous line, KnowWhatIMean? You can jog the soft joint in the z pattern of your staggered layout as long as it is one continuous line.

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mike

I am tiling over the original t&g wood floor. Is this a suitable substrate for schluter ditra?

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Roger

Hi Mike,

Nope, you need to go over that with plywood first.

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