The days of grabbing a three dollar bag of “thinset” and sticking floor tile right to the plywood in a bathroom are long gone (for professionals, anyway). For a proper tile installation you need a proper substrate. One of the most readily available are cement backerboards.  These include products such as Hardiebacker, Durock, Fiberboard, wonderboard and a host of others.

When properly installed on your floor it is an ideal tile substrate for a quality and lasting installation. Notice I said typed “properly installed”? Laying them down on the floor and shooting drywall screws through them does not constitute proper installation.

Choose your weapon. I prefer Hardiebacker or Fiberboard. Whichever you choose make sure you get the proper thickness. With rare exception the 1/2″ variety would be the best choice simply because I like to overbuild stuff. With proper floor framing and deflection ratios, though, you can use 1/4″ to minimize height differences. This is not to say that 1/2″ adds significant sturdiness to your floor – it does not.

Dry fitting Backerboard on floor

Dry fitting Backerboard on floor

You need to realize that cement backerboards, or just about any tile flooring substrate, does not add deflection stability to your floor. That is the up and down movement in your floor when you walk, jump, or use a pogo stick on your floor. The backerboards will not significantly diminish that movement. This needs to be addressed by adjusting your floor joists and framing – not by adding stuff on top of them. If your floor is bouncy without the backerboards it will still be bouncy with them.

Bouncy is not good for tile. (There’s a sentence I never thought I would say type.) I will, however, address deflection ratio in another post.

Start by ‘dry fitting’ all your pieces. This simply means cut and lay your pieces into the room without attaching them. Get all your pieces cut, holes cut out, and doorways undercut to fit and lay everything in there just like it will be when installed. This saves a load of time, mess, and headaches.

Backerboards dry fitted into room

Backerboards dry fitted - notice gaps in seams

The joints in backerboards should be staggered. that just means that none of the seams should line up across the room and no four corners should be placed together. By staggering the seams you add strength to the installation simply by not having a significant weak point in the substrate.

You also want to leave 1/16 to 1/8 inch gap between each sheet – do not butt them together, and around the perimeter. If you butt them together you leave no room for expansion. The backerboard will not expand, but your walls will. If everything is butted tight and your wall expands into the room guess what happens. That’s right, your dog may burst into flames and no one wants that! It will also cause your floor to pop loose and possibly ‘tent’ or peak at the seams.

Beneath the backerboards you need thinset. Just about any thinset will work but you need to have it there. skipping this step virtually eliminates the purpose of preparing your substrate for tile – you may as well go grab that three dollar bag and start setting tile now. You need it – really.

Installing thinset beneath backerboards

Installing thinset beneath backerboards

Now that you have them all laid in there properly pick one side of the room to start on and pull a row out. You should only pull out one row at a time to place thinset beneath. That way you can replace them easier and in the proper position. If you pull out the entire room you may get to the last piece and discover everything has shifted 1/2″ and the last piece needs to be cut again. Not really a big deal but you won’t realize it until the backside of it is covered with thinset and you now need to pull it up, wipe the thinset off the wall from pulling it up, cut it, clean the thinset off your saw, snuff out the flames engulfing your dog (again), and replace it. It’s a bit easier just to pull one row at a time.

You need to trowel thinset onto your floor. I cannot overemphasize this (well, I could but you’d get sick of hearing it). This step is imperative for a proper tile installation. The thinset is not meant to ‘stick down’, adhere, or otherwise attach your backerboard to your subfloor. It is simply put in place to eliminate voids beneath your backerboard. Once laid into the thinset bed the floor becomes a solid, fully supported substrate for your tile – that’s what you want.

If you have an air pocket or some certain spot in your floor that is not level or flat with the surrounding area and you simply screw your backerboard onto it this will create a weak spot in your floor. Constantly stepping on that spot will, over time, loosen the screw and your floor will move.

When your floor moves your grout cracks. When your grout cracks your tile may become loose. When your tile becomes loose your tile may crack. When your tile cracks your dog will burst into flames – again. Put thinset beneath your backerboard. And put your dog out.

Installing thinset beneath backerboards

Installing thinset beneath backerboards

Once you have the area fully covered with thinset you can lay your backerboards into the bed of thinset and screw it down. DO NOT use drywall screws! Let me repeat that – THAT! Drywall screws are not made, nor are they sturdy enough for your flooring. You will either bust the heads of the screws off or be unable to countersink them into the backerboard. Hard to get a tile to lay flat over the head of a screw.

There are screws made specifically for cement backerboards. You should be able to find them at any hardware or big box store. They have grooves on the underside of the head which will dig into the backerboard and create its own ‘hole’ in which to countersink the head as it is screwed in. How cool is that?  If you look closely at the photo you can see the ‘grooves’ beneath the head. They are more expensive than drywall screws – just so you know. But you need to use them.

Backerboard screw packEach manufacturer has their own specific spacing instructions for screwing down the backerboards – follow them – really. Some say every 12″ and some want every 6 – 8 inches. The board you use will determine the spacing. (And its right there on the sticker so don’t tell me you couldn’t find it.)

Start your screws in the center of the board and work out. This eliminates undue stresses on the boards. If you screw all the way around the outside and it is not perfectly flat you are going to have to release that pressure somewhere and it

Backerboard screw

Backerboard screw

won’t happen until you have all that pretty tile on top of it. Working from the center out eliminates that. It would probably never, ever be a problem but if you’re anything like me your installation would be the millionth one for that one in a million occurrence.

Backerboard placed into thinset and screwed down

Backerboard placed into thinset and screwed down

Your floor is probably too thick (should be) for the backer screw to actually penetrate into the floor joist. If not, or just to be safe, do not place screws into the area above the floor joists. The plywood or chipboard which makes up your floor will expand and contract at a different rate and, more than likely, in different directions than your joists. If you screw your backer into the ply and into the joist six inches over it will cause inconsistent movement – no good. Do not screw your backerboard into your joists.

After I have all my floor down I will go back and double the screws around every seam. Just put another screw between every screw along the seams. It helps me sleep better at night.

The last thing you need to do is tape your seams. Get an ‘alkali resistant’ mesh tape – similar to drywall tape – and place it over all your seams in your floor. Then mix up some thinset and trowel it over the tape with the flat side of your trowel. Just like taping and mudding drywall. This will make your floor one large monolithic structure and lock it all together. You want alkali resistant tape so it will not break down due to chemicals present in most thinsets. I do not have photos of this because I do it as I set tile.

That’s it! Congratulations, you now have a perfect floor for your perfect tile installation. When installing floor tile – or any tile for that matter – the most important aspect of the installation is always the preparation. Everything beneath your tile is important, if any one aspect is done incorrectly it may compromise the integrity of your installation. Take your time and do it correctly, you will be much happier for it.

Now go put your dog out.

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  • Greg

    Hi Roger,

    First of all I have to say you are the man!! Thanks for creating such a wonderful site, I love it! I am getting ready to install 12×12″ porcelain floor tile in the master bath with cement backer. I am also planning on installing a marble threshold between the tile and carpet in the bedroom. Does the cement backer go under the threshold or can I put the marble threshold directly on plywood with thinset? I was worried about to much of a build up on the tile side. THANKS!!

    • Roger

      Hi Greg,

      You can put it directly to the plywood, but over backer would be better. If you go directly to the plywood make sure you use a really good modified thinset and get full coverage.

  • Gary

    Great site. I am installing a 2 X 5 tiled area in front of two doors. I plan on using Hardiboard over the existing 3/4″ plywood with thinset and screws as you suggest. My question is the Hardiboard instructions call for it to be installed over exterior grad plywood. I can not tell if it is interior or exterior grade. Is it ok to install over this plywood even if not exterior grade in this relatively small area. One person at the hardware store suggested ‘flashing’ the plywood with wood sealer first to minimize water penetration into the plywood. Or is there a thinset that is less of a water penetration issue. Seems like an overkill to me. Your thoughts or suggestions?

    Thanks
    Gary

    • Roger

      Hi Gary,

      You’ll be fine going over any type of ply with the hardi. Just make sure you have the thinset beneath it. It’ll be fine in smaller areas, you don’t need to worry about the water in the thinset.

  • John

    When taping the joints with thin set on the cement board subfloor, do you install thin set around the perimeter at the wall or just leave 1/8-1/4″ gaps open?

    • Roger

      Hi John,

      You leave them open.

  • Karrie

    I’m sorry if you’ve answered this elsewhere. I’ve looked & I can’t find it. If I’m wrong & you have answered this in another thread, hopefully my dog will not burst into flames!! My question is regarding a shower floor. I am using Redgard waterproof method. I installed backerboard on subfloor(2x10s over joists is our subfloor). I know you said you can build pre-slope directly on wood subfloor, but I laid backerboard. OVERBUILD!! However, I did not thinset first under backerboard. Will this matter since I’m building a deck-mud pre-slope on top of the backerboard? Have I thouroughly screwed up? Will this shift? Thank you thank you thank for your help!

    • Roger

      Hi Karrie,

      It will be fine under a mud bed. No problems.

  • Rick

    Hello Roger!

    Thanks for your informative site and all of your help to us DIYs.

    I am getting ready to place Hardiebaker on my bathroom floor to prepare for tile. I am talking about the area around the sink and toilet not the shower area. Since tile is being installed in the bathroom, do I need to place some kind of waterproofing membrane on the floor either on the T&G plywood decking or over the Hardiebaker after it is installed? Should I use RedGuard on the surface of the Hardiebaker before I place the tile?

    Thanks so much for your advice!

    Rick

    • Roger

      Hi Rick,

      You can if you want to, but it’s really not necessary. You can install right over the bare hardi.

  • Ginger

    Hi Roger,

    I am going to be tiling a 4X12 laundry room which needs to be able to stand up to water. (I have an elderly pet who has frequent litter-box accidents, so when she misses the box, the puddle sits until whenever I spot it, then I neutralize with straight vinegar, followed by wet mopping with water and bleach.) Tile is the only thing I can think of that can take this kind of abuse. Currently the room has a floating-type flooring over an old vinyl floor, over the cement slab. I was told I could set the tile straight on the slab, but your site says you shouldn’t tile straight over concrete slab. SO now I’m thinking maybe Ditra is the way to go, and I was wondering if I can put the Ditra over the old vinyl, rather than peeling it up? Thanks for any advice, and awesome site!

    • Roger

      Hi Ginger,

      Unfortunately no. Most vinyl adhesives are water-soluble. Once water gets under it the glue will release. If that’s under your tile you have problems. Plus there are only a very few thinsets that will actually bond, and they are EXPENSIVE!

  • joseph

    I was unsure if you have to wait for the thinset to dry under the backer board so you can screw into that

    • Roger

      Nope, do it while it’s wet. If your floor is way out of whack you can lay them all in the thinset, get it flat and let it cure, then screw it down, that’s one way to level a bad floor.

  • joseph

    Roger, great site! when laying the backer board on thinset how thick of a layer of thinset should there be? Also, I screw the board down right after I set each piece or at the end when all pieces are set in thinset? Do I screw into the wet thinset or are they supposed to be long enough to go into the existing plywood?

    Sorry if these are dumb questions but it’s my first time. Thanks!

    • Roger

      Hi Joseph,

      You should only need to use about a 1/4″ u-notch trowel. It doesn’t need to be a thick layer, but it needs to be able to fill any voids beneath the backer. The screws need to go into the plywood. You can screw each piece after it’s down or all of them at once when you’re done laying them in thinset.

  • Leonard

    Thanks for your help Roger. You’re awesome!!!

  • Leonard

    I just had a 225 sq ft upstairs room tiled with 24 x 6 tiles. Hardiebacker was supposed to be used. When the contractor arrived on the day of the install they did not have any type of backer board with them. He said that using a backer board would raise the new floor too high above the adjoining floor. Instead they painted the floor with Merkrete Fracture Guard and then applied MerKrete 705 mortar, then the tile. I asked him about not using a backer board and he said the way he did the job was better and more costly but that he would absorb the additional cost. Did he lie to me??

    • Roger

      Hi Leonard,

      The merkrete data sheet specifies fracture guard as suitable for use over exterior grade plywood and osb in interior uses. Coupled with the 705 it is a manufacturer approved installation method, which means merkrete warranties it.

      While I don’t like the particular application, it is approved and warrantied by the manufacturer. So no, he didn’t lie to you. Cost-wise it is a bit more expensive, but fairly close.

  • Ted

    I don’t have a question. It was answered in one of your replies.

    Great site.

    Ted

    • Roger

      Dear Ted,

      I’ve answered your question in one of my other replies. :D

  • Terri R

    I have removed marble tile from my kitchen floor. In doing so I still have the backer board with thinset present. My question is, can I still use the backer board and apply thinset as to the floor and 12×24 tiles during my instal.

    • Roger

      Hi Terri,

      Yes you can.

  • Karen

    Can I use thinset and durock over old asbestos tile in my basement laundry room and bathroom? The tile is not perfectly even and I was hoping to avoid paying specialists to remove it. I figure the durock will protect people in the future who want to lift up the tile.

    • Roger

      Hi Karen,

      Only if your basement floor is wood so you can drive screws through it. About the only option to bond anything on top of that tile would be to use a thinset specific primer over the tile first. But I honestly don’t know that the durock would actually remain bonded to the tile long-term.

  • ken

    I need to make a small batch if grout. Not going to use the whole bag. What should the consistency be. Don’t want it too dry or too wet.

    • Roger

      Hi Ken,

      Should be about like creamy peanut butter.

  • Tom

    Hi Roger —

    I just laid two sheets of backer board in a 2.5 ft by 7 ft bathroom. I only have one seam running the short width of the room. On one side (closest to the door), the seam is perfectly flat, on the other side, right by my vent, one board is a little higher than the other. I did use thinset with a 1/4 x 1/4 x 1/4 trowel under the backerboard, and used self-adhesive tape and thinset in my seam. Is it possible to fix that little mound I have right by the wall?

    • Roger

      Hi Tom,

      You can sand it down. Or if it’s less than about 1/8″ you can just compensate for it with thinset as you set your tile.

      • Tom

        Thanks for the reply Roger — I do have one follow-up question. How do you recommend sanding? Belt sander and low-grit sandpaper? I’m afraid I’ll need to sand down a healthy amount of the actual backer board.

        • Roger

          Belt sander would be best if you go that route. However, if the sanding needed is that significant an slc would be a much better (and hell of a lot less messy) solution.

  • Peter

    I have some questions. First what I am doing:
    I am tiling a very small bath room (4′ x 8′) in a house built in 1875. Only a 4′ x 5′ of the room will be tile, the rest will be shower. The sub floor is 7/8″ thick wood planks and they are definitely bouncy! Previous tiler simply put down a layer of luan then 1/2 cement board. I don’t get why luan, and as you point out, the cement board doesn’t add much structural strength.

    What I am thinking of doing is screwing down 1/2″ or 5/8″ plywood to get strength, then 1/4″ Hardibacker. I have the traditional limits on how thick I can make this thing. My questions:

    * How do I deal with variations in height in the current floor boards? I though about using thinset, but it seems that the floorboards are going to expand and contract more than the plywood, so that seems like a bad idea. The variations in height are small. The very worst is about 1/8″ so I may be over thinking this.

    * Is there a yet thiner alternative to the Hardibacker, something like the Kerdi membrane, that I can use directly over the plywood? This would allow me to go up to 3/4″ plywood and I would then worry a lot less about the variations in the subfloor! (Or this “Greenskin” I see in the previous comment!)

    * Why don’t we worry about waterproofing floors like we do shower walls? Yes it is a lot less water, but the are often puddles on bathroom floor so gravity isn’t on our side. (and I noticed that several of the nails holding the luan in place were rusty….)

    • Roger

      Hi Peter,

      Ditra is your ideal solution. It can go directly over plywood and has the added benefit of being waterproof. If you want it totally waterproof use kerdi-band over the seams between sheets.

  • Ed

    Is it normal to hear a cruncy sound when I walk over the wonderboard cement board?

    I haven’t installed it yet, I’ve only dry-fit it to the space. But it makes a crunchy sound and I’m not sure how I should proceed.

    • Roger

      Hi Ed,

      If it’s not yet down with thinset beneath it then yes, it could be completely normal as you step over the voids beneath the backer.

  • Jeremy

    Do you have to let the thinset under the backerboard cure overnight, or can you just tile over it as soon as it is down? I guess the same question goes for foot traffic over the backerboard – any time limits before it’s ok to walk on?

    • Roger

      Hi Jeremy,

      You can do whatever you like over it just as soon as it’s down.

  • mike

    Hi Roger,
    Would like to ask about putting down a limestone stone vein cut tile size 16″ x 24 ” tile on a concrete basement floor. I have done a few and just was wondering about doing it with a heated system since it would be on a concrete floor. Is it worth doing and what should I do if its worth it.
    Thanks
    Mike

    • Roger

      Hi Mike,

      It’s absolutely worth it, best thing I ever did in my house. Google ‘ditra heat’. Use the schluter heat mat, it’s the easiest method out there, you can use a different (less expensive) brand of wire in it if you want to.

  • Tim

    I just ripped up the flooring in my basement bathroom. It was directly glued on concrete…with that being said, do I still need the hardibacker knowing I won’t be able to screw into the ground?

    • Roger

      Hi Tim,

      No, cement backerboard is not used over concrete.

  • Vasili

    Thanks Roger. I hear you, alas, the owner of the property doesn’t want to spend the money for 1/2 ply. 1/2″ BB is going to be it. I hope for the best. One question about the AR tape… Do you recommend/use the self adhesive or just put the thinset and lay the non adhesive and thinset/press it with the straight trowel? Thanks.

    • Roger

      I would just do it with the thinset.

  • Vasili

    Roger,
    Thank you for your rapid reply. I just found out that the floor is only one layer of 3/4 Huber Advantech SPI certified space panels 1/8″ spacing on ends. Does the 1/4″ still suffice?

    • Roger

      Yes, 1/4″ is still fine. Backerboard of either thickness does not add any structural stability to your floor, it’s simply a proper bonding surface. You really should have an additional layer of 1/2″ plywood over that, though.

  • Vasili

    Hello, thank you for such great article. I am planning to install 12×12 ceramic files on a 960sqft area that will have a moderate traffic for a studio. The floor is double layer plywood and the joists are 16″ apart. It is rather good built. Should a 1/4″ BB suffice or should I use 1/2″?
    2. The BB has dots for screws and there is 40 of them. Do you suggest to put more screws by one in between the edges?

    • Roger

      Hi Vasili,

      1. 1/4″ will be just fine.

      2. Yes, I always double up my screws around the perimeter.

  • kent

    Hi Roger,
    I am getting ready to tile my kitchen and was wondering if I need to pull up my old linoleum before putting down the thin set and backer board? I have a 1″ OSB subfloor underneath it. Thanks, Kent.

    • Roger

      Hi Kent,

      If it does not have luan beneath it you can put down thinset and screw your backer down, no need to remove it.

  • Bob

    Hi Roger,
    I laid 1/2″ plywood over my existing 3/4″ subfloor. Now I have a valley when I put a long straight edge over it. Its over 1/4″ deep and spans 2-3 feet. Should I level this out with thinset and let it dry before putting down the backboard?

    • Roger

      Hi Bob,

      Yes, that works well.