Installing cement backerboard is one of the more popular choices for a shower wall substrate. Cement backerboards include Hardiebacker, Durock, Fiberboard, wonderboard, and similar products. These materials bridge the gap between expense and effectiveness. When installed properly they will give you many, many years of durable shower construction.

The advantage of cement backerboards is that, while not waterproof, they are dimensionally stable when wet. That just means that when they get wet they do not swell up. Any swelling behind tile is a bad thing. It will lead to cracking grout, tile, and all sorts of bad things.

Waterproofing your studs

To install the backerboard you must have a vapor barrier between it and the wooden wall studs. While the backerboard will not swell when wet, your wall studs will. You must prevent any moisture from reaching them. The preferred material for a vapor barrier would be 4 mil or thicker plastic sheeting which can be purchased at places like Home Depot or any hardware store. You can also use tar paper or roofing paper, the thick black paper used under shingles. Although I personally do not use that, it is an acceptable barrier.

Starting with your bare wall studs on your shower walls simply take your plastic sheeting and staple it to the wall studs completely covering the entire surface which will be inside your shower. You can also use silicone instead of staples to adhere it to the studs. Make sure you overlap all the edges. Just hang it all up there like you’re hanging wallpaper. You want it covering the framing enough that if you were to spray the walls with a hose the wall studs and framing would not get wet.

At the bottom of the barrier you will want it to overlap on the shower side of the tub or shower base. That is you want it so that any water that runs down the plastic sheeting will roll off into the tub rather than behind the tub. Overlap the lip of the tub or base and silicone the back of the barrier to keep it in place.

Installing the backerboard

Now for the backerboard. Lay out your backerboards for the best fit on the walls. They can go up vertically or horizontally, it makes no difference. With a regular tub surround with a five foot back wall it is usually easier to use two horizontal sheets along the back wall and one vertical on each of the sides. (This assumes 3 X 5 foot backerboard sheets.)

All backerboards are cut by scoring and snapping. You do not need a saw for them. While there are special scoring tools specifically for this you can easily do it with a regular utility knife. While all these backerboards are essentially identical in their effectiveness as a substrate, some are more easily cut. Durock, in my opinion, is the most difficult. I personally prefer hardiebacker or fiberboard. Make sure you check the website for whichever you choose for specific instructions.

To fasten the backerboard to the framing you have a couple of choices. A lot of professionals simply use galvanized roofing nails. While this is perfectly acceptable, I prefer screws over nails when possible. Hardi makes specific screws for their backerboard which can also be used for all backerboards. These are manufactured with ribs beneath the head of the screw which help it cut into the backerboard and countersink so the head is flush. If your local big box or hardware store carries them, they will be in the tile section. You can also use just about any type of corrosion resistant screw. Anything that can be used for an outside deck can be used for your backerboard.

Fasten your backerboard to your shower framing with a screw or nail about every 8 – 12 inches. I would also suggest using a straight-edge along your wall while doing this so that you can shim out any areas where the wall studs may not be straight. The flatter your backerboard is installed, the easier your tile installation will be. Take your time, the beer isn’t going anywhere.

Allow for movement!

You do not want to butt the backerboards against one another. You need to leave a small gap at every change of plane. That includes corners, walls to ceilings, and walls to tubs or floors. There needs to be room for expansion and contraction.

Wood moves – always. It’s just a fact of life. The secret to dealing with the movement is to ensure the movement will not interfere with the tile. Leaving this small gap will allow for movement of the sheets enough so that they do not force against one another and push out. While the backerboard itself is very stable, you are still attaching it to wood.

If you have a tub or shower base you will also want to stop the backerboard about 1/8 inch above the lip. You do not want to run the board over the edge of the lip because it will cause the backerboard to bow out and your wall will not be flat. It will also allow the tub or shower base to move a bit – it’s attached to the wooden studs as well. Tubs also move when they are filled with water. You need to allow for that movement.

I usually leave about a 1/16 to 1/8 inch gap between the sheets of backerboard. This allows for thinset to lock into the entire thickness of your backerboard when you tape and mud your seams. We’ll cover that part in a minute.

Don’t allow for movement! (Confused yet?)

If your shower framing is such that you cannot place the edges of all the backerboards directly over a stud you will need to add more studs. You may do this with regular 2 X 4’s screwed to the present framing vertically or horizontally as needed. You must make sure that every edge of the backerboard is supported so if the wall is pushed or leaned on in that spot it does not move. You want solid walls.

Final step

The last thing you must do is mud and tape your seams. Similar to regular drywall all of your in-plane  joints must be taped. To do this you just use regular thinset and alkali-resistant fiberglass mesh tape. You can find the tape in the tile section – it’s similar to regular fiberglass drywall tape, but it specifically manufactured to be alkali resistant. Make sure it is alkali-resistant because your thinset contains alkali which will gradually erode regular tape thus defeating the purpose.

There are two ways to address the corners. The industry standard, and the way you should do it, is to tape and mud the corner joint as well. Most backerboard manufacturers recommend this, as do the handbook standards. I only do that about half the time – I’m a rebel like that. 8)

*The other half of the time I only tape and mud the in-plane joints – the gaps in the same wall, not the corners. With the corners I fill the gap with silicone. I do this to allow the different planes of the walls to move in different directions, which they will do whether you like it or not. Allowing this movement in the substrate compensates for excess stress in certain applications. This is something that I do, it is not industry standard and you will likely not find anyone else recommending doing this. So when you get the conflicting information about this – that’s why. :D

Fill all the gaps in your seams with thinset (you left gaps there, right?) then embed the tape into it. Then go over the tape with more thinset to smooth everything out. This will lock everything together and give you a continuous, solid substrate for your tile. That’s what you’re looking for.

When properly installed cement backerboards will create a rock solid, extremely durable substrate for your tile installation. Taking time and care to solidify what is behind or beneath your tile is the only way to guarantee a lasting installation. Your tile is only as durable as what it is installed upon.

As always if you have any questions at all please feel free to leave a comment.

Hardiebacker Website

Durock Website

Need More Information?

I now have manuals describing the complete process for you from bare wall studs all the way up to a completely waterproof shower substrate for your tile. If you are tiling your walls and floor you can find that one here: Waterproof shower floor and wall manual.

If you have a tub or pre-formed shower base and are only tiling the walls you can find that one here: Waterproof shower walls manual.

{ 1495 comments… add one }

Leave a Comment

 
  • ShawnyB

    Hi Roger,

    Great Site. Presently my wife disagrees with me as everytime I pull it up to check something I end up with my face glued to the computer for several hours … the threads are addicting.

    I haven’t seen an answer to this one yet … but of course I could have missed it.  In a recent whole house renovation we left the master bath unfinished (lack of funds).  The contractor left the walk in shower unfinished except for the ceiling in which they installed drywall and plaster.  I’m using Durock on the walls but would like to tile the ceiling as well.  Can I use thinset to adhere the tiles directly to the ceiling plaster without any type of waterproofing ?

    One other question – I purchased a pre-formed (foam ??) niche.  According to the installation instructions I just cut an opening in the Durock, seal the joints and tile directly to it.  I’m a little concerned about this as there doesn’t seem to be any type of waterproofing or vapor barrier ?  Any suggestions ??

    Thanks for all the tips

    ShawnyB (FNG)

    • Roger

      Hey Shawny,

      While it is always best to waterproof the ceiling as well you can tile the ceiling without it. Regular thinset will work fine.

      Most of the pre-formed niches are made from a waterproof material. You do need to seal the moisture barrier to the back of the cement board on the wall to create a dam around the opening, but sealing the niche in there will waterproof the entire niche just fine.

      • ShawnyB

        Hey Roger,

        Forgot to mention that the ceiling has already been primed and painted with a finish coat.  Do you think that will have any affect on the ability of the thinset to hold the tiles to the ceiling ?? 

        As far as waterproofing the ceiling could I just paint a coat of redgard over the existing (painted) ceiling prior to the thinset and tiles ??

        Lastly – do you see any problem coating the pre-formed niche with redgard ??

        • Roger

          The surface of the paint should be scuffed up (just use sandpaper). You can then install either the redgard (which would be fine) or just tile directly to it. Yes, you can coat the niche with redgard – it won’t hurt anything.

  • debra brosig

    Hello, I’m remodeling my bathroom and the exsisting set up was green board over sheetrock.  I cut out all of the exsisting tile, green board and sheetrock so I am down to studs on all three sides. I just put in a new cast iron tub and there is no thin lip to put your backer board over.  I have a couple of questions.. I was told you need to score the bottom on the backside of your backer board maybe a 1/4″ to provide coverage over the bathtub lip while allowing the gap needed between the backer board and tub to prevent wicking or can it just rest a 1/16″ above the tub? Which method would you suggest?  Second question.. At the back of the tub there is a 1/2″ gap that needs to be filled in order for my backer board to be flush with my exsisting sheetrock. What is the best way to close this gap? Stacking 2 layers of backing board or 1/2″ spacer’s on the studs? Third question… I plan to install the plastic sheeting to keep my studs dry.  Should I use silicone at the bottom to make them adhere to the tub? Any input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

    • Roger

      Hi Debra,

      The best way to bump out the wall is to use 1/2″ furring strips or shims over the studs. The plastic sheeting then goes over it down to the top of the tub. Leave it long enough to fold onto the tub a bit and silicone the back of it to the tub. The backer can just rest 1/16″ above the edge of the tub.

  • fazil

    Hello,

    I started to a project to regrout my shower last june – yes 2011. During “the grout removal phase” (my wife honestly belives this is a pase), I removed a broken tile from the botton crner of the wall. I found that the drywall behine it was completely dintegrated. I broke 3 additional tiles and everything seems fine at the 4 tile. I also found that the kerb was leaking – removed those tiles as well.
    So I am thinking that I can replce jus 1 clumn of 3 tiles on the wall – or should I tear up the entre wall 3 tiles high?
    Additionally, I can see the base membrane when I opened up the wall – i do not plan to remove the shower base. How can I go about fixing the wall?
    I imagine I will have to install the barrier, the backerboard and the tiles like you mentioned here?

    • Roger

      Hi Fazil,

      You’ll need to remove the tile at least up to right above where the liner ends and install some cement backerboard there as your tile substrate as I’ve described above. If the curb was leaking then the entire curb really needs to be rebuilt properly – it is the most common area for shower failures and can cause considerable damage that you won’t even see before it’s too late.

      • fazil

        Roger.

        Thanks for your prompt response. A question about tiling the floor and the corners. Do I allow the tiles to sit on the floor, or should there be a space there? How about where the wall meet, should I grout the cornors or just silicone?

        I have seen videos where they use a 2×4 to create a starting point for the wall tiles – starting at the 2nd row. Is this the recommended method? So the bottom row is the last to be installed? why is that so?

        • Roger

          There should be a 1/16″ gap between the floor and wall tiles and that gets filled with silicone. Any change of plane needs silicone – grout will crack.

          What you are describing is a ledger board. If you do your floor first you can just start right from the floor. Some people use them to ensure a level line all the way around, I just draw a line (actually use my laser) all the way around the shower and cut my bottom row of tiles to it.

  • chuck

    Hello, and thanks for the helpful instructions. I’m planning to demo my current shower, take out a shower pan, make new concrete shower pan, and then re-tile the shower. Is is correct to assume that the backerboard should be put down on the floor and walls, and then build the new shower pan on top of the backerboard?
     
    thanks,
    Chuck

    • Roger

      Hey Chuck,

      No need to backer on your floor if the floor is solid and stable. You can go right over the plywood. Make sure you do put down roofing felt or plastic and metal lath, though.

  • doroteo arango

    Sir:
    Which of the two cement boards would you recommend to install tiles on: Hardibacker or Durarock?, are there any significant difference among them or is it just a matter of professional preference?
    Regards
    Doroteo

    • Roger

      I prefer hardibacker. It’s cleaner and easier to work with. Durock is messy. Fiberboard or wonderboard are also good.

  • Jeremy

    Hello.. which side of the hardibacker do I tile on? There’s a rough side and a smooth side. I was planning to use Redgard over the hardibacker then tile on top of that. Thanks!

    • Roger

      Hey Jeremy,

      Both are acceptable but hardi recommends the smooth side for the tile. The smooth side also works better for redgard.

  • Leah

    Roger
    Really – I don’t have to seal the grout?  Well what will happen if I don’t seal the grout?  Have you ever not sealed the grout?  I didn’t seal the grout in my kitchen backsplash but it isn’t under constant water abuse?  Believe me, if it is a step I can skip with no consequensces I wil so as to have my tub back a bit sooner.  I have put all my faith and trust in you and your site Roger. I find myself looking forward to reading you every night for knowledge and of course a few laughs.  What should I do – seal or not?  I just want to sleep well at night (like that ever happens anymore, can’t even remember the last time) knowing I did my best at doing it right.
    Thanks

    • Roger

      Really, you don’t have to seal the grout. I don’t seal the grout all the time. :D

      Your confusion likely derives from the VERY rampant misconception that sealer is required for, or somehow assists with, waterproofing – it does not. Sealer is to help your grout resist stains – that’s it. It is not sold for waterproofing and is not approved for waterproofing. It simply gives you more time to clean up things like cherry kool-aid before it soaks into the grout. That’s it. Really. You can seal it if you want, but it’s not needed.

  • Leah

    Roger,

    As I sit here with my feet soaking in a pan of water because it is now more than two weeks without a tub or shower and I didn’t feel like running to my daughters tonight to shower I thought I might ask you a few more questions.  We, that is me and my other (he’s not better) half have started the tile job in the bath/shower alcove.  OMG!  Can’t believe you or anyone would want to do this for a living.  I have learned about lippage, (don’t know how you put the thinset on in a uniform thickness), uneven grout lines, (will bathe and shower with my eyes closed), that 1/16 is almost impossible to work with, (and so is Bob when he won’t listen to me).  Anyways, we will be grouting with nonsanded grout (sometime this month I hope), around glazed porcelain tile.  Please tell me I do not have to seal the tile!!  But if I do, do tell me.  But I know I have to seal the grout and I don’t know what to use.  The tile I picked of course does not have a bullnose to finish the edge.  Any ideas you can share on how to finish the edge where it meets the rest of the bathroom walls past the tub?  I am sure you are either in bed or having an adult beverage now so I won’t expect an answer from you right away.  That will be ok because unfortunately we are not moving very fast on this project.  Just a bit over our heads here.  But when it’s all done we can say we did it.  I won’t be sending you any pictures for fear you would post them on your flawed page!  Thanks again for all you do for us DIYers out here.

    Leah

    • Roger

      Hey Leah,

      I’m never in bed. :D

      You do not have to seal the tile. You don’t even have to seal the grout if you don’t want to – really. If you do want to I use Miracle Sealant’s 511 impregnator pro – good stuff. Spray it on and wipe it off – be careful of haze – and WEAR A RESPIRATOR OR MASK, you don’t wanna breathe in that stuff.

      The edges can have a stone pencil rail or other trim piece installed against it to finish it off. You can also use one of schluter’s metal trims if you like those.

  • Guy

    I’m gutting my bathroom and installing a new tub, the tile doesn’t go up to the ceiling, should the backerboard go up to the ceiling or should it stop and greenboard goes up to the ceiling? If it does stop and greenboard is used, where should the backerboard stop and the greenboard start? Would this happen above, below or right at the line where the tiles stop?

    • Roger

      You can do it either way. If you use the greenboard it should start one inch beneath where the tile stops. You can prime and paint the backer if you go that route.

  • Nickie

    Hi Roger found you site just in time. I am in a mess. I’m in a mobile home and I have a very small square plastic basin shower of 32″ with 27″ inside for standing room where the doors come together in a V. It is to small and I want a bigger walkin shower. So I rip it out today. This little shower was sitting in a space of 54×30″, with all that wasted space.  Oh and by the way the whole bathroom is the plastic wall you put in bathroom and kitchens, so that would be my shower walls. Anyway, I want to tlle that whole floor area for my walkin shower. So I put down 3/4 plywood for the new floor and chaulk all the way around the edges up next to the plastic walls and my 2×4 which is in the front of the length of 54″ for the lip to step over into the shower and keep the water in which I will tile over and around it too. I am ready to put in the backer board in and I want to know if I should put the vinyl on top of the plywood before the backer board ?? And then should I chaulk around all the edges of it too?? Then should I put the vinyl on top of the backer board also before I put the thin set, tile and grout??  HELP HELP. :?:   

  • JL

    What tool do I use to make the circle holes for the shower plumbing stuff?  Should I cut before I put up the hardie or measure and cut and then put it up?  Getting close to be ready to tile now….thank God!!!!

    • Roger

      For the small ones you can get a tile hole-saw bit. For the larger ones you can use a scoring tool and razor knife or a carbide-embedded hole saw. Cut them first then install them.

  • Jane

    Concerning Permabase on the walls for your wainscot. I said that we needed to silicone where it meets the floor. David says I’m wasting silicone. You would only silicone the tile on the walls to the tile on the floor where they meet. For some reason, I don’t think this is correct. Found out the entire wall on the other side of the exposed studs (our master bathroom) is PLYWOOD. I have the previous owner’s number, but didn’t leave a message because she probably wouldn’t call me back anyway. Cannot believe the stuff we are uncovering around here.

    • Jane

      Concerning the skylight. What do you recommend for waterproofing? Permabase or purple board? Only an exhaust fan in the room, no window.

      • Roger

        Hey Jane,

        I’d use the permabase. With limited air-flow it will see quite a bit of vapor. Better to have something up there that won’t be affected by it.

        • Jane

          The wainscot question.

          • Roger

            Oh, missed that one. David is correct, you only silicone the tile to the floor. No need to silicone the permabase to the floor.

    • Jane

      Please answer.

      • Roger

        How much more of an answer would you like Jane?

  • doroteo arango

    Roger:
    I understand that when installing hardibacker cement boards for a walk-in shower I can use 4 mils poly [or better] BEHIND the hardibacker  cement board for water proofing or kerdi membrane in FRONT of the hardibacker, but not both.
    In your experience, which is a better method, leaving aside the obvious short term costs.
     
    Thank you
     
    Doroteo
     

    • Roger

      Hey Doroteo,

      Cost aside the kerdi is the better, more efficient system. With backerboard the board will become saturated (normal) and will retain moisture between showers. Kerdi doesn’t do this since the waterproofing is directly beneath the tile.

  • JL

    I hate to bother you again but I have another question and I think I know the answer but I don’t know the why. 
    can vapor barrier be placed over existing sheetrock and then the hardie board?  Thanks for your answer before hand as I’m sure I’ll get set straight.  JL

    • Roger

      Hey JL,

      Nope, that will lead to wet drywall and eventually mold. The reason has to do with temperature differentiation. When it’s hotter on the inside of the shower wall (in the shower) than it is on the outside (wall cavity) the second law of thermodynamics dictates that nature will attempt to equalize that. One way this happens is condensation coalescing on the plastic. That condensation will not dissipate, it will soak into the sheetrock. Over time this leads to wet sheetrock, which disintegrates and leads to mold.

      Didn’t know there was physics in shower construction, didja? :D

      • JL

        I hate physics……….Thanks.  At least I know there is a sane reason for doing it! JL

  • Jane

    Roger:
     
    I know I’ve seen this on your website, but I can’t remember where. David is getting ready to cut the holes for the shower controls in the Permabase, and he is afraid they will be too large – he needs to have access to the screws. He thinks 3 1/2″ is going to be too large. Although I did see here how to waterproof these openings with silicon, he couldn’t find anything and I don’t know where this was discussed. You answered someone’s question, and I am not as good explaining things like you do so well. I told him that this size opening was no problem because you silicon around these on the cement board and then adhere your tile with thinset over the silicon. He doesn’t want to screw it up, so we’re going to wait for your response. Thanks.

    • Roger

      You want to place a solid bead of silicone around the cutout as you are tiling and install thinset right up to it. Then when you install the tile over it the bead of silicone will seal between the tile and backer. This creates a ‘dam’ around the opening which will divert water. As the water runs down the wall behind the tile it will hit the top of the dam (bead of silicone), run around it, and down into the drain. Just make sure you get a big enough bead in there so you have a solid seal between the back of the tile and the wall.

      Hi David. :dance:

      • Jane

        And do you place this bead right around the opening, as close as you can get to the opening? Right on the edge I guess I mean? You want the silicone to be wet at the time of tiling?

        Also, you saw my pix. Is the insulation we used in the walls sufficient for our topical? It’s an interior room, it’s just for noise sake, not weather.

        • Roger

          Yes, yes, and yes.

          • Jane

            Oh, forgot. David says HI and he’s about ready to clobber me for supervising this project and critiquing his work. You have room for another person on your watch? He just may be ready to move on up to CO by the time he’s done with this.

  • Leah

    Roger,

     Hope you can end the indecision for me.  Do I put up plastic vapor barrier over the studs in my tub/shower alcove or do I paint on redguard over the top of the hardiebacker?  We are so close to this point and I just see too many different ways to do it.  I do not think I need both and am hoping the plastic barrier will be good enough.

     Thank you,

     Leah   

    • Roger

      Hi Leah,

      You do not need, and in fact do not want, both methods. The plastic barrier is sufficient for a normal shower. The redgard is a more efficient system (your wall will not retain water between showers because your waterproofing is directly behind the tile) but the plastic barrier works just fine.

      • Leah

        Hey Roger,

        You make me want to call you Jackass! LOL.  I find your site extremely helpful and very intertaining.  Putting some much needed laughter in my major bathroom project.  Hard to believe that the cheapest, fastest and easiest waterproof method in your manual will work.  Thank God.  I want to enjoy my new bathroom before they move me into a nursing home!  Thank you so much for your help and I hope I may be back with more questions before this is done.  Think your great to help so many of us and think you should go have yourself a beer on me and I will have a Pepsi.  ttyl Have a great night!

        Leah

        • Roger

          Well, since you insist. I’ll tell my wife you demanded I have a beer.

          Thanks. :D

  • Carol dawson

    Roger what is the smalest horizontial gap you can have between 2 1/2″ hardy backer 500 there mabe a place I may need to fix gap is smalli will say finger nail width dont know how hapened.
    thankscarol Dawson

    • Roger

      You can probably get away with 1/16″ or so – as long as you can force thinset into it you’ll be fine. If you can’t it should be adjusted.

  • Jane

    The screw holes in the Permabase, am I mudding and taping those before using the Redgard?

    • Roger

      Doesn’t make any difference. Depends on how OCD you are. :D

      • Jane

        Not so much. When my husband asked our BIL (the contractor) how he puts up a shower, he said he just uses Hardibacker and tiles right to it – doesn’t even waterproof. Glad he’s not doing our shower! Didn’t know shit until I came to your site. Guess I should direct him to yours.

  • Jane

    Above where you say that ‘every edge of the backerboard needs to be supported,’ does this mean that the three going up the back 5′ wall have to have studs along each vertical edge, or is the horizontal stud mid-wall sufficient?

    • Jane

      Meant horizontal edge. There are vertical three vertical studs.

      • Jane

        Not typing too well. Just woke up from a nap.

        • Roger

          I mean that you cannot have two full-length seams (the three-foot ends) unsupported. In larger showers some people have bad habits of placing the boards horizontally and simply butting the ends where they fall – between two studs. If the seams fall between two studs then they need to be supported. That’s all I meant.

          • Jane

            i guess we’re good then. There are two studs mid wall running vertically, and we will trim the Permabase so it follows the tub line. The ceiling is perfectly level.

  • Jane

    Roger:

    The tub is not level and we weren’t going to pull it. One back corner is off by 3/4″ and discovered this when installing the permabase board along the back wall. What should we do to make it as easy as possible?

    • Roger

      You can draw a level line one full tile’s height from the lowest point where the tub dips down. Draw the line all the way around the tub on the wall and cut every tile on the bottom row up to that line. Not all your bottom row tiles will be the same size, but you’ll still have a level tile installation.

      • Jane

        Great, we’ll do that since David completely understand what to do.

  • charles

    can you use a waterproofer roll on app. hot pink in color instead of a plastic vapor barrior behind the hardie backer

    • Roger

      Hey Charles,

      the product to which you are referring is redgard, and yes, you can use it on the face of your backer rather than a barrier behind it.

  • Jane

    Hi Roger:
     
    We have a backer board product available here called Permabase. Can you tell me 1) if this is comparable to Denshield, 2) if Permabase needs to have a topical applied before tiling, 3) if you need to put plastic behind the Permabase so the studs are protected from water? I don’t want to get into a sandwich of mold situation. We can’t really find anything about Permabase, but it’s available at Lowe’s.

    • Roger

      Hi Jane,

      Permabase is a cement backerboard comparable to hardibacker. It IS NOT comparable to denshield. Denshield is waterproof, permabase is not. With permabase you want either a moisture barrier over your studs or a topical membrane over the face of it. One or the other, never both. Either one can be used with permabase.

      • Jane

        Thanks for the quick reply. I think we are going with the plastic on the studs. And that plastic is adhered over the lip of the tub with silicone/caulk behind the Permabase, correct?

        • Roger

          Yes, that’s correct.

  • Alex

    Hi Roger! Your site has been very helpful with my tub surround remodel so far. I am installing hardiebacker and will be applying redguard over the top before tiling. Right now I’ve got the hardiebacker up and am caulking the corners and will mud and tape the seams. I don’t know what to do about the plumbing fixtures, though. I cut 2″ holes in the hardiebacker as openings for the fixtures. Do I need to fill the excess space with caulk or will caulking around the trim pieces after they are installed be sufficient?

    • Roger

      Hey Alex,

      All you need to do is place a big circle of silicone around the hole for the fixtures as you are setting tile. The idea is that this bead of silicone creates a dam so when water runs down the wall it hits that bead of silicone and runs around it and down into the drain. Make the bead thick enough so that when you place your tile up there the bead is sandwiched between the backer (redgard) and the back of the tile.

  • Carol dawson

    Hi Roger it is me again,carol
    I for got to ask I have measured and re measured an at top of tub erea I was running hardy all way up and tile but on pieces al llong the back wall the lenght of tub cieling is not level and filler piece would be too small to cut but too much to leave .I want crown molding all in my house any way would that be good option around whole bath room and if so what typ would you recomend for 8ft cielings.
    Thanks again
    carol dawson

    • Roger

      Hi me again. :D

      There are several natural stone listellos and ‘chair rails’ which can be used as crown molding in a shower. You can also get the styrofoam-based crown molding trim rather than wooden trim. You do not want to put wood trim inside your shower. Although it won’t get directly wet, you’re dealing with a lot of water vapor which will infuse into the wood and eventually swell and crack it. This is especially true of wooden trim pieces which are not made nor manufactured to withstand environmental exposure such as wooden decking would. (Is it just me or are there a lot of variations of ‘wood’ in that last sentence? :D ) Think about your mirror after you take a shower – the same amount of moisture will be on the surface of the wood.

  • Jastin

    Hi Roger,
    Thanks for this awesome site! Thank God I found this when I did. I’m redoing my bathroom and had no idea that just green board wouldn’t work :bonk: . So, after i tear out my green board I’m going to do it the right way :rockon: .
    Question: I’m framing in a small wall right out from my tub ( so I can tile it )  how would I go about sealing that? Just encase the frame in plastic, backerboard it, red guard it, tile it, then silicone between the tile and tub as you would a wall? Would you put the plastic from the frame onto the tub and silicone it? The tile will be a 6×6 on top that would be 4″ on the wall and 2″ on the tub.
    Thanks!

    • Roger

      Hey Jastin,

      You can either frame it around the tub and install backerboard to within about 1/8″ of the tub, silicone that gap, then paint the redgard over the backerboard up to the tub. Or, you can frame it, cover it with plastic siliconing the plastic to the tub itself (imagine spraying the plastic with a hose when your done – the framing should not get wet at all) then install your backerboard then tile.

      You always want either a plastic barrier or redgard – never both. Using both creates two waterproof barriers with your substrate between them. Vapor has no way to dissipate in that scenario and can create problems with mold.