There are three basic types of grout available for your tile installation. They are:
- Non-Sanded (also known as Unsanded)
- Sanded
- Epoxy
Choosing the correct grout for your particular installation will not only complete the job correctly, it will also cut down on maintenance. Properly installed and sealed grout will last for the life of your tile. So which to use and when?
Non-Sanded (or Unsanded) Grout
Unsanded grout is made specifically for grout lines smaller than 1/8 inch wide. This is a general rule. I use unsanded grout only in tile with grout lines smaller than 1/16″. Unsanded grout (all grout to different degrees) will shrink as it cures. The reason for only using it in smaller grout lines is the wider the grout lines, the more grout must be used to fill them. The more grout you have, the more it will shrink. If you try to fill grout lines that are too large the grout will shrink enough to pull away from the sides of the tile.
Unsanded grout is easier to work with, especially on vertical surfaces such as a shower wall, because it is “stickier” than the sanded variety. You can spread it onto the wall and it will stick there while you force it into the grout lines. It is also much easier on the hands than sanded. Although it is easier to work with, you need to make sure that the application for which you are using it is correct.
Sanded Grout
Sanded Grout is used for any size grout lines 1/8″ and wider. Although the specifications state unsanded grout be used in grout lines that are exactly 1/8″, you really should use sanded for them. It will ensure proper adhesion to your tile and guard against too much shrinkage. No, not Seinfeld shrinkage, grout shrinkage.
Sanded grout has fine sand added to it. This prevents the grout from shrinking too much as it cures. That’s why it is used for larger grout lines and should be used for the majority of tile installations.
If you have a polished stone such as granite, marble, limestone, and some polished travertine, you should be careful about using sanded grout. While sanded may be the correct choice for the size of grout lines, it may not be the best choice. Depending upon the polish of the stone the sand in the grout may actually scratch it. If you decide to use sanded make sure you test it in an inconspicuous area first to ensure it will not scratch your finish. Or use epoxy which would be a better choice anyway.
Epoxy Grout
Epoxy grout is the top of the line and best choice for any tile application. It can be substituted for sanded or unsanded grout. It is more sturdy than both as well as being waterproof and stain resistant.
Epoxy is a two or three part chemical consisting of the base and the activator. With some brands the color is an additional part that must be added. Once the parts are mixed a chemical reaction begins. From that point, depending on the brand of epoxy, you have only a limited amount of time to get everything grouted before the grout becomes stiff enough to be unworkable. When it reaches that point, if you do not have everything grouted you are SOL.
To help slow the cure time you can mix your epoxy then put half of it in the freezer. The cold air will slow the chemical reaction and lengthen the working time. You can then work with the other half until it is all used. Clean it up, wipe everything down, then grab the second half out of the freezer and finish up. When you first pull it out of the freezer it will be, well, frozen. It thaws quickly, though, so should be workable within a few minutes. This essentially doubles the working time of your grout and ensures you don’t have to rush through it.
Since most epoxy grouts do not contain sand (or at least not in the classic sense of sand) it will normally not scratch your tile. If you have highly polished granite or marble that’s important. Be sure to test first anyway!
Different brands of epoxy have different working times as well as some being more difficult to work with than others. The brand with which I have had the most luck and the only brand I ever use is SpectraLOCK from Laticrete. It has a longer working time than any other epoxy grout (at least any I’ve ever used) and is virtually stain proof. Please don’t take that to mean the you can grout a jacuzzi with it, fill it with cherry kool-aid, and expect it not to be pink (Don’t do that). It just means that for all intents and purposes it will not stain without concerted effort. In my opinion it is the best on the market.
The only drawback of epoxy grout would be the price. It is fairly expensive. When weighed against the upside, however, it is well worth it. Low maintenance demands and high durability of epoxy grout make it well worth the money.
Picking the correct grout for your application is a key part of a proper tile installation. If you choose incorrectly you could end up with a multitude of problems and headaches. Grout, chosen and installed correctly, will complete your tile installation and push it from a good tile job to a great one. Do not underestimate the power of the grout.
I am going to install a 12″ band of “chiclet” size mosaics in a band inset into white porcelain tiles around a shower & tub. Some of the chiclets are glass. The SpectraLOCK instructions warn against possible scratching using SpectraLOCK on glass, yet their Spectra-Loc brochure features an installation with a mosaic including what appears to be glass.
What do you think?
Hey Sam,
I’ve used specrtalock on hundreds and hundreds of feet of different types of glass. Haven’t found any glass yet that it scratches. Always test it first to make sure – but it should be fine.
Hey Derek,
It depends on the end result you’re looking for. If you want grout that is easily maintained then yes, it is your best bet. You need pay careful attention to those grout lines as you grout, though, and make sure you get them completely full. It’s easy to miss some with grout lines that small.
Sounds good. Thanks for your quick reply. I am looking for the best end result. I am willing to sacrifice my time to do the job correctly and have less worries later. With that said, in my situation, what type of grout would you use for this application?
I always prefer Spectralock epoxy grout. I use it wherever I can. Great stuff.
Hi Roger;
I have just completed wll tiles on my owder room. I do have less than 1/8″ grout lines and grouted with sanded grout. It looks fine. I have noticed that what I did was wrong, after reading all of the information on your page. What do I have to do now? Remove all the grout and re grout with nonsanded grout? Can I keep them and apply a good seal on top of them?
Thank you and I would appreciate your reply very much.
Chandi
Hi Chandi,
Your grout is fine. I use sanded in 1/16″ grout lines all the time. The problem with using sanded in smaller grout lines is getting the grout into the lines – if you’ve done that you’re just fine.
Wow awesome information on here. So here’s the question I have, I have installed mosaic tiles on my shower walls and thanks to Dal Tile many of the spacings from the sheets are about zero between the mosaics. I am proposing to use non sanded grout as I dont want to take the time to file each of the 20-30 mosaics that dont have the normal 1/16″. I also have 1/8 and slightly larger grout lines in my shower. Wont it look funny if I use sanded and non sanded in the same area? Should I file all the grout lines so everything is 1/16″. Thanks for your help.
Hey John,
I wouldn’t file anything. I would take the mosaics back and have them give you mosaics with consistent (or nearly so) grout lines. Tile mosaics with spacing like that, unless part of the pattern, is unacceptable and does not need to be accepted by the consumer. Dal tile knows that and will not give you any problems with exchanging them.
As to your question, yes, it may look funny to have sanded and unsanded, or it may not. It depends on the brand and consistency of the grout. With those grout lines unsanded is fine.
I’ve discovered that water is dripping down to the floor below. The plumber examined the piping and said they were OK. THat probably the water was leaking through the floor tiles. Called a contractor and told me the pan was probably the reason. He said That the floor would need to be replaced. It was costly to do! Is there a way of waterproofing the floor without replacing the pan?
I don’t know what to do. Can you help?
John
Hi John,
There is no product nor method available to waterproof a shower floor once tile is installed upon it. If there is a leak in your waterproof liner then it will need to be removed and replaced and your shower floor rebuilt. Water, by the way, will always ‘leak’ through floor tiles – they are not waterproof. A pvc or cpe liner is placed beneath deck mud in your shower floor beneath the tile – that is what is waterproof.
If you are mildly handy you can replace the floor yourself – I help people do that daily on my site. If you think that’s an option you can begin here: How to create a shower floor
I’ve finally finished tiling and grouting my shower, floor, and tub surround. The tile is porcelain. Do I need to seal the grout on all surfaces including the shower? If so, what type of sealer?
Hi Carolyn,
You don’t have to, but it helps tremendously with the cleaning aspect of your tile and grout. I prefer Miracle Sealant’s 511 Impregnator.
Good afternoon,
Hope you are having a great and restful weekend. And Happy Father’s day !
I am going to go with the Epoxy grout you recommend on your site. My question to you is do I need to seal it afterwards?
Thank you,
Anita
Hi Anita,
Thanks! If you use epoxy grout you do not need to seal it. Sealer is built-in.
This is great stuff – Thank you. I installed tile on a countertop. I used 1/4 spacers and a sanded grout. The shrinkage of the grout bothers me a bit. Before I seal the grout, can I apply a non-sanded to 1) fill in the grout lines (more level with the tile) 2) make the grout lines smoother, with the hope that the counter will be a bit easier to clean.
Thank you for al our advise. I is very helpful.
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
Wow – 1/4″? That’s huge – especially on a countertop. With that large of a grout line you won’t be able to get a very level top to your grout line, it’s gonna dip some. Non-sanded added over it will do no good, and likely won’t last. It is not necessarily the shrinkage in the grout – sand in sanded grout prevents shrinking. It’s due to the size of your grout lines.
About the only thing you can do is remove what you currently have to 2/3 the depth of the tile and regrout with your grout mixed fairly stiff. The more water in the mix the more it’s going to shrink. Take time with it and get the grout as level as you can while you grout. There isn’t much you can do after the fact. Sorry.
THank you. The 1/4 is because of the type of tile ( got it for $1/sq ft from a friend with a tile business). I installed it in my camp, (small 24 in wide counter). Given they type of tile etc……, the 1/4 looks great. After I sent you the note, I read about applying grout over grout. The lines are really pretty good, and my project manager ( wife) is happy, so I am happy. Love your information – have a great day.
Hey – if the wife is happy everything’s good!
Hello Roger,
What a wonderful chat room!
I’m really sorry did not find it before starting my ‘project’.
So, it a first time I’m doing it. Went to Homedepot, bought, by an advise of bystander, Polyblend non-sanded grout to re-grout bathtub wall (i have polished tile, the shiny one). Now, all of the gaps are, probably, no more than 1/8″, but the line between the tile and bathtub itself in some places is 1/2″. At the very beginning I precisely followed the instruction on how to mix the powder with water, but the mix was really stiff and did not spread easily along the tile, rather it was putty-like mass that I had to push in between the tiles with my finger. NOt a fast job! Anyway, I was afraid to add any water and did all the work using only my hands. The same guy in the store told me to grout wide spaces twice, so the mix won’t crack. So, I did grouting ones 2 days ago and, just about to do it second time, when I decided to look online and … read that it is not a good idea to put second layer of grout, since it won’t adhere to the first one. Is it true? What should I do now? Another question: after 2 days of drying the grout changes color if I moist it. is it normal? Can I use epoxy grout on the top of first layer for the better seal? Or it should be completely stripped (don’t think I have strength for that). In general, what consistency should that mix be, could I added a little more water to ease my work? And the last question- what is the story of all these sealants that are sold in the store and we can either add them into the mix or use it 72 hours after the mix dried?
Hope I did not screwed up much and its easy to finish this job ( I just hate it by now!)
Thank you so very much,
Sofia
Hi Sofia,
Non-sanded grout shrinks – it doesn’t ‘crack’ as you’ve been told. Some guys will go over the first layer of grout with a skim-coat to ensure all the areas are fully packed – it is not required. If, after two days, you see any places where the grout is pulling away from the tile you can go over it with more grout (you can mix the second batch with more water). You can not use epoxy grout over the non-sanded. There is no reason to need a better seal provided your shower is properly waterproofed – which has nothing to do with grout.
The consistency of non-sanded should be about like peanut butter (the creamy, not the chunky). The sealants of which you speak are to assist with cleaning. It allows more time for you to clean off substances before it is soaked into the grout – it seals stains out.
Grout will change color or tones when wet. Grout is a cement-based product – it soaks up water. Think about your driveway when it rains, it gets darker (changes color), same thing. It’s completely normal.
Dear Roger,
Thank you for your advice! I did finish the job (took longer than expected :)) ) and so far (fingers crossed!) no complains from downstairs.
I just want to thank you for those very valuable consultations and wishing you all the best things in life!
Hi Roger,
I read your article on sanded, unsanded and epoxy grout but you didn’t mention anything about urethane grout. I am remodeling my kitchen and will be putting down a hydronic floor (radiant floor with water instead of electricity). I have not seen any posting anywhere comparing the epoxy grout and the urethane grout. It seems that the urethane grout is easier to use (longer curing time?). In addition to the installation differences, how do each of them perform under traffic, stains – durability?.
Thanks for your help and advice.
Tammy
Hi Tammy,
That’s a good question.
I did not mention urethanes because I wrote that over two years ago – urethane grout technology at that time was newer and was, in my opinion, untested and some products were having serious problems. Since then the technology has increased greatly and the urethanes are much better grouts. As far as stain resistance it is comparable to epoxies. Most are rated for medium (non-commercial) foot traffic and seem to hold up very well in residential applications. It is easier to use and does have a longer curing time, as you’ve stated.
Durability? Well, the jury’s still out on that one. Long-term durability of a product requires long-term real world application. It’s good for at least four years or so, in another year it’ll be good for about five years or so.
They seem to work as described with no major problems to speak of, it’s a good product.
Hi there,
I’m 90% done laying my first tile floor… 20×20 porcelain over roughly 500 square feet. It’s been a very educational experience so far. I’m ready to start grouting tomorrow, but I’m hesitant because I’m not sure I chose the right products. I bought unsanded grout for my floor because my grout lines are 1/16″ and that’s what fit in the product description (as well as your post).
My dad is the one teaching me most of this stuff and recommends two things that I’m unsure of. First, he said sanded grout is needed since its a floor and unsanded is too soft long term. He said that sanded will fit in 1/16″ just fine and that he has used it before. Second, he recommends damp curing the grout by spraying it with water over the course of two or three days. I can’t find this recommendation anywhere else… I see a lot of folks do it, but manufacturers tend to say it isn’t necessary?
My dad has done some beautiful tile installations that lasted years and years, I’m just not sure he has the most up to date info for mine. Can you help me please? I can’t afford the epoxy or I would have bought that already. Thanks for your time, I appreciate it!
Forrest
Hey Forrest,
Your dad is old-school.
I am too, I just can’t find people willing to pay for it.
Newer unsanded grouts are more than sturdy enough long-term – so they can be used on a floor. Sanded grout, however, is a better option because it is more durable against abrasion (foot traffic). Although unsanded is fine, sanded is better. It will fit fine in 1/16″ lines – I can’t remember the last time I used unsanded, and I use 1/16″ grout lines every day. Sanded grout also does not have the shrinkage issues that unsanded may. If it were up to me I would exchange the unsanded for sanded.
You haven’t heard about damp curing because grout companies now cater and market to the very, very impatient DIY crowd. It is absolutely the best way to cure your grout, as well as any cement-based product. Cement cures through hydration, not evaporation. Cement particles grow crystals when exposed to water, these crystals are like little microscopic fingers which interlock. The longer the particles are exposed to water the higher the number and longer these crystals grow. This strengthens your grout. The longer you can keep it damp (exposed to water) the stronger your grout will be. It is also best to mist it every four hours or so and cover it with plastic. That’ll give you nearly bulletproof grout and it will be a consistent color, although that isn’t much of a concern anymore (unless it’s polyblend).
Listen to your dad – he knows what he’s talking about!
Hi Roger….
Just the guy I need to talk to! We have 600sq of porcelin tile (10 years old and in pristine shape) with sanded grout. The grout is constantly dirty dispite my cleaning. Once I clean the floor, I rinse with clean water at least twice but still the dirty residue builds up in the grout. Of course I chose a “canvas” grout color to go with the travertine look floor. So, this weekend I have used the “degrouting” tool and have taken all of the grout down to at least half way. Some areas are completely gone. Have I taken it down enough? Now, my decision is which type of grout should be installed. I’m leaning toward the epoxy based on your recommendation. I want to reapply whatever is going to be the least porous. My gout lines are 1/16, tiny…. Will the expoxy still collect the residue like sanded and unsanded? Of course, I’m a homeowner, not a professional!
We have 3 dogs and a kitty and my floors are vacuumed and steamed at least every other day.
HELP, I’M SO TIRED OF DIRTY GROUT!
Hi Happy (if that is your real name…
),
The grout lines need to be taken down to at least 2/3 the depth of the tile. Grout bonds to the sides of the tile, not the substrate beneath it. If you don’t have at least 2/3 of the side of the tile for it to bond to it may not be stable enough to last.
Epoxy would be your best bet. While the grout lines will still ‘collect the residue’ due to the grout lines normally being a bit lower than the face of the tile, any residue will not stick to nor stain the grout. Read through this and it will show you how stainproof this stuff really is: Spectralock vs. koolaid
Hi, Roger:
I’m kinda freaking out. I bought ceramic tiles 10×16 for my shower walls & Laticrete PermaColor cement grout unsanded for 1/16″ grout line. The tile guy says that he does the wall tiles with NO grout line at all, he puts them against each other. I thought you could only do that to rectified or marble tile which mine is not. He also said I needed sanded grout for the shower floor—those are 2×2 mosaics with 1/4″ separation. Does this guy know what he’s talking about?
Hi Mimi,
He partly knows what he’s talking about. You do need sanded grout on the floor tile. As far as butting tile – you can’t even do that with rectified marble. Read through this and it will explain why: Grout lines in tile If you are paying him to install your tile tell him to install it the way you want it installed or you’ll find someone who will. It’s that simple.
Thanks, Roger, you really cleared that up for me.
Hi Roger,
I finished up an all tile shower in my bathroom about 1.5 years ago and used Custom Building Products Polyblend Sanded Grout for the entire shower. There is one part of the shower floor that seems to have gotten mold or mildew going in it but it doesn’t seem to be any where else. Could this have just been b/c that section of the floor didn’t get sealed as well as the rest? I’m just curious if I used the wrong type of grout for the shower. I didn’t add any latex, just water when mixing the grout.
Do you have any tricks for cleaning this grout? I’ve tried Oxiclean and it didn’t work. I’m afraid the only option is going to be removing the mildewed areas and regrouting.
Thanks for your input!
Nick
Hey Nick,
Polyblend, while my LEAST favorite grout, is perfectly fine for showers. It also contains powdered polymers which activated when you added water. No need for the latex additive. Is your floor draining correctly and completely? No puddles forming or remaining in that area after you shower? Check closely and see if there are any micro-cracks between the tile and grout in that area. Your floor may be retaining water either in these cracks or beneath the surface of the tile. You can get the grout clean with sulfamic acid – it’s sold in crystal form at home depot in the tile section. READ THE DIRECTIONS – AND FOLLOW THEM! That part is important! That’s why I yelled it.
How do you feel about using Grout Boost with the Mapei Grout?
I don’t like grout boost. The guys that use it love it, with every grout. I just don’t like it. It makes my grout feel weird – and I’m anal like that.
Hey Roger,
Still working on this bathroom. I used Durock Tile Membrane in the shower, Detra on the floor. The Durock website says to use Latex modified (ANSI 118.7) grout, the Detra website says to use ANSI 118.6. I found the grout coler I want in the ANSI 118.6 (Polyblend Sanded), but haven’t found ANSI 118.7. Because I really don’t understand the difference, I was hoping you could fill me in. Thanks for your help.
Hey Scott,
With very, very few exceptions (durock and ditra NOT being one) the type of grout you use has nothing at all to do with the substrate or membrane you’ve used. You can use any type of grout you want in your situation – the 118.6 will be just fine.
For future reference, and in case this will confuse anyone, the 118.6 is the ANSI standard for regular cementious grout. The 118.7 is the standard for polymer modified cementious grout. It is currently a gray area – most grouts now contain some sort of powdered polymer or modification even if they may not be classified technically (on the bag) as a 118.7 grout.
Thanks for the clarification.
HI Roger… I am currently laying a groutable vinyl stick down tile by Trafficmaster. The grout that is recommended by HD is a non-sand urethane grout. I have used it, and so far it is fine. My issue is that the new tile does not have a decent colored co-ordinating grout in this product. I have found an epoxy grout by the same company that would work. Do you know if there are issues with going this route with vinyl. The epoxy and the tile color are very close, so staining shouldnt be a big issue. Tile is going in the front entry and in a bathroom
Thanks
Hey Gilliam,
I have no idea of the ramifications, if any, of using epoxy grout on the vinyl. I do know that if there is a paper backing on the vinyl the liquid will leech into it and may stain it. I don’t know if you have that or not. I would call both the vinyl and grout manufacturer and ask them.
Thanks Roger… I will see what I can find out…:)
hello roger:)
first i wanted to thank you for having such an informative and entertaining website:) it is absolutely wonderful to know that there is someone out there willing to help those of us that are trying to do things ourselves;) emphasis on trying:)
there is so much information out there in regards to tiling that i am throughly confused .. which is bad because we are half-way through a very slow moving project:) i was wondering if you could give your input as well as answer a few questions before we go any further .. lend your expertise:)
we are absolutely not professionals of any sort. we like to rip things apart in our house and then try to put them back together:) we learn as we go .. that being said .. we have done a tile backsplash, countertop, floor, and shower surround .. learning from our mistakes each time. we sold that house a few years back; forgot everything we learned and are now attempting to screw up this one:) haha.
i’ll start with where we are at now: we have a rather small bathroom 7 x 11 foot. we tore out a fiberglass bathtub surround and are replacing it with a single stall shower. we ripped up the old vinyl floor, replaced some plywood that was water damaged, 3 layers of plywood total; installed ditra with modified mortar onto the plywood, and recently placed 12 x 24 porcelain tile with unmodified mortar on top of the ditra. we also used the kerdi shower system and tray.
that being said.. here starts my concerns;) concern #1. was told by the tile guy: use modified mortar under the ditra onto the plywood subfloor, under the kerdi tray onto the plywood subfloor, unmodified everywhere else. with the “debate” on whether or not to use modified vs unmodified i started to do some research as well as read the kerdi manual .. at that point i figured i would email schluter to be sure. he said everything is right except for use unmodified under the shower tray. reading the specs on the unmodified uncoupling mortar.. i am not sure if this was correct .. at this point we are not going to tear it out .. so i just want peace of mind – hopefully you can give that to me:)
concern #2 – again with the mortar – reading everywhere to use a certain mid-set mortar to use with large porcelain tiles.. schluter says only use unmodified on top of their products … we used the uncoupling mat mortar because of the warranty issue .. hoping that is ok:)
concern #3.. i used a 1/2 x 1/2 inch trowel.. what was recommended for a tile that big.. i know now i did some things wrong .. and was wondering how the structure will be affected by what i screwed up:) i remembered using a rubber mallet to place some of the tiles in our old house .. so i did just that .. i definitely was using more force than i should have because i had mortar coming up in between the tiles. i also back-buttered – because of the size of the tile. in addition .. when i ended up close to the shower i was off about 1/4 of an inch .. by this point i was tired and very frustrated because those tiles are very awkward to move around and i didn’t really have a system … i figured i would have to go back to everything i did and move it a bit .. my mom was there watching the kids and wanted to help .. there was no stopping her .. she hopped up on the tiles in question and moved them with her feet …. lots and lots of mortar squeezed out of course. it actually helped as far as getting the tile lined up. the act – it is done .. nothing i can do at this point .. but am wondering .. are they going to pop up eventually? did that break the good bond? or does it really only affect the levelness of the tille and the amount of mortar we have to clean up? i can live with a small amount of tile lippage – i was able to move them around and “adjust” them with my mallet – that i probably should not have been using:) i can barely feel it with my finger and have read that sanded grout can help lippage a bit.. but is it structurally sound ?.. please don’t tell me i have to pry all of tile up and start over .. please;)
concern #4 .. grout .. tile guy sold us on quartz loc 2 grout.. very attractive flexible grout. getting on forums to attempt to get more information i read alot of horror stories on how it falls out later, etc. i ahve come to the conclusion that that is almost all with quartz lock 1.. and also with the installation process. from what i understand .. the mortar has to be absolutely cured .. no moisture whatsoever.. only a very lightly damp songe to clean it up.. cannot leave any water anywhere .. and very long times to dry. 7 to 10 days before any water can be introduced .. and i remember reading somewhere 22 or 28 days to cure fully.. that being said i am very nervous to use this stuff. i am in no way a professional .. looking at their you tube video .. it looks easy enough to install .. but i tend to screw things up. epoxy grout scares me .. i can see myself REALLY screwing that up. so my husband and i were talking .. we would like the toilet to be installed sooner than later .. so we were thinking of using regular cement grout on the floor so that we can install the toilet .. and use the urethane for the shower .. we can wait the 10- days for that. sooooo .. tonight will be 48 hours that the mortar – uncoupling mortar – has dried .. can we place cement grout tonight or should we give it more time… also .. do you recommend a brand over another ? we were going to use laticrete brand .. and went to lowes .. all been replaced with TEC brand?? the only other kind they had was the spectra loc epoxy and again .. i do not feel i am skilled enough to attempt that. on that same note – we are planning on using the quartz lock on the shower walls and floor – 8 x 12 wall tiles, granite pebble floor .. placed the kerdi about 2 weeks ago (our schedules are conflicting along with children are making this a very, very long and drawn out reno
.. after putting up the tiles – how much time do you recommend before using the quartzlock? i know the mortar says you can grout in 24 hours .. but again .. i know this stuff is different and i do not want it to fall out:) and just to be clear .. after using the grout .. 7 days before we can take a shower? or should we just wait the full 22 or 28 days (can’t remember off hand:) for the full cure?
and just for the heck of it .. a very basic question .. when you place the tile … lightly tap on it with a mallet? or just wiggle it slightly to seat it into the mortar? i know my hand was too heavy on the floor but would like to not screw up the shower walls also:)
ok .. so sorry this is so long .. but i have been reading too much information and i just am figuring we have done everything wrong .. i need some piece of mind before we can move on:) thanks so much for any help or guidance you can give!!! SO much appreciated;)
Hi Dana,
1. Your modified mortar beneath the pan will be just fine.
2. The uncoupling mat mortar is just fine as well.
3. You DO NOT have to take all that tile up. Unless she went in there seven or eight hours after you finished and started moving the tiles around it did not break the bond. They’ll be fine.
4. Quartzlock2 is good stuff. They did have problems with quartzlock1, but it seems they’ve gotten them all worked out. There is a 7-10 day wait for water introduction into the system, but once cured it does what they say it does. Don’t know anything about the 22 day thing – never had to wait that long for anything. A 28 day wait is the cure time for a FULLY cured cement-based product, so that’s where you likely ran across that. But Urethane grout has no cement in it. So one thing has nothing to do with the other.
*That does not mean you need to wait 28 days for regular grout or thinsets to fully cure before use – that’s just when they reach full strength.
Tec is a decent grout – using sanded tec grout in the floor will be fine. You can install the grout in the shower after 24 hours like the thinset manufacturer says – urethane doesn’t change that.
I don’t use a mallet, but it won’t hurt anything while you’re installing as long as you don’t bust the tile. Nothing wrong with using one, I just don’t. It’s simply a different installation technique. If you want to use it that’s fine, it’ll help with getting a good bond.
If you were trying to win the longest question ever award, you didn’t make it. Yours was about half. Valiant effort, though.
THANK you:) i can now sleep tonight
thanks so much for the quick response .. if ya haven’t noticed i worry about everything! 
thanks so much for the help!! now at least i know it will last for a few months – hehe:) have a great day!! 
Hi Roger
My husband and I are tiling our shower with 12X12 onyx. We made the grout lines 3/16 inch. I understand now that this was wrong. The tiles are polished and I assume we should not use sanded grout. What kind of grout would you suggest so we will have no shrinking? Thank you so much!
Hi Sharon,
You can use urethane or epoxy grout. Those are about your only two viable options at this point. Either one will work fine.
Thank you Roger. From what I am reading, epoxy grout seems too complicated for us first time tilers. Is urethane easier to find and apply? Should we seal the onyx before grouting? Thank you for your time and expertise!
Hi Sharon,
I don’t know that it’s easier to find, but it is easier to use. No need to seal onyx before grouting if it is polished onyx. If it’s tumbled onyx then yes, seal it first.
Do you have any experience with urethane grout? I’m planning to use it in my master bath and bedroom (tiling floors throughout, 400ish sq ft).
Hi Lori,
Yes. Whaddya wanna know?
My best advice is to only do about 6-10 square feet at a time, then clean it up. DO NOT get too far ahead before you clean it up. It’s good stuff. Just make sure you wait the required amount of time before water exposure or foot traffic. (It’ll say how long on the bucket.)
when installing polished tile in our bathroom should the grout be slightly below the tiles or flush? We have used un-sanded grout do to the small lines and polished surface.
Hi Harold,
Grout should ideally be just slightly below the face of the tile. If level with the face it looks better initially but the very edges of the grout at the top where they meet the face of the tile are not very sturdy and normally end up chipped or dinged in some manner.
Hi Roger,
A friend of mine suggested that I allow the sealer to dry, then just before applying the grout wet the travertine tiles. Doing this will make the grout clean up much easier. Do you normally wet the tiles before applying the grout?
thanks
Joe
Hi Joe,
Absolutely not. When grouting you don’t want to use any more water than necessary – it weakens the grout and leads to efflorescence. You certainly don’t want water on the surface of the tile – it will pull extra water into the grout lines with the grout causing it to shrink excessively while curing. If you have a natural porous stone which absorbs water you can sponge it down so the tile is saturated but the surface is dry but since you’ve sealed it your tile, stone or not, will not benefit from that.
I have a question, I have installed 4″ Travertine tiles on my kitchen backsplash that are very porous they have a lot of small texture hole in them which looks very natural and nice but isn’t the grout going to fill all the holes when I apply it to the grout lines?
Hi David,
Yes, grout will fill the small pits in the travertine. It’s supposed to. Look at it this way: would you rather have those tiny pits and holes filled with grout or spaghetti sauce? Only one of ’em is going to be sanitary.
Which one??
gativll
Depends on how good your spaghetti sauce is.
Hello Roger,
it’s Steve again, the one that had trouble with the hardie backer. It’s been a while and I hope all has been well with you. I finally finished re-fabricating all my granite and got it installed, it looks terrific. A lot of work but worth every bit of it. I do plan on using spectra lock as you have recommended. What is the largest amount of area you suggest I do at one time, I don’t want a problem mess :-). Approximately what kind of working time can I expect with this product? You have also suggested putting half in the freezer to extend its use, is it possible to leave it in the freezer too long, what is the max time you recommend? I had used the absolute black granite tiles. You recommend sealing the tiles before grouting, correct? I also do not remember the sealer you recommended for the absolute black granite. I have used the Flex Bond for my thinset, how much time do you recommend before sealing and again for grouting? More than 24 hours?
I also have some information that I’d like to pass on to you. Do you ever get into bonding/laminating granites and natural stone. If so, the product is called “total edge system” from a company called Bonstone. http://www.bonstone.com . They have some amazing products. They say this epoxy is stronger than the granite itself, I can attest that they are correct. I actually broke and shattered the granite before I could break the epoxy bond. I just thought I would pass this information on to you, I hope it’s of use.
As always, Thank you for all your help and advice.
Steve
Hey Steve again.
I’ve written a whole new blog post about spectralock here: Working with spectralock epoxy grout – that should answer most of your questions. I have not placed the new spectralock into the freezer – I simply mix smaller batches now. The post explains all that.
If you are using epoxy you should seal before grouting. You can seal as soon as you want to and grout the day after that. I normally use Miracle Sealant’s 511 Impregnator.
I am familiar with bonstone. It is some good stuff. As a general rule, though, 95% of stone epoxies on the market are stronger than the stone – you’ll shatter the stone before the bond with most of them. I have played with it, though, it’s cool stuff. I have the equivalent of a mad scientists laboratory with tile in my garage.
Roger,
AWESOME site!
Thanks so much for the time you take and the wisdom you share with us all. Love the “Flawed” page!
I’ve read through quite a bit of the site and I needed some clarification. I have a tiled floor that was laid a year ago. About 25% of the grout is coming up and now there are some loose tiles. Some of the floor is doing fine, but other parts seem to be falling apart. The floor is laid on backerboard over OSB with thinset. I picked up one of the tiles and no thinset was on the back, not a hair. It was all still on the floor. I’m wondering if this is a problem with movement of the stubstrate/floor or crappy installation with the thinset, or both. Take the whole floor up or repair the broken areas?
Thanks so much for any advice!
Hi Jenn,
It’s likely a little of both but normally with a situation like that it is simply improper installation. The tile was (obviously) not backbuttered while being installed. It has also been my experience that when a situation like that arises, more often than not, it is due to the installer mixing too much thinset and/or not using the mixed batch quickly enough or spreading the thinset on the floor, letting it skim over, then setting tile on it. The tile never gets a good bond.
When it is one area this is normally a dead giveaway – that’s the last part of the floor they set. Rather than mixing new or more thinset they simply wanted to get done. The thinset should not have been used. The good news is that you can normally remove as much of the thinset from the floor as you can and simply reset the tiles correctly (backbuttering them). This should probably work in your situation.