This four part series describes methods to create a niche in your shower wall for tile. Please read through all four parts before starting. Your layout dictates the size and placement of your niche. You need all this information before making a hole in your wall! Or don’t – it isn’t my shower, eh? 
Framing
A shower niche, shelf, cubby, beer Pepsi storage, whatever you want to call it is one of the most requested add-ons for any showers I build. After all, everyone needs a place to store the important stuff – like your rubber ducky, as well as the unimportant stuff like soap and shampoo. So being the super-cool, quirky, lovable (with a healthy dose of jackassery) guy that I am – I’m gonna show you how to build one.
To the left you will see a photo of a niche with a shelf – we’re not gonna build that one. It’s just there to show you what you can do with the technique I am describing. I will explain how to do that in the last part of this series.
With any shower niche there are a couple of details you should pay attention to which will make it look like it belongs there rather than something you looked at drunk one night and thought “Hey! Let’s cut a hole in the shower wall so I can put my rubber ducky in there.” That’s not really a good look – rubber ducky or not.
One of the most important things I always do is line up the top and bottom (and sides if possible) with the grout lines in the field tile. The field tile is just the main tile on your shower wall. In doing this you keep the flow of the shower consistent and the niche doesn’t look like an afterthought – I hate that.
The way I do this is to actually install part of the field tile up to that point then I cut my niche out of the wall. This ensures you fall exactly on a grout line and don’t miss it by 1/4″ because you miscalculated. So, you need to have your wall all prepped and ready and some tile already installed before we start with the niche.
Before you start installing tile there are a couple of things you need to do. As you are preparing your walls for tile with backerboard, drywall and Kerdi, elastomeric liquid topical waterproofing membrane (No, I didn’t have my pinky in the air as I typed that. It’s just liquid membrane like Redgard) or whatever waterproofing method you’ve chosen, you need to write down the measurements to the inside and outside of the two studs between which you plan to install your niche.
Your niche needs to be placed between two wall studs. These are (normally) 14 1/2″ apart so assuming you have 12″ or 13″ tiles you can build a niche the size of one full tile wide. If you want one like the photo above it will be one tile wide and two high. Write those measurements down because once you get your walls up and ready to cut the niche out you need to know exactly where to cut.
If you have unusually placed studs (insert lame joke here) you will need to frame out the sides of the niche before covering them up with your wall substrate. Do not frame the top and bottom, only the sides. The top and bottom will be framed after we figure out exactly where they need to be placed and that happens after you already have some tile installed.
If you do end up framing it you need to add an inch to the measurement. If you have 12″ tiles make the studs 13″ apart. This is so you can add a 1/2″ piece of drywall or backerboard to each stud and have the correct measurement for your tile.
We're gonna build this one
The photo to the right is the niche I am going to walk you through. I chose this particular niche because it illustrates the point about the grout lines. And because I have pictures of it from start to finish. See how the sides and top and bottom of the niche all line up with the grout lines in the rest of the tile? It looks like it belongs there. That’s what I mean when I say type that.
This niche is 13 x 13 x 3 inches. The 13’s because that is the size of the tile and the 3 because that is the width of the bullnose. You can make the niche as deep as your wall will allow if you chose but(!) if your bullnose is only three inches wide and you choose to make your niche 3 1/2 inches deep (which is usually the amount of space between walls) you will have a 1/2″ sliver of tile on each plane of the niche behind the bullnose – and that looks like crap! So don’t do that.
Or if you chose to do that please tell everyone “the FloorElf showed me how to make that! Yeah, I know it looks like crap – he said it was gonna look like crap – but I did it anyway.” I’d appreciate it.
One more thing before we start (get on with it already!), this shower is built using the Kerdi membrane and drywall. You can, however, utilize this method with any type of shower you are building.
If you are using simply cement backerboard with a moisture barrier you will need to get Kerdi or one of the aforementioned fancy-ass word waterproofing liquids to make the niche waterproof. You cannot place a moisture barrier behind this and have it be waterproof – it simply won’t work. And your rubber ducky may burst into flames and who wants that? So snuff out your rubber ducky and lets get this damn thing built!
You may click on any of the photos below for a full-size version of how horrible my photography skills actually are.
1. Cutting the opening.
Photo 1: I have marked and cut out the opening for the niche. To the right of the niche I have installed a vertical row of tile and marked the lines with a level line from the grout joints between those tiles. That’s the big secret to getting everything lined up.
The opening is cut to the exact size. Notice on the right side of the opening you can barely make out the wall stud? That’s because there is 1/2″ space between the right side of the opening and the stud. I will install a 1/2″ piece of drywall there to bring the side flush with the opening.
In case you are unfamiliar with it – the bright orange on the wall is the Schluter Kerdi membrane. It is a thin polyethylene sheet which is installed directly to drywall to waterproof your shower. And its awesome. Just sayin’.
2. Inserting the horizontal framing
Photo 2: Measure the exact distance between the studs. Measure the top and the bottom – they may be a bit different and these measurements need to be exact. Now add 1/16″ to the measurement and cut a 2×4 that size. One for the top and one for the bottom.
Place the 2×4 between the studs and tap it down with a hammer. Don’t bang on it like its the last DMV employee you spoke with – just tap it lightly. You do not want to pound it down too far. If you do you’re SOL.
If you do happen to pound it down too far you can drive a screw into the top of it and pull it back up. You may want to use the claw on your hammer to get a good grip on it. Do not pry your hammer back like you are attempting to pull the screw out! Just place it on there in the same manner and lift the 2×4 back up.
3. Tap the 2 x 4's 1/2" down past the opening
Photo 3: Tap the 2×4 down 1/2″ past the edge of the opening you’ve cut out. Exactly 1/2″. This will allow you to install the 1/2″ drywall or backerboard to bring the top and bottom flush with the opening. Now put two screws into each one. Screw them from the front right through your substrate into the 2×4’s. You can see that in photo 4 – two in the top and two in the bottom. This keeps them in place.
If you did not previously frame the sides to the exact width (which I did with this particular niche so it is not shown) you will need to add additional framing to the sides to bring them in 1/2″ from the opening as well. You need every side of the niche 1/2″ away from the opening you’ve cut out of your wall.
Just screw any additional pieces directly to the side studs. You can use a 2×4 (1 1/2″ wide) a 1×2 (3/4″ wide) or build up 1/2″ and/or 1/4″ plywood strips to whatever you need to get them to the correct spot.
4. Inside of niche with substrate installed
Photo 4: Notice the two screws through the wall into each horizontal framing member?
Cut strips of your drywall or backerboard to the correct dimensions for the inside of the niche. In this case two each of 3 1/2″ by 14″ and 3 1/2″ by 13″. The 14″ place on the top and bottom and the 13″ on the sides. Screw those directly to the 2×4’s.
The bottom piece needs to be slightly higher in the back than the front! It needs to slope towards the opening. This is to ensure that water drains correctly out of it. By slightly I mean very – less than 1/16″ higher in the back than the front. You can just place a small cardboard drywall shim or something similar under the back part of the bottom piece. It cannot be level but you don’t want the top of your shampoo bottle sticking out of the niche – knowwhatimean? Just slope it VERY slightly. Just enough for water to drain but not enough for your soap to slide out of it.
If you have installed the niche framing correctly the sides of the niche as well as the top and bottom should all be absolutely flush with the opening you have cut out. If not remove the offending piece and redo it. If it is not flush your niche will not come out correctly. Fix it now – later is too late.
At this point the top and bottom of your niche should be exactly level with a grout line. If so, well done, move on. If not, well, start over.
Now the final step in framing out your niche will be installing the substrate on the back. If you do not want a 3″ deep niche – you need to figure out the math yourself. If you do want a 3″ deep niche – hey, your in luck. I just happen to have photos of one.
5. Installing a filler piece for the back of the niche
Photo 5: Cut a piece of your substrate about 1/2″ smaller than your niche opening. This is simply a filler piece for the back. You want a 3″ niche and a 2×4 is 3 1/2″ thick. If you place a 1/2″ filler in the back of the niche POOF! – 3″ niche. (That’s a good name for a band)
Install this filler piece with thinset. If you have a wall on the other side of this wall you do not want to use nails or screws or your wife is gonna kill you for drilling a screw through grandma’s eye in the portrait hanging on the other side of that wall. Thinset is less heartache.
This is a perfect example of why you want to have at least a very general idea of your layout and tile sizes before you start any tile installation. Any add-ons you choose to use will usually center around the specific size of the tile to look correct. If you build your niche for 13″ tile and end up with 12″ tile, well, you’re screwed. It won’t look right. It will look exactly like what it is – an afterthought.
6. The final piece installed and ready to waterproof. This is not yet waterproof! See Part 2
Photo 6: Then take the piece you cut out for your original opening and it will now become the back wall of your niche. And it better damn well fit. 
If it doesn’t, start over. Use thinset on this piece as well.
And that’s it, the basic building of your niche. General rules to take into consideration are:
You usually want to keep your niche the width of one tile. This eliminates any skinny pieces on either side of the niche or strangely placed lines and allows you to line everything up with a grout line. It also eliminates the need for a grout line through the back of your niche to keep the lines consistent.
Keeping the niche the width of one tile is the least important. It is open to interpretation more than the others. If you make it skinnier it may look better. Sometimes a square niche just does not look right and usually looks better in a rectangular shape instead. As long as your top and bottom measurements fall on a grout line you do not need to worry about funny cuts or lines. It’s your shower – make your niche however you think it looks best.
You want to make your niche the height of one or two tiles or one tile plus your liner piece or whatever else you’re placing in the field tile. You want it the height of whatever the space between two horizontal grout lines may be. This eliminates any “L” cuts in your tile to accommodate the niche.
Use common sense regarding whatever is on the other side of the wall you plan on installing the niche into. If there is a handball court on the other side of that wall – pick a different wall. Do the same when placing anything onto that wall. Don’t drive a 16 penny nail into it to hang a portrait of your gerbil – you’ll probably hit tile (or your rubber ducky).
If that particular wall is an outside wall and you live in a cold climate – choose another wall. You only have essentially 1/2″ of free space (your filler piece) between the back of your niche and the outside wall. You cannot get enough insulation in there to prevent freezing. And your shower will be cold, really cold. And your shampoo will freeze. Really, pick another wall.
If you have a liner or listello or row-on-point going through your shower a niche will usually look better with the top either right below it (as in the photos above) or even with the top of it. Make it look like you actually planned it. Not like this photo here:
Garbage!
This is a photo of the shower I tore out and replaced with the one you see at the very top of the page. This is garbage! It was done by someone claiming to be a professional – bullshit! Click on it – I dare ya. Partake in the full glory of an improper tile installation. The person that installed this is what I fondly refer to as a hack. If inflicting serious bodily harm ever becomes legal – these people are on my list. You just don’t take someones money and give them shit work and run like a little . . . sorry, I digress. Hacks piss me off.
A lot.
.
Correct
I will, however, save all that fun for another post. My point was the overall look of the placement of the niches. It is way too low, it looks like a shelf for a phone with that corner bench. It does not line up (except for the very top) with any grout lines. It is not level, although you cannot see that very well. Basically it looks like someone drunk cut a random hole in the wall, stuck tile to it and called it a niche. It looks out of place – that’s what I want you to avoid.
The photo below it is from almost the same angle after it was redone correctly. See the difference? It’s all in the flow, baby! (Sorry, I had Sammy Davis Jr. going through my head just now – yeah!) It simply belongs. Very existentialistic, dont’cha think? (I learned that word in college. Comes in very handy in my day to day life as a tile contractor. )
In my next post I will describe how to waterproof your niche so all your hard work doesn’t disintegrate in three months. It is currently 2am and I am out of beer need to get some sleep. Until next time I would like to leave you with a photo that explains one of the biggest reasons I put my time into this blog to help you guys out. If you’re squeamish you may want to look away. Have a great night.
I give you: The Incorrect Way to Build a Niche!
Now that your niche is ready to waterproof let’s do that – you know, since you’re building a shower and they tend to get moist…Part 2 – Waterproofing a niche.
On your highly recommended suggestion of not putting a niche on an outside wall… here is a thought… could one not build an inner secondary wall so that a niche or two can be on that inner secondary outside wall?
Hey Darryl,
Yup, no problem at all with that. It will, however, make your shower smaller, keep that in mind.
Hi Floorelf,
Your website is so great. You have so many good ideas and provide so much detail. I really appreciate that you are willing to provide free advice to DIY people like myself!!!
Instead of building from scratch, I am planning to install the Tile Redi premade niches into the shower. I have some on order. How would you waterproof the seams?
Tileredi instructs you to put a bead of silicone caulk around the perimeter of the shower niche between the niche edge and the surrounding concrete backerboard. I wonder if it might be better to go around the edges with fiberglass cloth using say thinset, or maybe something else, like epoxy mortar or the red stuff you were suggesting.
I guess maybe you would have to go to their website to check out the product and see what it looks like. Try this website: http://www.tileredi.com/products_files/Redi-Niches.php . I think it is mostly good. There is a flange around the perimeter with screw holes and thickness 1/2″ .
So if you could suggest a good way to seal this, I will be most grateful!!
Bruce
Hey Bruce,
I’m familiar with them. I don’t use them (size issue, not product issue) but they work well. Silicone is the standard way to waterproof them along the seams. Make sure you also put silicone along the cut edge of the hole you cut out for your niche and not just around the outside perimeter on the face of the backerboard. If you want to use redgard that is a better solution than the silicone. You’ll still silicone it in there, but paint redgard over the seam and about two inches on each side. That will give you a foolproof waterproof coating.
Roger, thank you so much for the advice!! I will get that Redgard just as you recommend. It is about $45 for a 1 gl pail, but I believe you is is good.
Bruce
I’m having some serious trouble figuring out how to put tile in the niche after it is installed. I’m not sure if I overlap the tile on the wall over the tile in the niche or if I bring the tile in the niche out level with the wall tile or which to do first. Here is a video of what I’m working with. I also had to shim out the wall and made an angle which I’m not too worried about but it could look better of course. Here is a video of what I’m working with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL_4TzoYVIk
I don’t have much of a cutter so I had to cut a few pieces and push them together on the corner of the niche.
Hey Kendall,
You run the tile all the way up the wall to the edge of the niche (like you’ve done on the left wall there) and bring the tile out of the niche overlapping that so the edge of the niche tile is flush with the face of the wall tile.
Thanks for the really helpful, detailed explanation. I haven’t started my bathroom remodel, so reading through all 4 parts of your instructions will definitely help me avoid major mess-ups. I’m about to line the bath surround with polyurethene sheeting (the DYI book I have recommends polyurethen instead of tar paper if one of the walls is an outside wall), and on top of that will go my cement board. Can you recommend any steps I can take to avoid cutting into the polyurethene sheet when I cut a rectangle into the cement board to make my niche later on. Is it even necessary to avoid cutting into it the poly sheet in the first place?
Hey Josh,
Nope, you’re gonna have to cut the rectangle out of the plastic as well. Once you do just silicone the perimeter of the plastic to the back of the backerboard around the niche. When water runs down the wall, it will hit that silicone and run around the outside of the niche rather than into it.
I have 6×2 stud wall in shower area where I want to make my own shower niche. Do I use standard 4″ deep niche or make deeperone? How do I water proof?
Thanks
Hi Rasik,
You can make it as deep as you want. The best way to waterproof a niche is with some type of topical membrane such as kerdi or redgard. The liquid membranes are much easier to work with.
Thanks for the great info on niches! Question: what about the niche liner trays you can purchase? Are they any good? Wouldn’t they save time? They claim to be waterproof and mold proof.
Hi Barbie,
The niches work just fine and do save a lot of time. Be sure to use the correct adhesive for the particular product. Some are used with just regular thinset but some require and epoxy adhesive. I don’t use them because they are NEVER the right size for the niches I have in mind for my installations – I custom build all of mine. Of course I’m an anal retentive ass, but that’s what you get. The pre-made niches work just for low OCD people – I’m not one.
Hands down this is one of the best sites out there. Quick question I have now gutted my bathroom and in. My shower tub location I started pulling out some insulation and the plywood between the studs is black…moldy..do I need to cut out all the plywood it is on all three walls in bath shower?
Hey Guv,
Not sure why you would have plywood between the studs? If it is black with mold you can either completely dry out the area to kill the mold and clean it all off with a bleach solution – or simply remove it and replace the plywood (if needed). If the area has not been completely dried the mold is currently dormant and will begin to grow again once exposed to moisture. Do not just cover it up. (But you already knew that)
Hi Roger:
My 1st time visiting your blog. Hilarious! Did you ever follow up on promise to tell Renea how to build in corner shelves in her shower? I need to know because I am using 16″ marble tiles and would need to cut them to fit between 16″ on-center studs. Would I need to use any of the waterproofing membranes you’ve been writing about? I think Renea’s request was made in March of 2011. It would also help if you could tell me how to get back to your blog. I did a general internet search on building niches in showers and you were one of the results (a true blessing for me). Thanks a million.
Hi Gloria,
Of course I followed up my promise! Elves are honest like that. It’s here: Building a corner shelf. That, however, will not likely help you in your situation since she wanted corner shelves. If you are installing those shelves into the wall cavity then yes, you’ll need to waterproof the entire opening. If you read all four parts of this series it’ll explain how to do all that. Just use the 16″ tile for shelves rather than the tile with bullnose, etc. Part four has all different kinds of niches so one of them should apply to your situation.
You can get back here by typing in FloorElf.com. Or you can simply google ’tile jackassery’ – I should be first, I work hard at that.
Your website is wonderful. Your explanation extremely helpful. I am really glad I came across your words and work this morning as it helped me decide what type of water proof method I will use.
Not the traditional method,which initially I was going to use, but changed my mind after reading your article.
Am either going to use Kerdi or RedGard. Still haven’t decided fully on which,because I am building a shower niche and am trying to determine how brave I am about using the Kerdi.
I am not pro and this is my first time. and I don’t want to make any mistakes .
But thank you again. You really have helped me a lot.
You are very welcome Anita. The redgard is much more user-friendly and any errors you make can be painted right over with more redgard. While mistakes in kerdi are fixable, it leaves much less room for error. The redgard is easier for most people.
hi roger ,was just havin a look at this topic and wondered if it made a difference which layer of wall board was on top .what i mean to say is in your instruction u brought the verticle board up 1/2 in so horizontal would fit inside can it go the other way so horizontal fits on top of vertical?not sure im making myself clear ?lol are you as confused as i am thx m8 your the man -chris
Nope, I get it. After reading it about 174 times.
It makes no difference at all. Whichever way you want to do it will work just fine.
Hi again Roger,
If using 16X16 ceramics set on the diagonal, then am I to deduce that the need for the half inch thick pieces of drywall set to the inside walls of the niche are not required? If I’m not trying to match a 12 or 13 inch tile nor line up any grout lines, seems I would not need drywall pieces. Could I just cut the drywall even w/ the studs including installing the top and bottom 2×4 between the studs even w/ the cutout? Then apply Kerdi to the raw studs (left and right side and the top and bottom 2×4’s). Maybe I’m missing something here???? Please feel free to set me straight. Thanks in advance!
Hey John,
The purpose for the drywall on the very back wall of the niche is for spacing and to line up stuff. The drywall for the sides is needed to prevent kerdi from being directly applied to the 2×4. Although the kerdi will adhere just fine to wood as well as drywall (even though the wood may leach water from the thinset prematurely and weaken it) you are not compensating for any regular movement in the 2×4’s. As they expand and contract microscopically that movement will be absorbed mostly by the drywall. If there is no drywall present all that movement is transferred to the layer of thinset and the back of your tile. These are very, very small movements, but over time may debond the tile from the kerdi by compromising the thinset adhesion. Drywall eliminates that. You should never stick kerdi directly to wood – you should have some sort of barrier (drywall or backerboard) between them to compensate for that movement.
Damn, I hate when someone knows all the answers!
If I’m realizing anything about tile, it’s all about movement! I see what you are getting at. Unlike Ditra, there is no uncoupling when Kirdi is used. Hey, there’s an idea. What about pieces of Ditra thinset to the studs and 2×4’s? Sure beats cutting pieces of drywall! What say you?
It’ll work. Good idea.
Damn I hate it when someone else has all the other answers.
Hey Roger, I have a similar circumstance – my niche could only be installed with the left edge nearly up against a stud. I, unfortunately, have no Ditra.
Can I install something else like cardboard shims in between the Kerdi and the stud? The space is just shy of a 1/4 inch so I really have almost no room. Gotta make it work! What do you suggest, guy?
Thanks!
Hey Stella,
Skim coat that side of the niche with thinset to build it out, let that cure then install your kerdi. With only that much needed it would be the easiest way.
Dear Elf,
Thanks for all the helpful tiling info.
I’m redoing a couple of bathrooms with a down-to-the-studs remodel. One bath will have a tub/shower combo that will be tiled and the other bath will have a shower only, both with niches. My question is very general; What do you recommend for wall tile backing and moisture barrier (considering I’m starting with no substrate)?
I’m leaning towards Durock Next Gen cement board, painted with Redgard. I’d like to stay away from anything I can’t get at my local big box store, unless it’s far superior for some reason.
Also, a bit off the topic of tiling per se, but I’ve heard it’s not advisable to hang green-board drywall on ceilings, due to its poor gripping to fasteners compared to standard drywall. Your thoughts?
Thank you.
Hi Don!
The durock next gen with redgard is a very good choice. If you’re limiting yourself to availability at the big box that’s as good as you’re gonna get. I am more of a kerdi guy myself but it’s rarely available there, and if it is it’s usually double the price. I simply prefer a sheet membrane rather than liquid – it’s easier to see if there’s a pinhole or compromised area in the sheet and it’s all a uniform thickness. The learning curve is larger, however, and with redgard you only need to make sure it’s thick enough. About the thickness of a credit card when cured. Most problems derive from that very simple thing – not thick enough. If you haven’t read through the redgard post here you should do that – it describes how to prime the durock for redgard as well as some precautions that may or may not be useful.
The only thing I could honestly tell you about greenboard is that it shouldn’t even be within sight of a shower.
I wouldn’t think it would be less sturdy on a ceiling than regular drywall, but I really couldn’t tell you, maybe so. I’m a lot of help, huh? 
Nice website! What do you suggest if we just cant line up a shower niche with the outer grout lines?
Hey Michael,
If you can’t do it you can’t do it. Sometimes you just have to make the cuts around the niche in the field tile and the grout lines won’t line up. Short of rebuilding walls in your house sometimes you’re just stuck with it. It doesn’t hurt anything if they don’t line up, I just think it looks better if they do.
Hi,
How would you create a niche the width of the bath and approximately the height of a shampoo bottle, but against an outer wall, ie, no stud work?
Thank you!!
Hi Ju,
An exterior wall is always a load-bearing wall so doing anything inside that wall requires the equivalent of a licensed contractor as well as permits, etc. A bit much for a space to store your shampoo.
If that’s what you need or want the only viable, non-licensed way to do it is to bump out the wall the width of however deep you want your niche. In other words, build another wall in the front of that one into which you can install a niche. Frame out the wall with the niche the size you want, then install your substrate, waterproofing, etc. You will lose that much space in the shower should you choose to do that. Four inches in a shower is a lot of room – unless your shower is huge anyway.
Thank you! The professionals will be doing it anyway, but thought I would do a bit of backgrounding myself. Cheers!
This site is amazing, and I’m so glad we found it before we started tiling our bathroom. We are preparing to do the shower in a few weeks, and I’m trying to figure out what to do for shelving. The long side and the end of our shower are in the corner of our house, so they both are on an outside wall. The only inside wall is where the plumbing is, so no room for a niche. I noticed the corner shelves on the right side photo of this post, and I’m wondering how that is done. What can we do to add shelving like that since we can’t do a niche? Thanks so much for your helpful (and free!) information!! And for making it entertaining enough that I don’t fall asleep while reading and give up!
Hi Renea,
Well, that is quite a subject for such a little space where no one is likely to see it.
Here’s what I’ll do: you check back on Monday and I’ll have a whole post written up with pretty pictures and everything explaining exactly how to do that – just for you! (and, you know, anyone who happens to wander by…) How’s that sound? I’d do it now but I’m a pretty busy guy what with the flaming dogs and that midget juggling act I’m working on (umm, midgets juggling – not midget juggling, that just looks funny), OH! and that whole ‘work’ thing. 
Check back Monday (or so
) and I’ll have it up for you. By the way, I make it entertaining so I don’t fall asleep…
Can’t wait to see it…I’m giddy with excitement!
Roger,
Thank you for your response. I would like to be clear on the “burning the thin-set in” process. Do I wait any length of time after burning the thin-set in before combing it in? Another words, do I burn it in and let it dry or immediately spread and notch it? (sounds like we’re just trying to get the paper side wet first) Again, thank you for your help!
Hey John,
Sorry, I should have clarified. You can do it either way. All you are doing is ensuring that the entire surface (the micro-pits and crevices, etc.) on the face of the substrate are totally filled with thinset so it gets full adhesion. If you simply comb the thinset on there it will only have full adhesion in the lines of the combing.
Sure looks like you thought it all through! Kuddos!! Here’s what I’m planning, using and what stage I’m at now: 32″ X 60″ shower only. 16″ tiles to be set on the diagonal. At the open framing and rough-in stage. Will use Kerdi and (since you’re familiar w/ Schluter products) Rondec to finish the outside edges instead of bull nose. My question is, since I’m using tiles cut to demention to fill the sides of the niche, would you advise filling the back of the niche w/ 1/2″ material? The wall on the other side is a wall in an entry way (so I get the no nails thing). The reason I ask is because if not filled, then I have to thin-set the Kirdi to the paper side of the dry wall before setting the tile in the back of the niche. Don’t know if the paper side will handle the thin-set (moisture) for the Kerdi??? What do you think? Thanks in advance for your response.
Hey John,
No need to add the extra for tiles that are being cut to size. The only reason I’ve suggested that is because I think a 1″ sliver of tile in the back looks like hell. Doesn’t mean I don’t do it, it just looks like hell when I do.
Since you’re using the rondec you can cut them to any size you want and it’ll look fine.
And for anyone that’s curious – the paper side of drywall will handle the thinset just fine as long as you burn it in (forcibly skim it with the flat side of your trowel) first then comb your thinset in. Burning it in prevents the paper from sucking the moisture out of the thinset (it will do that with the skim coat) when you comb it on there and place your kerdi. It won’t cure prematurely and weaken the mix.
Can I stick tile to tile? I should have read your how to build a niche first as far as placement. I would like to frame around my niche with bull nose tile and don’t want to tear out my tile. Is this doable.
Hi Janis,
Can you stick what to tile? The bullnose? If you’re asking if you can stick tile to tile yes you can – with epoxy. If you’re talking about something different let me know.
wow….thanks for the awesome, detailed, step-by-step instructions for installing a shower niche. great job.your site is extrememly helpful. we wish to put in a deeper niche…probably 6″ deep (since that is the size of our tiles). we have an empty pocket behind the wall we wish to put them on. how do we modify the instructions? we were thinking of using 2 x 8’s to frame the niche. what do we use on the back since it does not have a backing. is cement board adequate? or do we need to first put plywood for the cement board to attach to?
Hi Elaine,
You are very welcome! Thanks for reading it.
The easiest way to do a niche that large is to build a framed box out of 2×4’s (or 2×8’s) and cement board. The open side will be the opening of your niche. If you can get into that pocket from the back you can build the entire thing in your garage and hold it up to the back of the wall and screw into it through the front of the wall. If you do not have access to the area behind that wall you can build it in pieces and screw it all together through the hole in the wall. Framing all first then cover it up with your cement board. Make sure the bottom of the niche is angled out toward the shower so it will drain correctly.
A niche is only a box which happens to be open on one side. You can use whatever your substrate is and build it before hand and simply screw into it through the wall to install it. Make sure it will fit through the opening if you don’t have access to the back. If not, break it down into how ever many pieces you need to get it through there. Cement board screwed to the frame of the box is fine – no need for plywood.
How steep should the angle out of the box be?
Hi Tom,
Shim the back of the niche up about 1/16″. I should be 1/4″/ foot, as any vertical surface inside the shower. A four inch deep niche requires 1/16″.
Roger,
Great Diy.. just a few questions. Im currently putting up the walls to my new shower and im at the moister barrier (tar paper) between the studs and hardiebacker (0.42″). if i were to create a nich like this, how much Schluter Kerdi membrane should i use? (thin polyethylene sheet which is installed directly to drywall to waterproof your shower). i believe the thickness should be ~ as thick as a credit card.. but how much of the backerboard should i cover? my location is bay area, CA if that matters and directly behind the niche would be the wall outside of the house.
Thanks,
Chester
Hi Chester,
I think you are confusing the product with a liquid membrane (I think). Kerdi is an actual plastic sheet product which will waterproof your substrate with a single layer. The ‘thickness of a credit card’ is for liquid membranes which are brushed or rolled on to that thickness. The kerdi is only about 1/3 that thickness. If you are only waterproofing the niche in this manner rather than the entire shower I would kerdi the entire niche just like these posts describe except add an additional two inches to the height and width sizes of the sheet. This would give you a 4″ overlap on the outer edges of the niche.
I have noticed that this comment is on part 1 of the niche instructions – this is a four part series which walks you through the entire process including photos of the kerdi being installed. Have you read the remaining three posts in the series?
Roger,
Thanks for the reply. I found this site by googling DIY niche and didnt realize that there were 4 parts to this. It makes sense now.
Thanks again,
Chester
No problem at all, Chester. If you have any more questions please don’t hesitate to ask.
Hi Roger,
) so before I put up my rockboard, I want to build out my niche. However, upon further inspection I notice the stud I’d use for support is not level, like 3/4″ off level. I was thinking to build the niche outside the wall first, then place it in using shims. This way, I could still use said stud as support when I secure the niche. Any thoughts?
Your instructions are by far, the best example of building a shower niche on the web! Quick question: I have my studs exposed (always wanted to say that and not get slapped from my wife
Thanks again!
Hey Joe,
That sounds like it may be your best option give that your framers apparently did not own a level or a square.
(Not unusual, by the way) That’s what I’d do – if I knew what the hell I was doing…
Hi if I put 4 coats of lacrete hydroban over all the hardie board top,sideswall,floor before I tile is that good vapor barrier?
Thank You
Hi Greg,
Yes, Laticrete Hydroban is a topical waterproofing membrane and if applied thickly enough (about the thickness of a credit card) it will fully waterproof any substrate you install it on.
Hi Roger, great help with niches. I noticed you mentioned a vapor barrier does this go behind the cement board? and what is it just plastic sheeting? The bathroom is in the interior of the house does that make any difference? thanks for the help!
Hi Nate,
It is either plastic sheeting 4-6 mils thick or regular roofing felt (tar paper). It goes over the studs between the cement board and studs and down over the top of your tub or shower flange. This ensures all moisture is directed into your tub or shower basin.
thanks roger, so if you are using the schluter kerdi then you dont need the plastic or tar paper? I am going to try and tile the floor as well. thanks again, Nate
That is correct. You only want one waterproof barrier in your shower. If you have more than that it will allow for the possibility of moisture being trapped between the two barriers with no way to dissipate. This may lead do mold, mildew, musty smells, everything you don’t want in your shower.
Thanks for the great instructions on shower niches…
But what if this is on an outside wall, and we have vapor barrier to worry about? Do we prepare a bigger space first, rather than just cut thru once the tile is up?
Also, we are using Durock cement backerboard, and aren’t sure if we will be able to do a smooth cut out once it is up.
Any thoughts?
Hi Collette,
If you can prepare a bigger space first that would be ideal. I always urge people to choose a different wall for their niche rather than an outside wall, there simply isn’t a whole lot of space there with insulation and there really isn’t an effective ‘thin’ insulation sufficient for that. You would lose a whole lot of space. Not saying it can’t be done, just that it isn’t ideal.
I waterproof all my niches with a surface membrane like kerdi or a liquid so a vapor barrier is not an issue. A niche cannot be effectively waterproofed EASILY with simply a vapor barrier. You have a horizontal surface, gravity works against it rather than with it so your waterproofing needs to be done well. You can cut the vapor barrier around your niche and use kerdi or a liquid to waterproof it.
It will be difficult to cut the niche out smoothly after the walls are up with durock. You can (take your time) plan out exactly where your grout lines will be and cut out the niche before putting up the walls. Just cut it larger than you’ll need and you can make adjustments with extra pieces of durock and thinset as you are setting your tile.
You have been a great help! Thank you so much! And you’re pretty funny too! You ROCK
Hey, thanks Lana! I’ve been accused of a lot but pretty funny is rarely one of them. Thanks for the kind words.
Barefoot Banana – I love that!