Shower Waterproofing Manual

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How to Build a Niche for your Shower – Part 1

by Roger

This four part series describes methods to create a niche in your shower wall for tile. Please read through all four parts before starting. Your layout dictates the size and placement of your niche. You need all this information before making a hole in your wall! Or don’t – it isn’t my shower, eh? :whistle:

How to build a built in shower niche / shelfFraming

A shower niche, shelf, cubby, beer Pepsi storage, whatever you want to call it is one of the most requested add-ons for any showers I build. After all, everyone needs a place to store the important stuff – like your rubber ducky, as well as the unimportant stuff like soap and shampoo. So being the super-cool, quirky, lovable (with a healthy dose of jackassery) guy that I am – I’m gonna show you how to build one.

To the left you will see a photo of a niche with a shelf – we’re not gonna build that one. It’s just there to show you what you can do with the technique I am describing. I will explain how to do that in the last part of this series.

With any shower niche there are a couple of details you should pay attention to which will make it look like it belongs there rather than something you looked at drunk one night and thought “Hey! Let’s cut a hole in the shower wall so I can put my rubber ducky in there.” That’s not really a good look – rubber ducky or not.

One of the most important things I always do is line up the top and bottom (and sides if possible) with the grout lines in the field tile. The field tile is just the main tile on your shower wall. In doing this you keep the flow of the shower consistent and the niche doesn’t look like an afterthought – I hate that.

The way I do this is to actually install part of the field tile up to that point then I cut my niche out of the wall. This ensures you fall exactly on a grout line and don’t miss it by 1/4″ because you miscalculated. So, you need to have your wall all prepped and ready and some tile already installed before we start with the niche.

Before you start installing tile there are a couple of things you need to do. As you are preparing your walls for tile with backerboard, drywall and Kerdi, elastomeric liquid topical waterproofing membrane (No, I didn’t have my pinky in the air as I typed that. It’s just liquid membrane like Redgard) or whatever waterproofing method you’ve chosen, you need to write down the measurements to the inside and outside of the two studs between which you plan to install your niche.

Your niche needs to be placed between two wall studs. These are (normally) 14 1/2″ apart so assuming you have 12″ or 13″ tiles you can build a niche the size of one full tile wide. If you want one like the photo above it will be one tile wide and two high. Write those measurements down because once you get your walls up and ready to cut the niche out you need to know exactly where to cut.

If you have unusually placed studs (insert lame joke here) you will need to frame out the sides of the niche before covering them up with your wall substrate. Do not frame the top and bottom, only the sides. The top and bottom will be framed after we figure out exactly where they need to be placed and that happens after you already have some tile installed.

If you do end up framing it you need to add an inch to the measurement. If you have 12″ tiles make the studs 13″ apart. This is so you can add a 1/2″ piece of drywall or backerboard to each stud and have the correct measurement for your tile.

Completed tile shower niche

We're gonna build this one

The photo to the right is the niche I am going to walk you through. I chose this particular niche because it illustrates the point about the grout lines. And because I have pictures of it from start to finish. See how the sides and top and bottom of the niche all line up with the grout lines in the rest of the tile? It looks like it belongs there. That’s what I mean when I say type that.

This niche is 13 x 13 x 3 inches. The 13′s because that is the size of the tile and the 3 because that is the width of the bullnose. You can make the niche as deep as your wall will allow if you chose but(!) if your bullnose is only three inches wide and you choose to make your niche 3 1/2 inches deep (which is usually the amount of space between walls) you will have a 1/2″ sliver of tile on each plane of the niche behind the bullnose – and that looks like crap! So don’t do that.

Or if you chose to do that please tell everyone “the FloorElf showed me how to make that! Yeah, I know it looks like crap – he said it was gonna look like crap – but I did it anyway.” I’d appreciate it.

One more thing before we start (get on with it already!), this shower is built using the Kerdi membrane and drywall. You can, however, utilize this method with any type of shower you are building.

If you are using simply cement backerboard with a moisture barrier you will need to get Kerdi or one of the aforementioned fancy-ass word waterproofing liquids to make the niche waterproof. You cannot place a moisture barrier behind this and have it be waterproof – it simply won’t work. And your rubber ducky may burst into flames and who wants that? So snuff out your rubber ducky and lets get this damn thing built!

You may click on any of the photos below for a full-size version of how horrible my photography skills actually are.

Marking and cutting the opening for a tiled shower niche

1. Cutting the opening.

Photo 1: I have marked and cut out the opening for the niche. To the right of the niche I have installed a vertical row of tile and marked the lines with a level line from the grout joints between those tiles. That’s the big secret to getting everything lined up.

The opening is cut to the exact size. Notice on the right side of the opening you can barely make out the wall stud? That’s because there is 1/2″ space between the right side of the opening and the stud. I will install a 1/2″ piece of drywall there to bring the side flush with the opening.

In case you are unfamiliar with it – the bright orange on the wall is the Schluter Kerdi membrane. It is a thin polyethylene sheet which is installed directly to drywall to waterproof your shower. And its awesome. Just sayin’.

Inserting the horizontal framing for a tiled shower niche

2. Inserting the horizontal framing

Photo 2: Measure the exact distance between the studs. Measure the top and the bottom – they may be a bit different and these measurements need to be exact. Now add 1/16″ to the measurement and cut a 2×4 that size. One for the top and one for the bottom.

Place the 2×4 between the studs and tap it down with a hammer. Don’t bang on it like its the last DMV employee you spoke with – just tap it lightly. You do not want to pound it down too far. If you do you’re SOL.

If you do happen to pound it down too far you can drive a screw into the top of it and pull it back up. You may want to use the claw on your hammer to get a good grip on it. Do not pry your hammer back like you are attempting to pull the screw out! Just place it on there in the same manner and lift the 2×4 back up.

Top and bottom framing for tiled shower niche

3. Tap the 2 x 4's 1/2" down past the opening

Photo 3: Tap the 2×4 down 1/2″ past the edge of the opening you’ve cut out. Exactly 1/2″. This will allow you to install the 1/2″ drywall or backerboard to bring the top and bottom flush with the opening. Now put two screws into each one. Screw them from the front right through your substrate into the 2×4′s. You can see that in photo 4 – two in the top and two in the bottom. This keeps them in place.

If you did not previously frame the sides to the exact width (which I did with this particular niche so it is not shown) you will need to add additional framing to the sides to bring them in 1/2″ from the opening as well. You need every side of the niche 1/2″ away from the opening you’ve cut out of your wall.

Just screw any additional pieces directly to the side studs. You can use a 2×4 (1 1/2″ wide) a 1×2 (3/4″ wide) or build up 1/2″ and/or 1/4″ plywood strips to whatever you need to get them to the correct spot.

Sides of niche completed with substrate

4. Inside of niche with substrate installed

Photo 4: Notice the two screws through the wall into each horizontal framing member?

Cut strips of your drywall or backerboard to the correct dimensions for the inside of the niche. In this case two each of 3 1/2″ by 14″ and 3 1/2″ by 13″. The 14″ place on the top and bottom and the 13″ on the sides. Screw those directly to the 2×4′s.

The bottom piece needs to be slightly higher in the back than the front! It needs to slope towards the opening. This is to ensure that water drains correctly out of it. By slightly I mean very – less than 1/16″ higher in the back than the front. You can just place a small cardboard drywall shim or something similar under the back part of the bottom piece. It cannot be level but you don’t want the top of your shampoo bottle sticking out of the niche – knowwhatimean? Just slope it VERY slightly. Just enough for water to drain but not enough for your soap to slide out of it.

If you have installed the niche framing correctly the sides of the niche as well as the top and bottom should all be absolutely flush with the opening you have cut out. If not remove the offending piece and redo it. If it is not flush your niche will not come out correctly. Fix it now – later is too late.

At this point the top and bottom of your niche should be exactly level with a grout line. If so, well done, move on. If not, well, start over.

Now the final step in framing out your niche will be installing the substrate on the back. If you do not want a 3″ deep niche – you need to figure out the math yourself. If you do want a 3″ deep niche – hey, your in luck. I just happen to have photos of one.

Installing a filler piece for the back of the niche

5. Installing a filler piece for the back of the niche

Photo 5: Cut a piece of your substrate about 1/2″ smaller than your niche opening. This is simply a filler piece for the back. You want a 3″ niche and a 2×4 is 3 1/2″ thick. If you place a 1/2″ filler in the back of the niche POOF! – 3″ niche. (That’s a good name for a band)

Install this filler piece with thinset. If you have a wall on the other side of this wall you do not want to use nails or screws or your wife is gonna kill you for drilling a screw through grandma’s eye in the portrait hanging on the other side of that wall. Thinset is less heartache.

This is a perfect example of why you want to have at least a very general idea of your layout and tile sizes before you start any tile installation. Any add-ons you choose to use will usually center around the specific size of the tile to look correct. If you build your niche for 13″ tile and end up with 12″ tile, well, you’re screwed. It won’t look right. It will look exactly like what it is – an afterthought.

Installing the final back wall piece for your niche

6. The final piece installed and ready to waterproof. This is not yet waterproof! See Part 2

Photo 6: Then take the piece you cut out for your original opening and it will now become the back wall of your niche. And it better damn well fit. :D If it doesn’t, start over. Use thinset on this piece as well.

And that’s it, the basic building of your niche. General rules to take into consideration are:

You usually want to keep your niche the width of one tile. This eliminates any skinny pieces on either side of the niche or strangely placed lines and allows you to line everything up with a grout line. It also eliminates the need for a grout line through the back of your niche to keep the lines consistent.

Keeping the niche the width of one tile is the least important. It is open to interpretation more than the others. If you make it skinnier it may look better. Sometimes a square niche just does not look right and usually looks better in a rectangular shape instead. As long as your top and bottom measurements fall on a grout line you do not need to worry about funny cuts or lines. It’s your shower – make your niche however you think it looks best.

You want to make your niche the height of one or two tiles or one tile plus your liner piece or whatever else you’re placing in the field tile. You want it the height of whatever the space between two horizontal grout lines may be. This eliminates any “L” cuts in your tile to accommodate the niche.

Use common sense regarding whatever is on the other side of the wall you plan on installing the niche into. If there is a handball court on the other side of that wall – pick a different wall. Do the same when placing anything onto that wall. Don’t drive a 16 penny nail into it to hang a portrait of your gerbil – you’ll probably hit tile (or your rubber ducky).

If that particular wall is an outside wall and you live in a cold climate – choose another wall. You only have essentially 1/2″ of free space (your filler piece) between the back of your niche and the outside wall. You cannot get enough insulation in there to prevent freezing. And your shower will be cold, really cold. And your shampoo will freeze. Really, pick another wall.

If you have a liner or listello or row-on-point going through your shower a niche will usually look better with the top either right below it (as in the photos above) or even with the top of it. Make it look like you actually planned it. Not like this photo here:

Incorrectly installed shower niche

Garbage!

This is a photo of the shower I tore out and replaced with the one you see at the very top of the page. This is garbage! It was done by someone claiming to be a professional – bullshit! Click on it – I dare ya. Partake in the full glory of an improper tile installation. The person that installed this  is what I fondly refer to as a hack. If inflicting serious bodily harm ever becomes legal – these people are on my list. You just don’t take someones money and give them shit work and run like a little . . . sorry, I digress. Hacks piss me off.

A lot.

.

Correct placement of a tiled shower niche

Correct

I will, however, save all that fun for another post. My point was the overall look of the placement of the niches. It is way too low, it looks like a shelf for a phone with that corner bench. It does not line up (except for the very top) with any grout lines. It is not level, although you cannot see that very well. Basically it looks like someone drunk cut a random hole in the wall, stuck tile to it and called it a niche. It looks out of place – that’s what I want you to avoid.

The photo below it is from almost the same angle after it was redone correctly. See the difference? It’s all in the flow, baby! (Sorry, I had Sammy Davis Jr. going through my head just now – yeah!) It simply belongs. Very existentialistic, dont’cha think? (I learned that word in college. Comes in very handy in my day to day life as a tile contractor. :D )

In my next post I will describe how to waterproof your niche so all your hard work doesn’t disintegrate in three months. It is currently 2am and I am out of beer need to get some sleep. Until next time I would like to leave you with a photo that explains one of the biggest reasons I put my time into this blog to help you guys out. If you’re squeamish you may want to look away. Have a great night.

I give you: The Incorrect Way to Build a Niche!

Incorrectly tiled shower niche

Now that your niche is ready to waterproof let’s do that – you know, since you’re building a shower and they tend to get moist…Part 2 – Waterproofing a niche.

Tell your friends what a jackass I am!
John February 4, 2012 at 11:09 am

Hey Roger,
I’m putting a double niche in my shower with the two niches separated by a tiled shelf. To tie into some other elements, the shelf on which the tile will be installed has to be exactly 1/2″ thick. Is there a material you would suggest? My first instinct. Was MDF, but I’ve learned that my instincts are apparently terrible, so I thought I’d better ask the exlert. Thanks, John.

Reply

Roger February 4, 2012 at 7:37 pm

Hey John,

1/2″ cement backerboard would be about the only suitable substrate for that application – water won’t affect it. You can also use 1/2 kerdi-board if you have someplace it is available to you – but that’s quite a bit to spend just for the shelf substrate.

Reply

Jason February 3, 2012 at 2:32 am

Hey Roger!
Great website!  I have a quick question regarding waterproofing my self-made niche into my durock cbu.  I currently have 6 mil poly attached to my studs, and then I have Durock over the poly.  The niche I made is unfortunately on an exterior wall, and I know that is not recommended but it does look nice there.  I’m hoping the only drawback is insulation and nothing else.  But anyways, I digress…
I’m just trying to understand something.  Can you explain to me why I can’t cut up my 6 mil poly vapor barrier to fit into my niche to waterproof it?  That being instead of cutting up a sheet of waterproofing membrane such as you have excellently done in your example.  If I put 6 mil poly behind it, won’t it be water proof if I silicone any holes in it as a result of screws that are needed to attach the durock?  Or do I REALLY need to go buy something like Redgard or kerdi? 

Reply

Roger February 3, 2012 at 7:18 am

Hey Jason,

I never said you can’t do that – ever (unless I was drunk at the time). :D That is the way they used to be waterproofed all the time. Just cut the same shape out of a piece of your membrane as the kerdi waterproofing I’ve described and install it the same way behind your substrate. The only difference is that you need to silicone any fastener holes and rather than using thinset to attach the corner flaps, etc. you use silicone instead. Topical membranes simply made the technique faster and more efficient, it’s a better way to do it. But the other way works just fine.

Reply

Jason February 3, 2012 at 2:14 pm

Awesome!  You are the man, I must have misread that from you initially.  I have a couple of questions regarding my niche installation if you have the time to answer them.  The first one is, I made the mistake of installing 2 niches on an exterior wall and removed the interior insulation.  Should I cut a slit in my 6 mil poly (that I fitted to my niche already) where I made my niche and push some insulation in there?  Or is it okay to just leave it without the insulation?  I live in Missouri, and our winters aren’t soooo bad.  And is the only reason why people don’t install niches in exterior walls due to insulation loss?  Just curious
The other question I have is I found your website too late, and I already put my 6 mil poly fitted to my niche in.  I used Lowes house wrap tape for the seams as well as silicone caulking.  I ended up just cutting up a big square of 6 mill poly, shoved it in the niche, and tried to tape it down to fit in well.  It fit okay but of course had some  folds in the corners where there was overlap.  The reason I did it without cutting slits for the corners and fitting it exactly (besides not finding your website yet) was to prevent any cuts/breaches in my 6 mil poly where water could seep into my wall.  I originally thought that would be better than cutting it up.  Anyways, then I got paranoid, and then cut up a 6 mil poly again but fit it properly and put it over the previous 6 mil poly I made.  I did this out of complete stupidity and paranoia about possible breaches in my previous 6 mil poly I made for the niche (since I used some staples to staple it to the studs as well as tape).  So I made a small “moisture sandwich” around the niche area due to 2 layers of 6 mil poly there.  Everywhere else is just the normal 1 layer of poly.  Anyways, do you think this setup will be okay for the small niches I made (12X12) in an exterior wall.  I would hate to have to rip it all out and do it again.  
Also, I read a ton of stuff on your website today, it is sooooo awesome!  You’ve answered so many of my questions already (weep holes, corner shelves out of tiles, etc)!  You’re the man!

Reply

Roger February 3, 2012 at 6:42 pm

Yes, the only reason is heat loss (and frozen shampoo :D ). You’ll likely be just fine in Missoura (as my grandmother used to call it).

I also think your double-lined niche will be fine and won’t create any problems. You just don’t want stuff (including moisture) between two layers.

Reply

Jason February 3, 2012 at 7:23 pm

Whew!  I feel better now, I really didn’t want to have to rip it out and do it again. You are the man, period!  Thanks so much… I may have a few other questions as I go along, but so far after reading your website all day, you’ve answered a ton of them (caulking vs grout in plane changes, causes of cracks in tile, etc).  Thanks so much for your help, this website is the bomb!

Reply

Randi January 21, 2012 at 11:04 pm

Hi. My husband and I (I should say my husband is doing most of the work :) ) are redoing our bath/shower and were wanting to add a niche instead using attachments. We are working on a low DIY budget too.
We have a question about the backing of the niche.
You have: “Photo 5: Cut a piece of your substrate about 1/2″ smaller than your niche opening. This is simply a filler piece for the back.”
What did you use for your filler piece?
You then have: “Then take the piece you cut out for your original opening and it will now become the back wall of your niche.”
We are using 1/2″ cement Durock backer board to put our tile on and a little confused with using this on top of the filler piece. Wouldn’t we be loosing valuable depth space in our niche.
And of course we don’t want to screw through the other side of the wall. Are we able to use smaller screws to just attach the piece of backer board we cut out to the wall behind (which would be the bedroom)? I am not even sure if I am making sense anymore since we have been trying to figure this out for the past couple hours.
I appreciate the help!!
Thanks! 

Reply

Roger January 21, 2012 at 11:09 pm

Hi Randi,

I used the same material I use as my wall substrate as my filler piece. If you are using kerdi you can do that with drywall, anything else and you need to use backerboard.

You will lose depth, the reason I do it this way is that most bullnose pieces are only 3″ wide, an empty wall cavity is 3 1/2″ wide. Without the filler piece you’ll have a 1/2″ strip of tile in the back of the niche – I think that looks like crap. :D

You can install any material in the back of the niche with just thinset – no screws needed. Yes, thinset will adhere anything to the back of the drywall.

Reply

Randi January 22, 2012 at 11:06 am

Thanks!! That helped clarify.
: ) 

Reply

Grant January 15, 2012 at 7:11 am

Thanks Roger,
That’s helpful.  The other oddity, other then the width of the niche, are the tiles themselves.  My wife wants to use the floor tiles in the niche which are porcelain plank tiles 24″ x 6″ and the wall tiles are small staggered pieces of marble (don’t know what you call that type of tile) so you have to cut the end to make a straight vertical edge.  The spaces between them are less then a 1/16 th so I don’t think I use any spacers between them. (#1) Do these types of tiles change any part of the process?
One general tile question if you don’t mind.  When I tore up the old flooring I found they had  2 1/2″ of concrete and layers of tile on top of the plank sub floor.  I tore that all out and want to build it back up.  I put 3/4″ plywood down glued and screwed and am also putting cement board on top of that.  (#2) When you level a floor would you level the plywood then lay the cement board or lay the cement board and level the top layer?  I also plan on using the Schluter coupling membrane if that makes any difference. (#3) Also, if you lay a 4′ level on the floor, how much of a gap do you need to see to bother using any leveler?
Thanks again,
I really appreciate your input,
Grant 

Reply

Roger January 15, 2012 at 10:34 am

Hey Grant,

Those are offset mosaics. No, you don’t need spacers except between the sheets (normally, unless they start to scrunch together as you are installing them) and no, they don’t change the aspect of anything I’ve told you.

You had a mud deck beneath your floor tile. If you are using ditra you don’t really need the backerboard, but it doesn’t hurt anything. If using cement board only you always want to level the top layer. Installing backer screws through your leveling oftentimes cracks or compromises the leveling material.

Standards for flatness on a single horizontal plane is typically 1/8″ in eight feet – so 1/16″ is the largest gap you want to see. However! you are using a large format tile (over 15 inches on any given side) so that cuts your allowable variation in half – 1/16″ in eight feet. (Welcome to my world :D ) But, since you are using ditra you can actually use a larger trowel such as a 1/4″ x 1/4″ or 5/16″ when you install your ditra. Then, as you lay the ditra into the thinset, take your straight-edge and use it to smooth it down and flatten it. You can see how I use that technique in the post about floor heat here: Installing Suntouch In-floor Heat. I’m going over heating wire but the technique is the same.

I wouldn’t bother with the leveler at all, you already have everything you need.

Reply

Grant January 14, 2012 at 8:06 am

Hey Roger, 
Thanks for the site.  I’m doing a bath remodel and I’m currently down to the studs.  I’ve already done a lot of the framing including moving the back of the tub/shower wall.  I placed the studs to accommodate for the niche, but haven’t framed out the niche.  First my question would be is there a way to accurately frame out the niche before the cement board goes up?  My wife wants the niche approximately 3 ft wide by 1 ft high.  You already talked about adding the half inch all around for the backer board, but my second question is when you are measuring how much do you add for the membrane and thin set,  along with the grout lines?  Because, if I for instance frame out 37 inches wide for a 36 in niche, I will come up short since my boarder tiles are only 11 3/4″ long.  I know 1/4 in is way to much for the grout line, but how much do you add for all those other little variables to get an accurately sized niche?
Thanks again,
Grant 

Reply

Roger January 14, 2012 at 12:56 pm

Hey Grant,

Absolutely you can frame it out beforehand. If you want the grout lines to match up exactly, though, you’ll need to be fairly exact with your measurements and framing. The first thing to do is lay out however many tiles you’ll have from your base up to the bottom of the niche, with the spacers, just like they will be installed on the wall and measure from one end to the other. That will give you the exact size of that many tiles with the grout lines.

Take that measurement and subtract from it the thickness of your backerboard that will be used on the bottom of the niche, then subtract another 1/8″ or so for the membrane and thinset. That will give you the height of your bottom stud for the framing. To figure out the other three sides of the niche lay out the tiles that will go inside the niche and measure that and ADD the thickness of your backer plus 1/8″ – that will give you the measurement from that first stud. Always, always, always frame it out a little larger than you think it should be, about 1/8″ – 1/4″ or so. You can always build the tile inside the niche out toward the center of it to make up for that, but if you build it too small you’re SOL. :D

Reply

$$$BakeMoney$$$ December 27, 2011 at 4:41 pm

Hello Roger,

It has been some time since my last comment on this site, but one thing continues to haunt me in my dreams…well, maybe a couple of things.  Seriously, I’m such a dork and a perfectionist that I dream about weep holes and Kerdi on a regular basis…freakin’ sad I know.

I will 100% be using the topical membrane method, but I have some reservations with both the liquid & sheet products.

With regard to the liquid, I just imagine spreading the thinset w/ my trusty old trowel and unknowingly puncturing the membrane, only to find out 6 months down the road and having to rip the damn shower out.  I can only assume it is durable enough to get through the installation process, assuming of course that it is applied thick enough to begin with.

With the Kerdi sheet membrane, I can’t help but to think that as much as is mentioned throughout the site about moisture wicking that water would not in some instances wick through the paper-thin layer of thinset at the 2″ overlapped joints and reach the subtrate behind the membrane.  Also, as in the the niches where there are a number of inside & outside corners where one who might decide to construct their own Kerdi corners, what about right there in the very corner where the Kerdi is folded to form the inside corner?…Doesn’t moisture have a chance to penetrate through the membrane there?

Then, my most dreaded scenario is dealing with the damn shower drain itself.  Sure, if I were installing the Kerdi, the Kerdi Drain would be ideal.  But do you have to use the presloped, outrageously priced base or can I use the Kerdi Drain with just regular deck mud?  What if I wanted to use another drain design with the Kerdi?…what would be the best practice for waterproofing this junction point?  Suppose I go with the liquid membrane?…do you trust any other companies offerings other that Schluter when it comes to drains?

I know this is very nit-picky (<— correct spelling?…or even a word period?), but I can’t be the only yuppie who follows this site that is wondering these things.

As always, I certainly appreciate the knowledge you bestow upon your minions on a daily basis.

$$$BakeMoney$$$   

Reply

Roger December 27, 2011 at 8:11 pm

Hey bakemoney,

The easy one first – yes, you can use the kerdi drain with deck mud – it’s the only way I do it. I don’t use the styrofoam pans.

The liquid membranes, once cured, are a hell of a lot more durable than you might think. You actually need to TRY to puncture it once you get it installed.

Hydrostatic pressure prevents the water from wicking through the seams. The same applies to any custom corners with the pinholes. You can actually curl a piece of the membrane into a cone with a pinhole in the bottom and fill it with water and it won’t leak. Hydrostatic pressure, it’s a physics thing. :D It works or I wouldn’t use it. Given the numbers (and yes, I’ve actually played with the numbers – I used to be a physicist) if you had a seam at the bottom of a 1 foot square column of water the column would need to be approximately 2 MILES high before the gravitational pull of the column would cause the water to penetrate through the seam.

Reply

$$$BakeMoney$$$ December 28, 2011 at 4:40 pm

Fantastic reply, you have officially set my mind at ease on a number of issues. :dance:

What about sealing the junction point between a non-Kerdi Drain setup while still using the Kerdi membrane?…any particular “heavy-duty” silicon or other sealant you prefer?

Thanks again!   

Reply

Roger December 28, 2011 at 6:15 pm

Kerdi-fix. It’s the shit. :D

Reply

Rob December 16, 2011 at 8:14 am

Hi Roger,
I’m planning out three bathrooms so I have a lot of reading to do on your site!  Here’s the first (batch) of what will probably be many questions.
I’ll probably go with Hardi and Kerdi on the walls.  Tiles are 10″x14″.  Is the Hardi strong enough to support the niche framing or does it really need to be attached somewhere to a stud?  Do you use the Kerdi corners or just make your own?  Is it possible to cut the Hardi without damaging the partially installed field tiles?  In another article you mention that all changes in the tile plane need to be caulked not grouted, how about all the plane changes (I wanted a direct flight) in the niche.
I’m guess that I’ll end up building the niche externally so all the corners can be screwed together, cutting out the backside of the wall and attaching the niche to the studs, Hardi, and drywall when the back side is replaced.  Yes, I like things built strong.  Afterall, I don’t want ducky to take a tumble and get hurt!
 
Thanks!!!

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Rob December 16, 2011 at 8:51 am

Damn, guess I should have read ahead.
I see the next article discusses water proofing and I read the question about the plane change at the back of the nice (didn’t mention the plane changes at the inside corners or to the field tiles.  Actually in a one tile size niche, every intersection is a plane change!

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Roger December 16, 2011 at 5:41 pm

Hey Rob,

Yes, the hardi is strong enough to support your niche. You can cut the hardi out with tile partially installed, but it’s a pain in the ass. If possible either cut it out before you install the hardi or use a power tool like a dremel or rotozip to cut the hole out for your niche. If I have kerdi corners in the truck I use them, if I don’t I make ‘em. :D Caulk all inside changes of plane – including in the niche. Grout outside changes of plane.

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Rob December 16, 2011 at 8:21 pm

I’m thinking that at least for my first bathroom I should cut it after a partial tile install.  I’ll bet that I’d get the measurements wrong and cut it in the wrong place.  Inside plane changes, got it!
Thanks again!

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