There are three basic types of grout available for your tile installation. They are:
- Non-Sanded (also known as Unsanded)
- Sanded
- Epoxy
Choosing the correct grout for your particular installation will not only complete the job correctly, it will also cut down on maintenance. Properly installed and sealed grout will last for the life of your tile. So which to use and when?
Non-Sanded (or Unsanded) Grout
Unsanded grout is made specifically for grout lines smaller than 1/8 inch wide. This is a general rule. I use unsanded grout only in tile with grout lines smaller than 1/16″. Unsanded grout (all grout to different degrees) will shrink as it cures. The reason for only using it in smaller grout lines is the wider the grout lines, the more grout must be used to fill them. The more grout you have, the more it will shrink. If you try to fill grout lines that are too large the grout will shrink enough to pull away from the sides of the tile.
Unsanded grout is easier to work with, especially on vertical surfaces such as a shower wall, because it is “stickier” than the sanded variety. You can spread it onto the wall and it will stick there while you force it into the grout lines. It is also much easier on the hands than sanded. Although it is easier to work with, you need to make sure that the application for which you are using it is correct.
Sanded Grout
Sanded Grout is used for any size grout lines 1/8″ and wider. Although the specifications state unsanded grout be used in grout lines that are exactly 1/8″, you really should use sanded for them. It will ensure proper adhesion to your tile and guard against too much shrinkage. No, not Seinfeld shrinkage, grout shrinkage.
Sanded grout has fine sand added to it. This prevents the grout from shrinking too much as it cures. That’s why it is used for larger grout lines and should be used for the majority of tile installations.
If you have a polished stone such as granite, marble, limestone, and some polished travertine, you should be careful about using sanded grout. While sanded may be the correct choice for the size of grout lines, it may not be the best choice. Depending upon the polish of the stone the sand in the grout may actually scratch it. If you decide to use sanded make sure you test it in an inconspicuous area first to ensure it will not scratch your finish. Or use epoxy which would be a better choice anyway.
Epoxy Grout
Epoxy grout is the top of the line and best choice for any tile application. It can be substituted for sanded or unsanded grout. It is more sturdy than both as well as being waterproof and stain resistant.
Epoxy is a two or three part chemical consisting of the base and the activator. With some brands the color is an additional part that must be added. Once the parts are mixed a chemical reaction begins. From that point, depending on the brand of epoxy, you have only a limited amount of time to get everything grouted before the grout becomes stiff enough to be unworkable. When it reaches that point, if you do not have everything grouted you are SOL.
To help slow the cure time you can mix your epoxy then put half of it in the freezer. The cold air will slow the chemical reaction and lengthen the working time. You can then work with the other half until it is all used. Clean it up, wipe everything down, then grab the second half out of the freezer and finish up. When you first pull it out of the freezer it will be, well, frozen. It thaws quickly, though, so should be workable within a few minutes. This essentially doubles the working time of your grout and ensures you don’t have to rush through it.
Since most epoxy grouts do not contain sand (or at least not in the classic sense of sand) it will normally not scratch your tile. If you have highly polished granite or marble that’s important. Be sure to test first anyway!
Different brands of epoxy have different working times as well as some being more difficult to work with than others. The brand with which I have had the most luck and the only brand I ever use is SpectraLOCK from Laticrete. It has a longer working time than any other epoxy grout (at least any I’ve ever used) and is virtually stain proof. Please don’t take that to mean the you can grout a jacuzzi with it, fill it with cherry kool-aid, and expect it not to be pink (Don’t do that). It just means that for all intents and purposes it will not stain without concerted effort. In my opinion it is the best on the market.
The only drawback of epoxy grout would be the price. It is fairly expensive. When weighed against the upside, however, it is well worth it. Low maintenance demands and high durability of epoxy grout make it well worth the money.
Picking the correct grout for your application is a key part of a proper tile installation. If you choose incorrectly you could end up with a multitude of problems and headaches. Grout, chosen and installed correctly, will complete your tile installation and push it from a good tile job to a great one. Do not underestimate the power of the grout.
Hello!
May I ask for your opinion of possible cause of grout turning pink on shower floor. This was a fifty year old basement shower with a concrete base with tile floor. We leveled floor over the existing tile with a Henry leveling product designed for this purpose. We set the tile with an epoxy thin set. Grouted it with a high grade sanded grout, let it dry thoroughly and sealed it twice. Despite this careful and professional work the homeowner is getting a this pinkish color in his off white grout. I have not been able to diagnose the problem even with the help of experienced people in the industry. Can you help ?
Thank you!
Hi Dale,
Ooh, a puzzle, I love puzzles!
My first reaction is that the homeowner regularly uses a sub-par spray tan product which washes off when they shower.
Then after thinking about that I realized people don’t spray tan much anymore, so that probably isn’t it.
Mildew. More often than not when pink shows up on a shower floor it is likely mildew. There are forms of pink mold but they do not normally show up on the surface. If you scratch the surface of the grout and the pink is all the way throughout (you can’t scrape the pink off) they probably have mildew in the grout. A lot of times, in my experience anyway, this is caused by using either a topical sealer rather than a penetrating sealer, or a penetrating sealer which does not ‘breathe’. A good quality penetrating (impregnating) sealer will allow moisture to dissipate through the grout lines – it’s only there to assist with staining, ironically enough.
A lot of topical sealers do not breathe well and moisture will essentially be trapped beneath it rather than dissipating. If moisture lingers in the grout it can cause mildew which presents as a pink hue. That’s my best guess – probably not worth a damn anyway.
What type of sealer (type and brand) did you use on there? Of course if the homeowner has a deep tan with a strange orange hue it may, in fact, be the spray tan.
We have a new shower that the grout is cracking…as I came to find out, the contractor used unsanded grout and the joints are about 1/8 or larger as the subway tile was undulated. It is doing exactly what you said in parts as there are hair line cracks appearing. What should I do? Should I refill with unsanded then put clear caulk over it, or should I fill in with sanded in the same color? Help!!
Damnit Kate, I hate it when people ask me questions when I know they won’t like the answer.
Filling your grout lines will not work. Filling your grout lines and covering it with caulk will not work – and will make a mess. Needless to say – and you already know this – he should have used sanded grout. Here’s the part you don’t want: the only way to correctly fix this is to remove the non-sanded and replace it with sanded.
First, however, we need to make sure your cracks are due to the grout shrinking and not a larger issue like undue movement in your substrate. It is likely shrinking if it was installed within the last 28 days. If so call your contractor back and make his ass do it. From what you are describing with the size of the grout lines it sounds like that is probably the problem. I also assume here that you are seeing these hairline cracks appearing in both the vertical and horizontal lines? If so it is probably due to shrinking.
The reason filling them won’t work is that no matter what you fill them with the grout that is currently installed will continue to shrink. For small or hairline cracks the only thing you would be able to fill them with is non-sanded grout so the currently installed grout shrinking will simply lead to the same problem. You CAN wait about two months, at which time most of the major shrinking will be finished, and try to go over it all with more unsanded grout to fill in the hairline cracks. It would likely look like hell and may not work, but it’s an option.
I do need to say this: If your shower was properly constructed and waterproofed your grout has absolutely nothing to do with the waterproofness of your shower. Hairline cracks aren’t going to make your shower less waterproof then it already is – provided it was properly built. You may know that already but your question about placing caulk over the grout makes me want to ensure you of that.
Thanks for responding…Ok well it was the relative of a friend yadda yadda mistake….can’t call him back…it has been about 9 months or so since the install… then the cracks. There is 1 horizonal crack at the first row of tiles closest to floor..the other crack lines are where the sill (corian) sits on top of the tile also horizonal. A preformed shower base was used. The rest of the shower appears fine (thankfully). If it was a structural issue am I safe to assume that cracks would be all over by now with this length of time??? I am hoping it was all done correctly (obviously now skeptical). Ok, so are we saying that I remove all of the unsanded grout just where it is cracked and then re fill with sanded? I am angry that I spent a lot of $$ and it looks like crap in those areas. I stare at it every day in the shower and get frustrated. Lesson learned
Well Kate, as much as I hate giving bad news I love giving good news!
Now, with more information, it sounds to me like the cracking in your grout are occurring at what are called ‘changes of plane’. This is simply where the plane of the tile, in this case the wall, changes direction at a corner or meets a different material such as your acrylic base or corian. These different materials with expand and contract at different seasonal rates – this puts undue stress on grout which is meant to not move, and it will begin to crack.
This is why you should use caulk or silicone at all changes of plane – it’s meant to be flexible. So yes, you need to remove the grout from those horizontal lines but replace it with caulk or silicone – silicone would be best. There is nothing structural (yes, it would be all over the place and random) or necessarily wrong with your installation at all. Grouting those spaces rather than caulking them is something a lot of pros even do incorrectly.
So I take back my previous rant.
It’s very common and an easy fix. Nothing is compromised. Caulk those lines and your frustration will melt away. Sorry for getting you all worked up. 
pshew! you had me worried there. I just finished my telephone booth size shower with 1/16″ grout lines on teh wall and 1/8″ on the floor (it was little tiles on a mat) and used nonsanded everywhere. floor looks fine (now) and I’m worried it will crack everywhere. little octagon and squares it would be nearly impossible to saw out the grout and regrout that floor.
Hey Geoff,
No worries. Non-sanded grout is technically approved for 1/8″ grout lines and when mixed properly it will be just fine (provided, of course, that your substrate is built correctly). I simply prefer to use sanded grout unless I absolutely have to use non-sanded. I just hate the stuff. I’m an ass like that.
I would have liked to use sanded on the floor except I would have had to buy a big box for just 9 sq ft. I had way underbid the job to start with as far as labor goes, so, well you can see where this is going. I don’t do enough jobs to be sure I will use up the remaining grout, so I was hoping one box would do for both the walls and floor, and it was, with about a third of the box left over — some in the bag and the rest in the bucket.
so I’ve got 4″ field tile set on the lugs, with 1/16″ grout lines I was planning on using unsanded grout. the floor is 2″ and 1″ tiles in a pattern with grout lines 1/8″ and smaller. Would the same unsanded be Ok on the floor?
Hey Geoff,
The unsanded will be fine on the floor as well. I use sanded grout in 1/8″ grout lines but the unsanded is acceptable.
Please help!!! I just finished a tile job in my bathroom. We used 1/8″ spacers. There may be some grout lines that are a little larger. We have a glass mosaic tile sheets that are1/16″ spaced used as an accent strip and as the back of our shower niche. We are ready to grout and after reading this I’m not sure if i bought the correct grout. I purchased unsanded grout because of the glass mosaic tiles. But now I wonder if I should use the unsanded just on the mosaic tiles and then buy some sanded grout for everything else. I don’t want to mess this up. Should I try epoxy grout? I’m a little scared of this. Please help! I’m grouting in the next couple of days. I really hope you can help. This has been such a great resource.
Hi Jennifer,
You can actually use sanded grout for all of it – or unsanded grout for all of it.
1/8″ is the size at which either can technically be used. I use sanded in everything 1/16″ and larger – you don’t have to. If you have unsanded it will be fine to use it for everything. Just make sure you read the directions (really) and mix the grout with the correct amount of water, let it slake, etc. Follow the directions exactly and it will minimize the chance of the grout shrinking.
Epoxy grout is something that CAN be done by beginners – I just don’t recommend it. The biggest problem is the short working time. Even spectralock, which has the longest working time, must be used within 80 minutes or you’re screwed. You may not want to try epoxy – it’ll make you hate tile.
Don’t panic.
Hey Roger,
My husband and I remodeled our small bathroom ourselves, with the help and expertise of my father who has loads of construction and finishing experience. There was a lot of tile work- a LOT of tile work- and I did it all myself with my dad’s wet saw. I had never done tile before, but your site gave me the tips I needed. I’m pretty much a meticulous, perfectionist pain-in-the-ass, with serious control issues, so I prefer to do most things myself rather than risk being disappointed by a lazy-ass slacker who has no love in their heart (or is drunk, or in the full throes of heroin withdrawal, etc.).
The tile work came out excellent. I labored over every seam and detail, which is why a remodel on a bathroom the size of a closet has taken over a year…
I finally started grouting my bathroom today and wanted to thank you for your advice regarding epoxy grout.
I used the Home Depot stuff, CEG Lite, and had serious reservations, trepidations, and a few other -ations, but was too lazy to return it all and get the Spectralock (yes…a lazy perfectionist, so what?). The tubs are .29 gallons, and it took me over an hour to apply just one (don’t judge), but it stayed pliable the whole time. I put the bucket it was mixed in inside a pot filled with cold water and ice cubes to keep the thermal reaction from intensifying at the bottom of the bucket.
It went on really easy, but I don’t understand why epoxy grout floats weigh like, 5 lbs each. WTF. And then wiping it off burned another 3,000 calories and I only did an area about 40 square foot with the first tub. It was supposed to cover more, but I have curved molding going on that is impossible to scrape at an angle, so there was a lot left on the surface, also known as a shitload to wipe off later.
Point being, it looks AMAZING, I love the epoxy grout, and your tip about vinegar is priceless. My arms were sticky plastic-coated up to the elbow, but a half cup of vinegar made it come right off. It was essential to have vinegar in the rinse water.
After all the things I had read on the “interwebs” about NO NO NO EPOXY GROUT for beginners, I was almost scared off. But I think that a beginner can do it just fine if they are careful and prepared. The best thing about the epoxy grout, besides being nearly bomb proof, is that you can smooth any grout line with a wet finger once it starts to set. I was literally able to perfect every seam, so my crazy, inner control freak was singing Partridge Family songs (even though my outer freak was listening to Chemical Brothers).
To sum up: EPOXY = YES!
Thanks for all you do to keep us newbies straight and level.
Regards,
~Laurie
Hey Laurie,
Thanks for your comments! Nice to know I’m not the only anal retentive..err, perfectionist out there when it comes to tile.
There is a bit of a learning curve to epoxy but it is bomb-proof – I love it! It’s a great workout, too. Glad to hear it all worked out for you.
I disagree with you 100% regarding Spectralock epoxy grout. My shower is two years old and I have a black mold that is ingrained into the grout. It looks horrible with my #1230 Beige Sand color. I have used every cleaner made by man and have not been able to remove this creeping mold.
I would love to be corrected and have someone tell me how I can remove this mold however even the technical services department at Laticrete was unable to help me!
Wow Bob – 100% huh? Okay.
Let’s see if I can help you solve your problem. First of all if you have mold it is not due to the grout – it’s due to moisture. Spectralock, or any epoxy grout, does not retain moisture in any form once it’s cured provided it is properly installed. It is essentially plastic. It does not retain water nor feed mold spores.
If the grout was not packed into the grout lines well enough it can leave voids either between the grout and the side of the tile or beneath the grout itself. These voids can trap moisture and allow mold to grow. If you can take a real close look at your grout (once we get it cleaned off for you) see if there are any pinholes or razor-thin separations between the side of the tile and the grout. These are both indications of voids in the grout. If that is the problem you can either grout over it (in the case of pinholes) or regrout it (in the case of separation). But before we fix that let’s get rid of your mold.
Every cleaner known to man is kind of vague.
Have you tried oxygen bleach? This is the key ingredient in products like oxy-clean. If you’ve tried that and it didn’t work then sulfamic acid will. Sulfamic acid is sold at hardware stores (you may be able to find it at some Home Depots and Lowes) and is normally sold in powdered form. Just follow the directions and it will kill and clean all that mold for you. Be sure you have good ventilation – stuff gets nasty. You probably haven’t tried it because it isn’t known as a cleaning product.
If that doesn’t work (it should) I’ve got all kinds of things that’ll fix it for you. Let’s see if we can get your disagreement with me down to 90% like everyone else.
Hi Roger,
Thanks for the website. I’m tiling a bathroom with 12 X 12 slate. The floor and shower stall. Every thinest mortar I read says not for shower floors! What can I use to put down the shower floor? I laid a Mark E industries floor system and painted on some blue LATICRETE Barrier. I laid the bathroom floor with un-motified thinest. Also, what grout do you recommend in a shower?
Thanks from a novice.
Frank
Hi Frank,
Not sure what type of thinset mortar you’re reading that on. Any powdered thinset sold in a 50lb. bag that you mix with water will work fine for your shower floor – even the unmodified. As long as it isn’t the pre-mixed stuff sold in a bucket you can use it for your shower floor.
Regular cement-based grout is the normal type for most showers. If you want more stain-resistance you can use Laticrete Spectra-LOCK epoxy grout. It’s bullet-proof.
It’s also fairly expensive. As long as you follow the mixing directions on the bag of regular grout and give it a couple of days to cure it will be just fine. Again – don’t use the pre-mixed stuff sold in a bucket.
Great! Thanks a million. I bought the LATICRETE mega-bond with the additive. Was holding off until i was sure. Be safe.
Hey Frank,
Mega-bond is great stuff. That will work just fine for your shower. Have fun.
ok…now i am really confused after reading other’s questions and your responses!!!
our situation: my husband and i are remodeling our master bath. we have limited experience with the installation of the shower pan so we opted to have a professional do that installation, and we will do the tiling ourself. our original plan was to install 2 x 2 porcelain tiles on the floor with a combination of 6 x 6 and 12 x 12 porcelain tiles on the wall separated by a 6″ row of glass tile of random lengths. as we dryfitted the floor tiles, we were dismayed to discover the shower was not completely square and the regular shape of the 2 x 2 tiles only accentuated this flaw. we then decided to change to honey onyx pebbles for the shower floor instead to minimize this difference. we installed them today BEFORE reading some of the other posts. we used white versabond mortar. will we have problems in the future by not having used an epoxy mortar? should we remove them and reinstall them with epoxy mortar? AND 2nd question: we will be installing all of the wall tiles (porcelain tiles with the glass accent rows as mentioned above) with an 1/8″ spacing. what grout is recommended for the wall application…sanded or unsanded? (we already bought the sanded grout (TEC accucolor) recommended by the guy who installed the shower pan). 3rd question: does this grout need to be sealed? we plan on applying sealer to the onyx before starting the grouting. what to do? what to do????? would appreciate a quick response. thanks!!
Hi Elaine,
1) No, you do not need to tear out the floor and use epoxy – the versabond is fine as long as you have good coverage and a solid installation. I do recommend epoxy setting material for onyx around fireplaces where temperature fluctuations are extreme.
2) I would use sanded grout on that.
3) The TEC grout should be sealed.
4) Don’t panic!
Have fun.
Hi Roger!
We just re grouted our shower walls and it came out beautiful. When we took off the old some spaces were large enough to stick a nickel in and some spaces were smaller. I was told to use non sanded grout and realized we bought sanded after the job was done. Should I be worried? I’m afraid it will wash off and all that hard work was for nothing. Advice?
Thanks, Diane
Hi Diane,
Absolutely not. As long as you removed most of the old grout before you installed the new you are actually better off with the sanded. It won’t shrink. I use sanded in everything except ‘nubbed’ tiles – those are grout lines less than 1/16″.
You’re set!
hey roger,
i just grouted a part of my onyx back splash in my kitchen with a very sparkly and gem-like round onyx. i’ve used the non sanded grout, white (to maximize the brilliance) and it seems that the grout got into the grain of the onyx, and is not as sparkly. the onyx with less grain are just as beautiful, but the more grainy pieces (about 1/2 of all of them) are duller. is there anything i can do to take the grout out of the individual pieces, and to prevent it from happening when i finish the rest of the kitchen? please help!
Hi Cathy,
Are you talking about the ‘grain’ on the face of the onyx? The only thing I could really equate to a grain, having to do with onyx, would be the individual striations, or ‘stripes’ of the stone itself. Are your onyx tile smooth and shiny or rough and unfinished? About the only way to get that out without ruining your stone would be to take a stiff scrubbing brush to it (Not one with metal bristles!) and scrub it out of there before it fully cures. If that is the problem.
I suspect that the problem may not be that grout got into it but that water has soaked into it. Wet onyx get dull until it dries. Try soaking down an extra piece real well in the sink and hold it up there. Does it look the same as the ones you are describing? If so then that’s all it is. Once it dries out (that could take up to a week) it will go back to being shiny. If that is your problem.
Hey Roger,
I just recently regrouted my shower walls and floor. The space between the tiles are about 1/16″. I used premixed grout in a tub that said for shower floors and walls. The walls seem to be doing fine so far but the floor keeps washing out. I have redone it already once. The first time I did it I used a sealer and it did’nt seem to help. The first application I waited three days (instructions recommended 48 hours) to let the grout dry and then applied a sealer and waited four hours before using the shower. Do you think the premix is where the problem is? Should remove it all from the floor and go back with a unsanded grout?
Hey Jason,
Yes, the premixed grout is absolutely the problem. The only real solution is to remove it all from the floor and regrout with regular sanded grout. If you continue to try and use the premixed it will continue to wash out. Just FYI – sealer does nothing but assist in making grout stainproof – it does not waterproof tile or grout.
I have removed all the grout from my new shower floor after a “professional” tile job gone bad. After waiting two weeks to allow all the moisture to evaporate from the one and only attempt at showering, I am ready to regrout. I am now faced with inconsistant tile spacing which creates various width grout joints. I have 2″ ceramic tiles with the majority of them spaced 1/16″ -1/8″ apart. However, there are several joints that are 1/32″, barely wide enough to get a knife blade into. The space where the wall comes down to meet the floor is about 1/32″ in places. There are also areas around the edge of the shower that have 1/4″ spaces. The grout I removed was sanded. Shouldn’t I use unsanded to ensure the grout gets into the narrow joints? But will the unsanded crack in the wider joints? Would unsanded mixed with a grout additive such as Grout Boost be of any benifit or should just mix up a batch of each sanded and unsanded and use accordingly? I was thinking of using Mapei Ultracolor Plus (sanded) which they say can be used for joints 1/16″ – 1″. I also considered epoxy grout, but I am not experienced at this and don’t know if i could wok fast enough for the setting time. Any advice will be helpfull!
Hey Anne,
I would use the sanded grout for the whole thing. The Ultracolor contains relatively small sand granules in the sanded version which makes it a bit easier to get into the smaller spaces. Even if a grout is the same color the sanded and non-sanded versions may look different after they cure so using both would probably leave it looking worse. Just make sure to pack it into the smaller lines really, really well.
Found your site while looking for advice on proper grout for onyx backsplash. My wife just had an installer put up the onyx backsplash — which looked great without the grout — and then he grouted it with gray material because of some gray coloring in our new granite countertop. Now the onyx has lost all its translucence and luster. I’m afraid it was a fatal error. The stone itself appears old and gray now, but I don’t know if it’s worth trying to “polish” the onyx stone or just suck it up, rip it out and start fresh. Advice?
Hey John,
The problem you are having is due to the light transmission through the sides of the tile. When you add grout, of any color, you will considerably diminish the amount of light entering into the individual tile. Since onyx is highly translucent removing any of the light will mute the natural color. To maintain the color of the stone you want to allow as much light transmission as possible through the sides of the stone. Using gray grout has diminished this translucence more that most light-colored grouts.
Unfortunately attempting to polish or otherwise fix this by doing anything to the face of the stone will not help. You have essentially lost all light transmission through the sids of the stone. If you take an extra piece of that onyx and wrap black or electrical tape around the sides of it you will see exactly what I mean. Short of tearing it out your only other option would be to remove the grout and go with what is called “knife grade” liquid polyester. Onyx being a fragile stone, though, this may be a more tedious process than you may want to tackle – replacement would be easier on everything except the bank account.
I’m building a new addition to my home (3 bedrooms/ 2 baths) and will be using ceramic, porcelin, marble and granite on floors and walls. I have lots of dogs so vomit and urine are a cleaning concern as well as a wheelchair bound Mother in the mix. I have been offered a choice of sanded grout sealed or unsealed, Quartzlock 2 for a $2 sq. ft. upcharge or Spectralock at a $4 sq ft upcharge. Total is 1400-1500 sq ft for floor. What are your thoughts?
I had my original home done with Bonsal or Pro-Spec epoxy and it was a mess and I hate it.
Hi JJ,
My advice is usually always get the best you can afford. While I know what the best products are, and love using them, I also realize it is not always in the budget. That said, consideration also needs to be taken with the possibility or need to replace the given product in the future should there be a problem. In other words, if you get the mid-range product, which quartzlock actually is, and end up sometime in the future needing to replace it you will not only need to pay an additional $2/ft you will also need to pay to have the product removed, surface prepared, then re-grouted. So it depends on your situation and budget.
Not knowing your budget, your situation sounds like it may warrant the spectralock. It is, in my opinion, the absolute best grout product out there. If you have not yet read the post about how stainproof it actually is you may want to check that out: Spectralock vs. Kool-Aid – kind of warped but definitely gets the point across.
If you can do the spectralock, by all means go that route. Quartzlock is also a very good product but I don’t use it – I just don’t like the way it works (it’s a personal thing – nothing wrong with the product at all). As far as how stainproof and durable quartzlock is – I honestly couldn’t tell you. I can say the coloring is very consistent – but so is spectralock. With your situation (pets, etc.) I wouldn’t go with unsealed grout and if you choose sealed grout it would need to be resealed every 2-5 years depending on the particular sealer used.
Spectralock is also nothing like the old epoxy grouts as far as how it cleans up, how workable it is, or how it turns out – it’s much, much better.
Thank you Roger,
If I am going to use the Spectralock, how would you recommend cleaning it on a daily basis – vomit and urine that may have set overnight and then on a weekly basis for general floor/wall cleaning? What about the upgrade charge, does $4 sq ft sound reasonable? My next question would be regarding the warranty. I would only be offered a standard one year warranty on that upcharge. I have asked them to check into the 25 year or even lifetime warranties to see how much a difference there is for that piece of mind.
Any words of wisdom on cleaning my current 1500sq ft of the Bonsal epoxy grout with ceramic tile? I have 23 rescued dogs, all with physical or emotional problems and most are not housebroken. The floor is cleaned daily, usually multiple times in certain areas. If I scrub with a scrub brush and Lysol, 409, or hydrogen peroxide, I can get the stains out eventually, but I don’t have time to scrub every inch of grout everyday. I also have 3 birds and 5 horses to take care of. The Lysol and 409 are also toxic to the dogs if they lick it off their paws or directly.
Hey JJ,
Just regular soap and water should take just about anything off the spectralock. For deep cleaning you can use oxygen bleach which is available online or in products such as OxyClean. It is an absolute green, non-toxic product and not harmful to animals in any way. Spectralock grout has a lifetime warranty – if you have problems I guarantee that Laticrete will stand behind it. You can read about that here: Laticrete Spectralock Warranty
Oxygen bleach will also help on your other epoxy grout. Just mix it with water, let is soak for fifteen minutes or so, and rinse it off really well. Two or three times should take care of most any stain. $4.00/square foot sounds about right for the grout.
Hi Roger,
I’m installing 1/2″ square honey onyx tiles for a backsplash. I have them all in place using white thinset and it looks great. The problem is the grout. I grouted some scrap pieces with off-white Laticrete 1600 and the tiles all went dark. I tried sealing the polished surface of some other scraps with Tile Guard Premium Sealant and grouted with Bright White Laticrete 1600. Same result, just with annoying bright white grout lines. I’ve read that you’re not supposed to seal inside the grout lines or the grout won’t stick. I assume water’s leeching into the tiles from the edges, causing the darkness. Does the water eventually dry out and cause the tiles to return to their original color? BTW I have these scrap samples stuck on a big white board and it looks like an elementary school project! Thanks.
Hi Paul,
What you are seeing is referred to as ‘framing’. You are correct – it is caused by the water being absorbed through the sides of the tile which darkens the tile around the sides. It does evaporate – usually within 24-48 hours.
Honey onyx will actually dull or darken a bit after they are grouted – the darker the grout the darker they will get. This is from the translucence of the stone itself. When ungrouted and simply installed light will shine through the sides of the tile and actually lighten up the tile as it bounces off the crystal inside the stone. After grouting – no matter what color – this light is significantly diminished which will, in turn, darken the look of the tile. Unfortunately short of backlighting the onyx there isn’t much you can do to prevent it. The best solution is to use a lighter grout (bright white will diminish it just as much as off-white) and have plenty of lighting pointing at the tile face. The framing darkening will go away for you, though.
That’s sweet! I like elementary school projects – it’s why I became a tile guy. I get to play in the mud every day!
Thanks Roger! I went down to check my “project board” this morning and sure enough everything was lighter and looking much better. Tiles are still a little darker overall but it’s nice to know why. It’s a little too late to backlight everything, but with a few strategically placed moving spotlights I might be able to get the disco ball effect from these tiles.
Disco tile – sweet!
Love your website! Did two other tile jobs at our home years ago before the web was handy, so now I am rel-educating myself about the new wrinkles…I am planning to use Latricrete SpectraLOCK grout on my newly tiled shower floor and walls. The label says no need to seal, but you seem to think sealing is a good idea…if SpectraLOCK doesn’t stain, then why the sealing?
Thanks for informing and entertaining us DIYers!
Judy
Hi Judy,
I found some new wrinkles myself this morning – wasn’t very happy about it, either.
If you use SpectraLOCK there is no need to seal your tile unless your tile is a natural stone which should be sealed. If regular cementious grout is used it should be sealed to prevent staining. If SpectraLOCK is used there is no need to seal it – it doesn’t stain. If your tile needs to be sealed and you want to use SpectraLOCK – seal the tile before grouting. If your tile needs to be sealed and you use cementious grout – grout first then seal everything.
You did not state what type of tile you have – big state secret, eh?
If it is ceramic or porcelain there is no need to seal it. If it is natural stone then it should be sealed to prevent the tile itself from staining.
Jesus, I think I just confused myself…
Hi Roger,
You made me laugh out loud with your reply…Who thought tiling a bathroom would be this entertaining?
Anyway, the tile is 12×12 porcelain, with a matte finish, for the floor with 1/8 inch grout lines, and the same size (12×12) tiles for the shower surround with a 12-inch listello at eye level that I am going to make with some strips of half-inch glass and stone mosaics, and 6×6 porcelain tiles set on the diagonal. I plan to use a 1/16 inch grout line for the wall. If I use Laticrete for the wall, too, will it scratch the glass mosaics (the warning on the Laticrete label has me worried)? Since the grout is a light color and stains would show over time, I hope I can use the Laticrete, but maybe I would be better off with an unsanded grout for the wall. If I go that route, I could add the Grout Boost you talked about in an earlier post. WWRD? (What Would Roger Do?)
And another question! Since I don’t have to seal the porcelain tiles, should I bother sealing the little half-inch stone mosaics? (I am using an inch strip of the mosaics on the top and bottom of the listello — and the mosaic is mostly glass. Every fourth mosaic is stone — looks like tavertine).
Thanks for your suggestions!
Judy
Hey Judy,
I thought tiling a bathroom would be entertaining – man was I wrong! So I went ahead and made it entertaining anyway.
You can use the Laticrete – it won’t scratch the glass. They put that on the label to cover their ass – I don’t need my ass covered. By the way – Roger WOULD NOT use grout boost – hate it. That’s just me, though. I know a lot of professionals that use it a lot so it’s just a personal thing. I really don’t think it’s a good product for a do-it-yourselfer though.
You can seal every fourth mosaic.
Hello Roger,
I put in a comment to your website several weeks ago about installing granite and using Laticrete Spectraloc. I’m afraid our installer turned out to be not all that good.
First, our tiles are bevelled and the grout lines between them range from 3/16 to 1/4 inch. Second, he grouted today, did the first rinse- not very well- and then forgot to do the second rinse. I came home and saw the final rinse package on the floor. I dissolved it and rinsed with the second rinse as best as I could. Now I see very small epoxy marks on the granite floor. Any ideas on how take those off?
Thanks.
Great, another hack callin’ himself a tile contractor. When you swing the baseball bat please take a swing for me. 3/16 – 1/4″ grout lines in granite?????
Hot water mixed with either white vinegar or, if that doesn’t work, hot water mixed with powdered laundry detergent. If those don’t work I have had luck with super-glue remover. Really.
Hello Roger,
We are also using granite tiles 12″X12″ in the showers. We made up our minds that we want to go with Spectra lock for grout. I heard that we need to clean tiles with special cleaners after applying grout. Other wise it will leave a film of haze. Is this true? If so, what type of cleaner it is and can I purchase in home improvement stores like home depot or lowes
Thanks for your comments and suggestions
Madhavi Rao
Hi Madhavi,
The cleaners are simply powdered soap similar to a non-scented laundry detergent. They actually are included with your grout so you don’t need to worry about finding them.
These cleaners are also not really required to remove the haze, they simply make it easier.
Thank you very much. I will let you know how my project turns out.
Hello Roger,
We final finished the showers and look awesome. Now that’s done my friends tell me that cleaning black granite is not easy. As we can see water spots or mineral deposits. Is there any specific cleaner or product that I can use to clean my shower to maintain its new looks.
Hi Madhavi, Where are my pictures?
Cleaning black granite is just as easy as cleaning any other granite. The difference is that other colors don’t show every microscopic particle of dust – black granite does. MY friends would have told me that BEFORE I installed it – just sayin’.
(I’ll quit being a jackass now.)
The two best things you can do for a black granite shower are:
Use a water softener or filter for your water so there aren’t as many minerals left after it evaporates. Not really practical after the fact but maybe something to think about for the future.
The best thing with black granite, or any tile shower, is to keep a squeegee in the shower and dry down the walls after every shower. This does a couple of things. As well as minimizing mineral deposits or water spots it will also allow your shower to dry out more quickly and make cleaning it much, much easier. When dry water and soap deposits cannot harden so they simply don’t become a problem.
A couple of coats of a really good sealer will also minimize the amount of water left on the surface to evaporate there.
When cleaning you want to use a non-ph cleaner. These are available at the big box stores and are sold in the tile department as a stone specific cleaner. Although it won’t help much with daily water spots it is better for deep cleaning the granite – no harsh chemicals.
Hope that helps.
Peter, thanks for your reply. So you used Spectralock on polished honey onyx and didn’t scratch it? That’s good news. I bought a bucket of unsanded Mapei grout at Lowes to try out because here, on the West coast, they apparently doesn’t carry Spactralock anymore. I guess I am going to have to order Spectralock online.
One more question since you seem to know a thing or two about onyx. Sealer. I was told to buy Premium Plus to use on both polished and tumbled onyx (I have both in my bathroom). Again, Lowes didn’t carry it. I bought Dupont’s premium sealer for stone. Is it OK to use, or would you recommend something else? Thanks again! Alla
Apologies, when I wrote Peter, I, of course, meant Roger!
Hi Alla,
Don’t worry one bit about calling me Peter, believe me when I say I’ve been called worse.
Lowe’s is currently in the process of phasing out several products. Spectralock is one and certain sealers are another. You’re batting 1000. You can always get the Spectralock online. If you can find it get the ‘pro’ version, not much difference but comes with more goodies.
Not certain which particular sealer you are speaking of but if it is made by DuPont you can be fairly certain its good stuff. They are the company that makes the StoneTech sealers I recommend all the time. You should be fine with that.
If you do end up using Spectralock it would probably be much, much easier for you to seal the onyx first, wait a day, then go ahead and grout it. That’s what I would probably do.
Spectralock never needs to be sealed (its bulletproof) so you are simply reversing the two steps and saving a day or two. If you were to grout first you would have to wait before sealing. Do it backwards and skip that part since the grout doesn’t need sealing. This will assist in cleaning the grout off of the tile face also – its a win-win.
I have used Spectralock on onyx several times and have never had a problem. As I’ve previously stated, though, always test everything on a scrap piece or in a spot that won’t be seen. Nothing like ruining four thousand dollars worth of Italian marble because you didn’t test the effects of the sealer.
That is, of course, a hypothetical. I would never do anything like that to Italian Marble. (Again…)
Hello Roger,
10yrs later….wondering if the advice here still applies for honey onyx tile installation (product recommendations specifically)?
I ended up here bc I just ordered 4×4 honey onyx tiles for my 36×36 shower floor and now am looking into grout options.
I’ve just about ready everything on this thread relating to honey onyx.
10yrs later, do you still recommend DuPont heavy duty sealer followed by Spectralock epoxy thinset? Or is there an updated solution?
And also, I’m gathering from all the messages that epoxy is not easy to use but, not impossible – is there a better/easier solution for honey onyx not to lose its hue?
Also my first time…?
THANK YOU!
Hi Marie,
Yes, it still applies. There are newer single-component grouts out now that will work with your onyx just as well as the spectralock, although spectralock is still an excellent choice. Being as it is your shower floor I would definitely stick with the spectralock, as there have been a LOT of issues with single component grouts on shower floors. It may be better now, but I swore them off once I had to replace a floor with a grout failure.
Single component grouts used to be known as the ‘premixed’ grouts, or the ready to go grouts. They are sold in a bucket already premixed and you just pop open the bucket and grout, no need to mix with anything. The newer technologies integrated into them may very well work in shower floors, but almost ALL the pros I talk to, myself included (because I do talk to myself a lot…) refuse to use any of them in shower floors.
Thanks for the response! I plan on installing the shower tile floor over DITRA HEAT membrane which will go over a presloped shower pan [system]. Does Spectralock work over DITRA? Also, have you used SPECTRALOCK® PRO Premium Translucent Grout? Or any of the Dazzle products from the line? Wondering if the shimmer might enhance the translucence of the honey onyx or would translucent grout be enough? Also, would Dazzle just scratch?
Alternatively, just saw your reply to Kathleen that CEG-Lite is easier to work with. Is the quality of Spectralock still superior?
Thank you!
Spectralock is superior in that application. I have used nearly everything having to do with spectralock. The dazzle would likely enhance it nicely. I’ve never used it on onyx but I have used it on marble without scratching issues. Always test a piece first to ensure it, but I don’t think there would be an issue with it at all. Yes, it does fine over ditra and ditra heat.
Hello Roger,
You state that you recommend the DuPont sealer for the onyx. Which one should we use, as they have regular, heavy duty and bullet proof? Thanks again!
Elizabeth
Hey Elizabeth,
For onyx I would use the heavy duty. I’m not real fond of the regular (no real reason, the heavy duty just has more uses than the regular) and the bullet proof may be overkill for the density of onyx. If you wanted to use the bullet proof, though, it wouldn’t hurt at all.
Hi Roger,
Thanks for your very helpful tips. I am installing polished onyx tiles in the bathroom – on the walls and in the shower. I was hoping to use Spectralock grout – it worked great in our second bathroom, hasn’t changed colors or stained in years. Should I not use Spectralock because it will scratch the onyx? If I don’t use it, can you recommend a non-sanded grout that is stain/mold resistant? Thank you!
Hey Alla,
Absolutely you can, and indeed should, use Laticrete’s Spectralock for your bathroom. The ‘sand’ in Spectralock is actually more of a powder consistency. I have used it on various colors of onyx without any problems at all.
If you want epoxy grout Spectralock is the only way to go! It is the only epoxy I use – really. And I’m not even being a smart ass. (This time)
Hello Roger,
My husband and I have done several large tile installs in our home, including working with slate. Our next venture is the master bath. We are planning to use honey onyx and hoping to put in an arch on the shower wall using the chair-rail. I am concerned about the difficulty cutting them to fit and think we should just square it off instead, but my husband loves the look and wants to give it a try. Can you give us an idea on what to expect?
Hi Elizabeth,
Cutting radius arches isn’t nearly as bad as you may believe. The most important part is simply taking your time to get the cuts perfect.
The easiest thing to do would be to cut a template board out of cardboard after you get the niche framed in and shaped. Get the template cut exactly to the correct size so it fits perfectly inside the niche opening. You can then lay it on a table or on the floor and do all your cuts there without worrying about dropping everything like I tend to do.
After that start with the piece directly at the top of the niche – place it horizontally at the top of the arch and place the two pieces next to it and mark your cuts. You may want to start by making the cuts a little large. It’s always easier to cut more off than cut moron – knowwhatimean?
Once you get those to where they fit together perfectly just work your way down one side cutting one piece at a time then down the other side. Once you get them so they fit around your template correctly you can simply number them and install them onto your niche in the shower.
Free tip! Get a roll of one-inch wide blue painters tape and tape the crap out of it while the thinset cures. Make sure any pieces you are taping to are completely dry or the tape won’t stick. By doing this you can ensure that they stay exactly where you place them.
If they are honey onyx chair rails make sure you cut them VERY SLOWLY on the wet saw and be careful with the corners – they are very fragile.
Another free tip! (I’m on a roll, what the hell?) Cut strips of duct tape the width of your chair rails and place them firmly on the back of the chair rails before you start working with them. This will assist in preventing chips and cracks the honey onyx is so fond of. You can just leave it on there until you are ready to install them in the niche. You can cut through it on the wet saw and everything. When you do peel it off start at the smallest corner or most fragile spot and do it slowly.
Hope that helps. If you have any more questions please don’t hesitate to ask!
Roger — thanks for all of the helpful information. Here’s my question:
– I am installing a mosaic floor, made of 3/8″ x 3/8″ honed limestone;
– The mosaic pieces are mounted on fiberglass mess abutting one another;
– The grout lines are therefore minimal, but irregular, ranging from nothing to up to 1/16 or so
– As per the folks at laticrete, they have advised that i cannot used spectralock because it does have some sand in it and therefore won’t fill the small, irregular gaps.
Question: what is the best grout to use if my objective is to have as little staining as possible over the years?
thanks!.
Hi Tony, You have a couple of options available.
The first is – use spectralock.
The “sand” in it is actually a lot more like a powder. I have used spectralock in mosaic pieces that were spaced as you are describing and didn’t have a problem with it. You just have to make sure you work it into the lines really well.
If you choose not to do that you can use regular non-sanded grout and seal it with a good penetrating sealer after it cures. That would minimize your staining as that is actually what sealer is made for. Sealer must be re-applied every 18-24 months depending on the amount of traffic – it wears off. Keep that in mind if you choose to go that route.
There is also a product called grout boost. I HAVE NOT USED THIS PRODUCT so I cannot really vouch for the durability of it. Installers I’ve talked to that have used it tell me it is fairly simple to use and cleans up well (after grouting). However, that gives me no information about the durability or stain blocking properties of this product. It depends on how much you want to trust the claims made by the company.
Hi,
I am a tiling novice. My wife and I purchased some 12″ onyx tiles for a small hearth. The hearth is about 3 inches high, 5 feet wide and 18 inches deep. The raised hearth is constructed of plywood and will be covered with a backer board. I noticed after purchasing the tile that it is recommended to use epoxy thin set. Being a novice I really don’t want to use the epoxy unless it is absolutely necessary. Can I use a non epoxy thin set? If yes, do you have any recommendations? Also can I use a non sanded grout? Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Paul,
The recommendation on the box is directly from the manufacturer and should always be followed. The manufacturers rarely specify a setting material unless there is a reason and the fact that it is onyx is a good reason.
Onyx tile is almost like glass in regards to the amount that humidity changes will cause it to expand and contract – it’s quite a bit. An epoxy setting material will hold it in place as it goes through these expansion and contraction phases, a regular thinset would eventually lose its bond.
The other reason it is frequently recommended for onyx is the bonding property. An epoxy will chemically bond to the onyx whereas a regular thinset would simply hold it in place for a little while. I know that’s kind of difficult to understand, think of using regular thinset akin to gluing something onto a window with Elmer’s glue, it will hold for a little while but eventually will come off and it can always be easily peeled off. The onyx is just like glass in that respect.
Epoxy thinset is actually not really that difficult to use. Just follow the instructions to the letter and make sure you have everything else you DON’T want epoxy on covered up or taped. Just tape off everything around your hearth and go to town.
Yes, in fact you should use unsanded grout with onyx – sanded grout will scratch the surface.
If you have a lighter onyx make sure you use a white epoxy thinset. Onyx is a translucent stone and will telegraph the colors beneath it. If you have white onyx use white setting materials, if you have dark use gray, etc.
Hope that helps, I know it’s not what you wanted to hear. If you have any more questions please don’t hesitate to ask.
I’ve bitten off a big challenge, and decided to add my own backsplash after a new granite kitchen countertop goes in in a couple of weeks. I found some lovely basketweave honey onyx tiles (a mosaic on mesh) that goes perfectly. In researching how best to proceed, I see that there are difficulties in selecting a grout that will not discolor or mar the translucency and golden tone of the tiles. Should I send the tile back and go ahead and have a granite backsplash, or is there a way to preserve the tile that I’ve purchased? Is epoxy grout the solution? Any advice is welcomed. Certainly, shipping the package back to the manufacturer will be cheaper than a fatal mistake. The tile, on the other hand is lovely. http://www.amazon.com/Honey-Polished-Basketweave-Mosaic-Black/dp/B0052Y7WBE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1317161744&sr=8-2
Ideas?
Hi Diane,
The problem with grouting honey onyx is that any grout color is going to cut down the luminescence of the stone. When ungrouted light reflects into the stone from the sides as well as the top. When you grout the amount of light is cut down significantly. The best thing to do is use the lightest color of grout you can find that looks good with the tile. You may also want to grout a piece of it before you install it to make sure you are happy with the choice. The grout doesn’t change the color of the stone – it only limits the amount of light from the sides of each piece.
Roger, I am installing a granite (12x12x3/8) kitchen countertop (DIY 1st time) for my daughter and have reached the grout type/size stage prior to cutting the tiles. I have laid out the tiles on the backer (Densguard) using 1/32″ spacers and everything looks good. I tried your suggestion of measuring the diagonals of a square tile section (2 x 2 tiles) without spacers and I measured about +/- 1/16″ difference, so, I think I am OK. The questions: if I continue with 1/32″ or change to 1/16″, I would like to use an epoxy grout (Spectralock or Mapei Opticolor) but neither manufacturer recommends 1/32″ and I have read elsewhere that the epoxys tend to get in the granite surfaces and are difficult to remove. What would you recommend? Oops, one more question; will the epoxy grout withstand occasional high heat, e.g. pan placed on the tile?
Hi Jay,
With most granite tile you are fine with a 1/32″ but keep in mind it is difficult to get it to look really good. With grout lines that small it must be installed perfectly. To be honest you may want to switch to a 1/16 which looks just fine as long as you take your time with it.
I would use the Spectralock, it’s MUCH easier to work with. The issue with getting into the surface of the granite probably refers to a non-polished granite or an epoxy which is very difficult to work with. If you use the Spectralock it’s not really an issue. Just follow the directions exactly, really, follow the directions. I know, I’m a guy too, but it really works.
There are specific timelines to follow with each cleaning while you are grouting.
Yes, epoxy is not affected by occasional high heat such as a hot pan placed on the counter.