There are three basic types of grout available for your tile installation. They are:
- Non-Sanded (also known as Unsanded)
- Sanded
- Epoxy
Choosing the correct grout for your particular installation will not only complete the job correctly, it will also cut down on maintenance. Properly installed and sealed grout will last for the life of your tile. So which to use and when?
Non-Sanded (or Unsanded) Grout
Unsanded grout is made specifically for grout lines smaller than 1/8 inch wide. This is a general rule. I use unsanded grout only in tile with grout lines smaller than 1/16″. Unsanded grout (all grout to different degrees) will shrink as it cures. The reason for only using it in smaller grout lines is the wider the grout lines, the more grout must be used to fill them. The more grout you have, the more it will shrink. If you try to fill grout lines that are too large the grout will shrink enough to pull away from the sides of the tile.
Unsanded grout is easier to work with, especially on vertical surfaces such as a shower wall, because it is “stickier” than the sanded variety. You can spread it onto the wall and it will stick there while you force it into the grout lines. It is also much easier on the hands than sanded. Although it is easier to work with, you need to make sure that the application for which you are using it is correct.
Sanded Grout
Sanded Grout is used for any size grout lines 1/8″ and wider. Although the specifications state unsanded grout be used in grout lines that are exactly 1/8″, you really should use sanded for them. It will ensure proper adhesion to your tile and guard against too much shrinkage. No, not Seinfeld shrinkage, grout shrinkage.
Sanded grout has fine sand added to it. This prevents the grout from shrinking too much as it cures. That’s why it is used for larger grout lines and should be used for the majority of tile installations.
If you have a polished stone such as granite, marble, limestone, and some polished travertine, you should be careful about using sanded grout. While sanded may be the correct choice for the size of grout lines, it may not be the best choice. Depending upon the polish of the stone the sand in the grout may actually scratch it. If you decide to use sanded make sure you test it in an inconspicuous area first to ensure it will not scratch your finish. Or use epoxy which would be a better choice anyway.
Epoxy Grout
Epoxy grout is the top of the line and best choice for any tile application. It can be substituted for sanded or unsanded grout. It is more sturdy than both as well as being waterproof and stain resistant.
Epoxy is a two or three part chemical consisting of the base and the activator. With some brands the color is an additional part that must be added. Once the parts are mixed a chemical reaction begins. From that point, depending on the brand of epoxy, you have only a limited amount of time to get everything grouted before the grout becomes stiff enough to be unworkable. When it reaches that point, if you do not have everything grouted you are SOL.
To help slow the cure time you can mix your epoxy then put half of it in the freezer. The cold air will slow the chemical reaction and lengthen the working time. You can then work with the other half until it is all used. Clean it up, wipe everything down, then grab the second half out of the freezer and finish up. When you first pull it out of the freezer it will be, well, frozen. It thaws quickly, though, so should be workable within a few minutes. This essentially doubles the working time of your grout and ensures you don’t have to rush through it.
Since most epoxy grouts do not contain sand (or at least not in the classic sense of sand) it will normally not scratch your tile. If you have highly polished granite or marble that’s important. Be sure to test first anyway!
Different brands of epoxy have different working times as well as some being more difficult to work with than others. The brand with which I have had the most luck and the only brand I ever use is SpectraLOCK from Laticrete. It has a longer working time than any other epoxy grout (at least any I’ve ever used) and is virtually stain proof. Please don’t take that to mean the you can grout a jacuzzi with it, fill it with cherry kool-aid, and expect it not to be pink (Don’t do that). It just means that for all intents and purposes it will not stain without concerted effort. In my opinion it is the best on the market.
The only drawback of epoxy grout would be the price. It is fairly expensive. When weighed against the upside, however, it is well worth it. Low maintenance demands and high durability of epoxy grout make it well worth the money.
Picking the correct grout for your application is a key part of a proper tile installation. If you choose incorrectly you could end up with a multitude of problems and headaches. Grout, chosen and installed correctly, will complete your tile installation and push it from a good tile job to a great one. Do not underestimate the power of the grout.
Hey Roger,
After applying spectralock to the walls I still notice an epoxy film on the porcelain tile. I’ve tried abrading it of according to laticrete directions without results and falling short of too much pressure scrubbing so i don’t scratch the tile. I also tried a nano abrasive and still see a film.
what about using a solvent to remove it?
Hey Dave,
You can use a gel stripper. It’s usually found in the paint department. Before you try that you should try barkeeper’s friend. It’s an abrasive powder sold in cans like the old ajax.
Why did I not think of that! I’ve got Barskeepers Friend. A couple of cans in fact. I did use it and it worked great. Thanks!!
Hi Roger,
I’m grouting porcelain faux wood plank tiles. The tiles have an intricate surface texture to them (just like aged wood planks). Sadly, this texture is a great hiding place for grout. Worse yet, the grout is not very visible until it dries, so it’s difficult to see grout hiding on the surface during application. When dry, the grout is quite visible and hard to remove, requiring a great deal of ‘quality’ time with an abrasive sponge, hard bristle brush and acid. Have any ideas how to make my grouting more productive?
BTW, I’m using 1/8″ grout line with sanded grout.
Thanks.
Hi Don,
You can use a grout release on the surface of the tile. It will seal up those crevices and it is water-soluble so it gets cleaned off as you clean your grout.
hi roger
i am just doing tile renovation , and i fix 32 * 32 imported and its very expensive tile and i give 3mm spacer space between every tiles so its look straight line and i wanted bring best grout but its become fade and dark when people walk on grout between tiles…….my tiles color is pure white and i use pure white grout, so i wanted your help that can you tell about grout which i buy, so if any one walk on grout after fixing between tiles, so my white grout never get fade and black, i just wants its alwys remain pure white……..thnx please reply me asap, i am waiting thnx
Hi Atiq,
Your best option would be an epoxy grout. I prefer Laticrete Spectralock, but any good epoxy will do what you want provided there is not direct sunlight. If there is you need one that is uv-stable, spectralock is. If you don’t use epoxy you can use regular grout and seal it really well, but it won’t be as durable as an epoxy.
My son mistakenly used unsanded grout in his bathroom. It shrunk and pulled away from the tiles. Must he completely remove the new grout or could he go over it again to fill in where the grout pulled away?
Thanks!
Susan
Hi Susan,
As long as he grouted it within the last week then he can go over it with more unsanded grout.
Many thanks Roger. He just did it 2 days ago and knowing this will certainly makes things easier.
Great website!
Susan
Hi Roger, I see you are a big promoter of Laticrete Spectralock.
But does Spectralock have any odor after it dries? I am concerned about using epoxy products in my house due to possible odors. I had a bad experience with an epoxy bonding agent one time.
Hey Ted,
Spectralock does have some odor when initially mixed. I’ve never noticed any odor the next day, so it does dissipate fully, and after it cures it has no odor whatsoever.
Hi Roger
I have a small commercial kitchen that is super busy. The tile is laid over a wood sub floor that was at one time it looks like covered by lenoleum (sp sorry) I really need to regrout the tile and replace some that are cracked from the floor flexing I am sure. It sounds like epoxy grout is the best choice for applicaition. Might you have more to add?
Hi Gerry,
If you choose epoxy you need to either ensure that the cleaning products you use are compatible or you need to use the industrial epoxy. Laticrete 2000 is industrial epoxy and would likely be your best choice. Some harsher industrial cleaners don’t play nicely with regular epoxy grout.
Roger
Can thinset being used for a shower floor be used for the grout?
Van
Hey Van,
I suppose, if you really wanted to. No reason it wouldn’t.
Hello Roger, love this site. My question, my floors and stall shower are tiled with 12 x 12 porcelain with 1/8 grout lines and now I’m ready to grout. The tile store where i got my tile is pushing a grout called Tec Power Grout so i checked it out online and on John Bridge and saw that there having issues with it. I found that Lowes has a product in stock called Tec DesignColor Grout ( sanded ). Are you familiar with this product to use as a alternative or should i just go right to a Laticrete sanded grout.
Thanks , Jack
Hey Jack,
The powergrout is having problems, I’d shy away from it for the time being. I have never heard of the designcolor, don’t know anything about it. I’m not a real big fan of Tec. They do have good products, but it seems to me that all new products they release run into issues of one issue or another. I know laticrete performs well so if it were up to me I’d just go that route.
Hi, we are installing 1″ hex in natural marble (white and gray) in a tiny powder room. It has a very shiny finish. The store recommended sanded grout, but I’m concerned about scratching he tile. We’ve used epoxy grout before–it was a complete nightmare–no open time, sticky like hardening marshmallow fluff. This was when epoxy grout was new, nearly 10 years ago. It yellows, too.
What grout would 1. not scratch 2. be reasonable to work with, and 3. come in a medium gray? It’s less than 20 square feet.
Hi Jo,
To be honest I have very rarely seen sanded grout scratch a marble. Not that it doesn’t happen, but it rarely happens. You can always test your first to ensure it won’t, but it’s unlikely. Specralock epoxy grout is completely different than the epoxies you describe – they sucked. A lot. It’s easier to work with and won’t scratch. Always test to make sure, but it’ll work well.
Our walk-in shower has porcelain tile walls and cultured marble floor. The grout around the floor between the tile and marble is crumbling of in small pieces. Any suggestions for how to repair and the best product to use?
Hi Tammy,
You need to remove all the grout and replace it with silicone. Silicone can compensate for movement, grout can not. It’ll crack every time.
Hi Roger,
Love this site and your consistently awesome advice.
Some time ago I tiled the top of a really old sideboard with some left over giallo travertine tiles (very porous) and grouted it with left over grout (don’t know what kind). The grout has a cloudy uneven effect and the tiles have a natural, non-shiney finish. This overall dusty, matte look worked well until i sanded and restained the rustic old oak sideboard which now “out-shines” the tiled top (I really didn’t intend to make the sideboard look so nice!). So my question are: Can I sharpen the colors with a rub mixture of 1/2 boiled linseed oil and 1/2 mineral spirits? Or can I use something like a semi-gloss urethane? Would I have to remove the cloudy effect of the grout first? (it might be efflorescence??) If so, how would I remove it? I mention the the linseed oil or urethane as options because that is what is currently in my husband’s shop but I don’t know what effect they may have on the tile/grout. I should add that it is only the aesthetic that I need to address because protecting the finish from wear or moisture is not an issue. It is also not an heirloom, just a very much appreciated simple vintage sideboard that has a very matte looking top and a now dapper bottom that doesn’t match as well as it did before.
Your expert advice would be appreciated
Hi SM,
It may be efflorescence, I can’t see it from here.
Scratch the surface and see if the color is darker beneath it. If it is you can use a drywall sanding sponge over the grout joints to remove it. I would not use either of the products you mentioned, I simply don’t know what they would do to the tile or grout either. Some oils (such as linseed) can cause certain travertines to look splotchy. Your best bet would be to get an enhancing sealer and use it over the tile and grout. It will bring out the colors and deepen the overall look with a consistent sheen.
Roger:
Good morning.
I am planning to re grout my marble shower stall. May I do the floor, corners and level changes with epoxy grout, and the walls and ceiling with un-sanded grout?
Thanks.
Hey Silvestre,
I suppose you could, but I wouldn’t. If you’re going to use epoxy use it everywhere, or use silicone at the changes of plane. The epoxy is not going to move so any pressure built up will be deflected into your unsanded grout – it’ll crack. If it’s epoxy in there it won’t, but regular grout will. Epoxy your floor, use unsanded on the walls if you want, and use silicone at the plane changes.
Roger
I am installing a gold metal free form mosaic on a bathroom wall and the client wants a rich colored bronze grout. The manufacturer reccomends unsanded grout only because sanded would scratch the finish on the metal. I looked into star glass but the tech department said the aggregate may scratch the metal finish also. Can you reccomend a grout with some rich coloring that is delicate enough to work with this product? As always thanks for the advice!
Hey Manny,
The tech will ALWAYS tell you that it MAY scratch the finish. They have to cover their ass. I’ve never used starglass on anything that it scratched, and I’ve used it on some delicate stuff. Always test first, of course, but that would be my recommended grout. Spectralock would likely work also.
Hello Roger,
We’re installing 500sf tumbled & filled 3/8″ travertine tile in a Versailles pattern on my own kitchen-dining floor. Tile has ‘natural’ chipped edges–grout joints will be <1/8" to maintain the pattern and b/c visually they will look larger when grouted.
Color is in the lighter yellow-beige family with a lot of range.
The factory did an uneven job of filling the stone–some faces still have recessed pores and some tiles appear overfilled with heavy grout-like film. So our thinking is when laying the tile to cull out the worst of the overfilled, then when grouting, float the entire floor. After grout fully cures, run a floor machine over the entire floor with mild abrasive or dilute phosphoric acid to get the desired end result: a soft "aged" patina. (We've done this before on tumbled marble floors and if done carefully with the right material, it works great). After finishing, we will seal–two coats with a solvent-based impregnator.
Question is, for this application, what and whose grout do you recommend? Seems that unsanded cementitious is called for, but wondering if we shd use additive–esp b/c it will be a lighter color in a kitchen–some of the inevitable unevenness of grout color will be camoflaged by the range of stone color? Whose grout (brand) do you believe offers the best performance?
I'm interested in trying poilyurethane grout, but this doesn't seem to be the application. Epoxy?–seems we'd be working against it when finishing the floor, plus the stone itself is already stain-prone. Ability to over-finish with floor machine, long-term performance against staining and durability–those are my goals.
Thanks for your feedback! –Mark
Hey Mark,
It would be unsanded provided your grout joints are less than 1/8″. I prefer Laticrete grouts whenever possible. The color consistency is the best I’ve found. After that I would use Mapei, then c-cure.
Hi Roger,
Your site really is excellent; I found you while searching for information about sanded versus unsanded grout. We have just purchased 70 sq ft of SomerTile mosaic penny tile (http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/SomerTile-12.25×12-in-Penny-3-4-in-Cobalt-Blue-Porcelain-Mosaic-Tile-Pack-of-10/4513689/product.html) for a bathroom floor. It is high gloss and the joints are 1/16″, which I’ve gathered means unsanded is best. I had never heard of epoxy grout until your site. My questions is whether you think epoxy grout could scratch a high gloss porcelain tile such as this. Also, is Laticrete, the one you recommend most, truly a “sanded” epoxy grout? Someone told me to avoid epoxy grout with sand in it, though I’m not clear on why. I’d like to go with whatever grout will hold up best, won’t stain, and won’t scratch the tiles as we’re installing; the expense of epoxy isn’t a concern, but whether it’ll scratch is. Any advice would be really appreciated! -Katie
Hi Katie,
The spectralock does have sand, but it is a very tiny aggregate so it’s really fine sand. I’ve never had it scratch anything, but you always want to test it first. An alternative may be a urethane grout, just be ready for extended cure times with the urethane.
Elfman,
Any recommendations on sanded grout? I’m doing some flooring as well tub surround and walk in shower. My tile is a natural colored porcelain (12x12s & 16x16s with 1/8″ spacing), so I’m looking at a similiar colored sanded grout. My choices are from the big box stores of stock:
Mapei vs Polyblend
I think from what I’ve read you prefer Mapei over Polyblend…was there a particular reason? Color uniformity? By the way, I’m picking up Polyblend matching 100% silicone for the wet areas along the intersecting planes if that makes any difference.
Much Thanks!
Hey SamMan,
Use mapei. Polyblend is HIGHLY inconsistent when not mixed EXACTLY right. More people have more problems with it than any other grout. Polyblend silicone is simply 100% colored silicone with custom’s label on it – as is every other colored silicone. It will work fine with mapei grouts.
Im installing a silostone metallic free form mosaic on a bathroom wall. The separation is in some areas up to 3/8″. The manufacturer says unsanded grout must be used because sanded grout will scratch the smooth metallic finish. Any tips you can reccommend? Thanks!
Hey Manny,
Yeah, ask them what brand, specifically, you should use for 3/8″ grout lines which will not shrink. If that is their recommendation then they should be able to point you in the right direction. If it were me I would use StarQuartz or Starglass grout by bostik. It’s specifically formulated for use with glass and metal tile.
Ok, I have a (probably) dumb question. I’ve been reading up on the SpectraLOCK grout installation and features, and even here you say it is waterproof…or as waterproof as any of these products can be. So I think epoxy grout is the way to go even though it is more expensive. So my question, which is really my husband’s question, but I thought I’d check with the expert (you): do you need to seal epoxy grout? I know your site says that sealing grout will make it easier to clean, so I just want to make sure either way, since my husband is thinking just by it’s nature, and epoxy wouldn’t need to be sealed. Thanks a million!
Sorry, me again! I know this isn’t the right page for this question, but I thought I’d just piggy back on my earlier question so as not to pester you too much.
So, we are about to start preparing and tiling our shower surround, now that the plumbing is complete, but are running into a roadblock when it comes to the vapor barrier, lining up the hardibacker with the existing drywall and a gap between one side of the tub and the studs. I’ve got pictures to hopefully illustrate the issue.
We were planning to do a 4 mil vapor barrier to the ceiling, with 1/2 inch hardiebacker on top of that, and of course, laying the vapor barrier in over the edge of the tub so it will drain properly, 4″ x 8″ porcelain tile, sealed with silicon at the base except for where the weep holes will go.
That plan should work on two of the three sides of the shower surround, however we have a gap on the third side of around 5/8ths between the tub edge and the studs. And 1/2 inch drywall along the rest of that wall. I am concerned that if I do manage to get the vapor barrier to overlap the edge of the tub for proper drainage, possibly by attaching it directly to the edge of the tub with silicon, there still isn’t going to be enough of the barrier left after I trim it down so it isn’t visible under the tile.
Ideally I’d use ~1/4″ furring strips on the studs so the vapor barrier and hardiebacker would overlap the edge of the tub, but that would mean the backer and existing drywall along that wall wouldn’t be flush, which isn’t going to work. Not to mention that even if I was able to deal with a quite short vapor barrier overhang with my 1/2″ hardiebacker mounted directly on the studs with no furring strips (the option that allows the backer and drywall to be flush with each other), my tile is still going to be up on the edge of the tub and look funny.
Do I have any options here? You know, short of removing the drywall from the entire wall of the bathroom so I can bump out everything a 1/4″ so my hardiebacker will overlap my tub on this one side AND the backer and drywall will be flush with each other?
I’ve included some photos of the bathroom, specifically where the gap is between the tub and the studs, and simulated 1/2″ hardiebacker with a 1/2″ piece of wood, just to illustrate the gaps that are still going to be an issue after the hardiebacker is installed on the studs.
Further away view of the tub: http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc164/mbhinch/IMG_1176.jpg
The problematic gap: http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc164/mbhinch/IMG_1177.jpg
Wood plank standing in for 1/2″ backer: http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc164/mbhinch/IMG_1184.jpg
With the tile on top of the 1/2″ “backer”: http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc164/mbhinch/IMG_1186.jpg
Additional angles: http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc164/mbhinch/IMG_1189.jpg and http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc164/mbhinch/IMG_1195.jpg
Thanks in advance! The next time I go to Colorado, I’m gonna owe you a beer!
Hi Morgan,
Can you push your tub to the right 1/4″? That would likely solve the problem. You could then shim the wet wall over the tub and place smaller shims as it runs out into the bathroom to meet drywall (which isn’t yet installed).
If not you can place a horizontal piece of wood between the end of the tub and the studs (MAKE SURE it’s sloped toward the tub to drain) then run your barrier down the wall studs, over the wood and silicone it to the very edge of the tub. Cut it long and leave it overhanging onto the tub. Install your tile then once that’s cured take a razor knife and cut off the excess plastic.
You could also shim the wall so it’s not quite square. In other words 1/4″ at the corner, 1/8″ at the edge of the tub and you should be able to still meet the drywall which looks to be about 4-6 inches from the tub. You should still be able to get the barrier siliconed to the edge that way.
Hi Morgan,
Nope, no need to seal epoxy. One of the benefits of epoxy is that it is already stainproof. Sealing grout, by the way, has absolutely nothing to do with making it waterproof – at all. It only assists in preventing stains. Sealer doesn’t waterproof anything.
I did it, the old lady installed the tile in the entry way. I’ve walked on it after it dried and it isn’t cracking or breaking. Admitedly, after 3 and a half hours, that last tile might not have received the same attention as the first tile. But I very carefully cleaned out all the grout lines before the thinset dried with a chop stick. Perfect 1/8 inch size and I was never going to eat with them. Now the grout. I’ve read all your info, but just want to verify. I live in the mountains of Colorado and we get some ice and snow pack at the entry way. Ice dam on the roof drips down in front of the door. I actually had to leave the storm door open this last winter so I could get in the house. I know that’s another problem to fix. So with that in mind, what is your best advice for my situation on silicone, epoxy grout, etc.
Hi Janet,
I live in Fort Collins – I know exactly what you deal with.
Epoxy grout would be ideal for your installation. It is temperature stable and best of all it’s stain proof. If you have a wooden threshold at the doorway make sure you use silicone between it and the tile rather than epoxy. Epoxy has absolutely no give.
Roger, I’m glad I found your site – lots of great advice & insights. I’m redoing a small bathroom and am almost ready to install the tub and then backer board. I have 2 questions: 1) is it okay to lay backer board under the tub? If I do, it actually results in less cuts/waste, although I,ll have labor of installing it. The tub is acrylic with a styofoam base. 2) should I redgard the floor (in addition to the tub surround walls)…or is this ill-advised? I’m okay if it’s ‘overkill’ – I like things rock solid and watertight….but don’t want to jeopardize floor tile installation. Thanks!
Hi Steve,
1. Yes, you can install the backer beneath the tub.
2. Yes, you can redgard it. No reason to, but it won’t hurt anything.
Hi Roger,
What is your recommendation on which cement based grout below would be my best choice for 3/16″ joints on porcelain tiles (floor & wall in bathroom/shower area). I wanted to do SpectraLock but don’t think I have the gonads/money to do it. I have 2 bathrooms totaling about 330sqft. Here are my choices available locally:
1) Mapei Keracolor
2) Mapei Keracolor with Mapei Grout Maximizer
3) Mapei Ultracolor Plus
4) Laticrete 1500
5) Laticrte 1500 with Laticrete 1776 Grout Enhancer
Thanks,
Nick
Hey Nick,
Laticrete with the 1776 would be my choice, regular laticrete is also very good. The ultracolor plus is a bit difficult to work with and so is the keracolor with the maximizer. Keracolor is a good grout by itself.
All your choices are very good grouts, it’s really a matter of which is easier to work with. Either with the additive is going to be a bit more difficult than the grout by itself, but will be much easier to maintain once cured. Laticrete with additive is easier than keracolor with additive or ultracolor by itself. (Ultracolor is weird – it works strangely to me.)
Thanks Roger. How does Laticrete’s Permacolor compare to this list of grouts? I thought the local Lowe’s carries the Laticrete 1500, but it looks like it is a special order along with the Mapei Ultracolor Plus, which I do not think I have time to wait for. There is a local distributor that does carry the Laticrete Permacolor that I don’t have to wait for. I also found a local place that carries TEC products. Not sure which ones they carry, but looks like there non-expoxy grouts are Power Grout Ultimate, AccuColor XT, AccuColor or AccuColor with Acrylic Grout Additive. Let me know what you think about the Permacolor and the TEC options.
Permacolor is a very good grout and fairly easy to work with. I would go with that. If you choose tec use the accucolor XT. It’s a bit difficult to work with, but the other choices are either very difficult (relatively) or have problems yet to be worked out (power grout).
Roger – Thanks for answering my question somewhere else re Keracolor. When you say that Ultracolor works strange for you, I’m just wondering how? Here in Chicagoland our big better tile distributor is Mid America Tile. They sell mostly to the pros. They’re the ones that sell that Grout Once I asked you about. Here’s MY concern with the Keri. We used it for the floor already and to me the grout looks a bit blotchy and it soaks the water up and changes color. I saw you answered that somewhere else the water but, I think it soaks in too much. We went bold and used Ditra over the underlayment but I really don’t want to find out if its all its cracked up to be. This small bathroom Master is now going into the 18 month and I am so ready for this project to be done. The tile is now up in the tub surround and ceiling and we are ready for grout. I know I’m not going to like what you say but should we ditch the Keracolor (eat probably $150) or plow ahead? Thanks
It fires off a bit too quickly for me. That means it begins to become stiff and ‘rolls’ around the face of the tile rather than spreading.
The situation you’ve described with the blotchiness of wet grout is exactly why I don’t use grout admixes. I’ve seen that a lot where these products were used. I don’t know if yours is due to an admix or the grout itself, I haven’t used that particular grout a lot so I don’t know what, if any, problems are associated with. I don’t see any problem using the keracolor – a lot of guys do and like it, but I wouldn’t use the admix with it. Plow ahead with the keracolor and just mix it with water.
My tiler agrees with you that epoxy grouts are the best. His favorite brand is Mapei’s Kerapoxy. However, the floor tile is Walker Zanger’s Tribeca hex in ‘classic white’ marble (a white venatino Cararra), and the epoxy’s instructions say “do not use for grouting white or translucent marble.” He prepared samples with Kerapoxy in both warm gray (almost white) and silver (medium gray). While I prefer the contrast of the silver grout (why buy a small mosaic if the grout color makes the lines disappear?), the marble definitely appears to have been darkened by the darker grout and not just on the edges as in Michele’s question–the entire hex is darker.
In your response to Michele’s question, you say that the “picture framing” discoloration will dissipate over time but you then say “and sometimes it doesn’t happen at all.” By that do you mean the picture framing sometimes doesn’t happen or that the dissipation sometimes doesn’t happen? Also, have you ever experienced the type of overall darkening I describe and if you have, is it likely to dissipate? Finally, if you think I should not use an epoxy grout, which urethane one do you recommend? Extended curing times are not a problem.
Thanks,
Howard
Hi Howard,
Sometimes the framing happens, sometimes it doesn’t. Sometimes it will dissipate, sometimes it won’t. Two big reasons your entire hex is darker is that the hex tiles are smaller so the framing doesn’t need to absorb much into the stone to make the entire thing look darker, and using the darker grout will make smaller marble mosaics look darker.
For urethane I prefer Quartzlock 2. Keep in mind, however, that the chemical liquids in urethane can do the same thing – not as often, but be sure to test that as well should you choose that route.
Thanks for your advice Roger. We ended up sticking with Mapei Kerapoxy in silver. The grout did seem to darken the marble’s entire surface a tiny bit but it still looks very nice.
Howard
Roger, great site–thank you. We just had 12×12 Greecian marble floor put in our bathroom. I was about go buy some Laticrete Spectralock–but the Laticrete site says this grout is sanded. I thought sanded grout is a no-no when using marble or granite.
Is there a non-sanded epoxy grout you would recommend?
Or do we even need to bother with epoxy? Our gaps between the marble tiles are only 1/16. (We made the grout lines this small because we got sick of seeing stained [sanded] grout in out old bathroom.) I don’t foresee much water getting through whatever grout we put in.
Thanks for your advice!
Hi John,
The spectralock is sanded, but not in the same ‘sanded’ sense that cementitious grout is. While there is a very small chance that it may scratch your marble, it’s unlikely. I’ve never installed a marble that it would scratch yet. Specralock contains colored ‘sand’ which is actually the part C powder – and it’s much closer to the powder than it is to sand. Always test first, of course, but you should be fine.
Thanks, Roger. I went ahead and bought some non-sanded grout at HD. I figured the epoxy stuff might hurt the marble. OTOH, if we decide to leave the marble on top of the OmniGrip, then maybe using epoxy grout (presumably waterproof) would be a way to keep from having to rip out the marble (and the wall tile in the bath), scraping off all the OmniGrip, and starting over with plain thinset.
Hi Roger. Great site!
So we have purchased 12×12 polished calacatta gold marble for our bathroom floor and Laticrete SpectraLOCK Pro Epoxy in white. While on the Spectralock website I noticed Spectralock’s FAQs state the epoxy is safe for marble but that white marble may soak up the grout through the sides of the tile where it’s not polished and create a ‘picture frame’ (a darkening or discoloration of the stone edges) effect. Have you ever experienced this when using epoxy with white marbles? Spectralock suggests testing the marble first, which I guess we could do by mixing up a very small batch first and letting it cure.
Do you think first sealing the tile top and sides, would help or is sealing the sides of the tile a bad idea? Concerned with how well the grout would bond to the tile if we seal the sides. Or is sealing the tile really not going to do anything in regards to the marble absorbing the epoxy.
Thanks!
Hey Michele,
Yes, I have experienced it. It also will dissipate over time – the problem is that this sometimes takes months to happen. And sometimes it doesn’t happen at all. So yes, definitely test it first.
You do not want to seal the sided. While it would likely eliminate the absorption of the epoxy liquids – that’s what the grout bonds to. It may not last. I would say test it and if it does leach into the marble then switch to a regular cementitious grout with a good sealer (miracle sealant’s 511 impregnator) or, better yet, use a urethane grout. They do require a longer cure time (up to seven days) but they are stain-proof as well. Maybe not against cherry kool-aid (haven’t tested that yet – it’s on the list), but they are stain-proof as well. No problems (of which I am aware) with marble and urethane grouts.
I can’t seem to find a definative answer(that was a big word eh?) I am installing 2″ hex bianco carrera marble tiles on my bathroom and shower floor with a honed finish,. What process should I use as well as what grout? I am wanting a gray groutline. Should I use gray thinset to set the tile, or will it discolor the marble? Will gray grout discolor the marble? I assume I need to seal the marble before grouting, yes? Do I need to worry about getting sealer in the grout line and the grout not adhering to the tile? What type of grout? I know you like Spectra lock epoxy, but I’ve read on other places to use a non-staining portland cement for grout and “pour” it on, let it set for 10 minutes then rub some dry portland on with a burlap rag??? Is that BS or is there some truth to that? What should I seal the entire thing with after the grouting is complete? Finally, did I make a mistake by choosing honed marble for my bathroom and shower floors??
Hey Skeeter,
Don’t quite understand what you mean by ‘what process’? Nearly any process for normal floor or shower floor tile will work fine with that marble. The best, in my opinion, being mudset, after that a proper membrane such as ditra for the floor and kerdi for the shower floor, with the marble directly bonded to it. You do want to ensure that on your bathroom floor you have a very flat substrate before setting the tile, either with mudset, flattening out the ditra or an slc, smaller marble mosaics such as those will show every inconsistency and you can’t really build up too much under smaller tile.
Epoxy liquids will leach into some lighter marbles, some it won’t. You’ll need to test yours to know for sure. Water from regular cementitious grout may leach into it, but it will dissipate over time (sometimes weeks, but it does dissipate). If you seal the surface of the stone (always a good idea with honed stone and darker grout) then you don’t need to worry about getting some sealer between the tile. It would be difficult to get enough in there to negatively affect the bond. Do not seal the sides of the tile.
Portland grout with dry portland (or sawdust – really) is a very old-school method of grouting with straight portland – and it works very well. There is a whole lot of truth to that time tested and proven method. No BS there.
Honed marble will be fine for your bathroom. It’s just a matter of the grouting complications and maintenance. I prefer miracle sealant’s porous plus sealer for stone like yours.
Ok. Sorry I was vague with the question. I already have Hardiebacker down on the floor and my sloped mudbed in the shower. I will be using Kerdi to line the entire shower. My question is in the actual installation of the 2″ hex marble tiles.
Gray or white thinset, modified or unmodified? I want to use gray grout so I was thinking using gray thinset, but didn’t know if I would get bleedthrough. If it matters, I purchased Laticrete 317 per your request for the shower. Can I just use that for the bathroom floor as well or should I use a modified thinset? What size trowel should I use for 2″ hex marble? They are mosaic and 3/8″ thick.
I think you answered my grouting question. I have CEG Lite grout. (I know, its not Spectralock, but it’s what the big box had). Unless you hate it, I will use that and do a test on the marble. So…..I should seal with the 511 sealant prior to mortaring, correct? Would you recommend multiple coats of sealer prior to grout?
You want white thinset, either modified or the 317 – either one is fine. Yes, you can use the 317 for the bathroom floor as well. Use the same trowel you use for the rest of the tile. Once you comb it onto the shower floor take your trowel and flip it over to the flat side and knock down the ridges so you have a solid, flat layer of thinset for your mosaics. Lay them in there and pound them down with your grout float. (Not ‘pound’ as in take a full swing at them, just to embed them into the thinset).
CEG lite is fine. Seal with 511 before grouting. Multiple coats may or may not be necessary depending on your tile – read the sealer instructions.