Well, you’ve made it to the final step. If you have arrived at this portion of the instructions without first reading the rest, start with How to Create a Shower Floor. Go ahead, I’ll be right here when you get back. I’ll just sit back and drink this beer Pepsi while I wait.
Okay, now that we’ve ensured that your shower liner is indeed waterproof and won’t leak into your dining room and carve the Grand Canyon into your basement we’re ready for the final portion. The top mud bed is the surface onto which your shower floor tile is actually installed.
What we will now be doing is fabricating your top mud bed directly over the top of your waterproof liner. The top bed will be 1 1/4″ to 1 1/2″ thick – consistent throughout from the drain to the wall. Since you have a pre-slope beneath your liner (umm, you DO have a pre-slope beneath your liner, right?) you already have the correct slope for drainage. By making a consistent mudbed for your top slope it will follow the slope for the same amount. Know what I mean?
Here, take a look at this badly created diagram and that may help explain it – and don’t give me any crap about my lack of photoshop skills! You can click on the diagram for the full-size version.
The top mud bed is what we have left for your shower provided you’ve followed in order. See how the top mud bed is properly sloped toward the drain even though it is a consistent thickness? That’s what I mean.
A couple of notes before we start making a mess. You can install your moisture barrier and backerboard on the walls at this point if you want to. DO NOT put any screws through the liner, stop them above the top of the liner. The top mud bed will hold the bottom in place if you choose to do it like this. Your moisture barrier must go over the top of your pan liner as in the diagram. This ensures that any moisture will run down into the shower rather than into your framing behind your wall.
In my wonderful diagram I have the wall substrate or backerboard installed after the top mud bed is fabricated, you can also do it in this manner. Installing it before, though, assists in getting a level perimeter around the base of your shower since you can draw lines on the wall. It’s up to you.
Determining the thickness of your top mud bed relies mostly upon the amount of vertical movement you have in your drain. You need to make sure that you can unscrew the center portion (this moves the top of the drain up) enough to be level or a hair below the top of your mudbed with tile. The easiest way to determine this is to start at 1 1/4″ – that’s just the thickness I prefer to have if possible.
You need to place pea gravel, spacers, or something similar around the drain where the weep holes are located. This prevents deck mud from clogging up your weep holes and nullifying all of your hard work. If plugged up the shower cannot properly drain beneath your floor tile and your house will fall down and your dog will burst into flames. Okay, maybe your house won’t collapse, but it won’t be a good thing. Make sure you place something there that prevents clogging of your weep holes.
Place a piece of your floor tile on the base of the drain – on the upper part of the flange – and unscrew the barrel of the drain until you reach 1 1/4 inch. As long as the barrel is still firmly screwed into the flange at this height you have enough to create a 1 1/4″ top mud bed. If the drain falls out before you reach 1 1/4″ (it won’t) – go with 1″.
Now the fun part – we’re gonna make your lines so you can see what your doing, where you need to be, and make your slope correct and consistent. Get your 2 x 4 (which is actually 3 1/2″ x 1 1/2″ – economy I guess) and set it on top of your drain (Figure 1). Measure from the liner to the top of the 2 x 4. In this photo it is (or close enough to) 4 3/4″.
You then need to make that mark at the same height all the way around the perimeter of your shower walls (figure 2). If you have installed your backerboard you can just make that mark on the wall at a height of 4 3/4″. I use a laser because I’m a big Star Wars fan and that’s how I roll. Get one, they’re great for building showers and annoying small animals. That’s a versatile tool right there!
This may look a bit confusing at first, the 2 x 4 and all, but it will make sense shortly. Or not . . .
Now we need to prepare some more deck mud. Get out your shovel and mixing box. If you need the recipe again it’s here: How to Make Deck Mud. Start with the perimeter of the shower and dump your mud in there. I always start along the back wall of the shower.
Get a good amount of deck mud packed along the walls higher than where you want it to be. Once you have a good amount packed against the wall grab your 2 x 4 and place it flat against the wall. Get your hammer and beat the deck mud down with the 2 x 4 until the top of the 2 x 4 is level with the line you’ve made on the wall or your laser line (figures 3, 4, and 5).
Simply continue to do this around the entire outside perimeter of your shower keeping all the edges level with your line. By utilizing the 2 x 4 with the laser or the drawn line you can be certain that the floor is level all the way around (Figure 6).
Some people have asked me why I have a hole in one of my 2 x 4′s. It’s a very detailed explanation – ready, pay attention – so I can hang it on a nail when I’m not using it.
That’s all, stop overthinking everything, it’s a hole in a 2 x 4. You don’t need a hole in your 2 x 4 unless you have a storage problem.
In the next post we’ll finish up your floor, fill in the center and get ready for tile!
















Add a Brilliant Retort
Thanks for all your help thus far in my shower project. The top layer of deck mud is down and cured. The top is very sandy. I am wondering if there is a recommended technique for applying the tile cement to this surface? I wonder how well the tiles will stick with the cement adhered to some loose sand. Again, thanks, this site has much improved my project.
Hi Jamie,
You can mix up some thinset a little runnier and skim over the top with the flat side of your trowel to lock all the loose sand. It’s supposed to be sandy, that’s completely normal. As cement (in the thinset) cures it grows little crystal ‘fingers’ which lock into whatever substrate it’s installed upon. This locks the thinset into the substrate as well as the back of the tile. It will adhere just fine. Not only does the cement in the thinset do this, the cement in the deck mud continues to do this as well (mostly in the first 28 days) so they essentially lock together with a crystal matrix.
Didn’t know tile had any connection to Star Wars, did ‘ya?
What do I do about the ceiling above the shoiwer part and if I want to put granite slabs on the walls and the floor what should I put on the walls behind the granite and how do I slop the floor for the granite slabs. The shower is 591/4 x36 wide by Im thinking going write to the ceiling with the granite Thank-you
Hi Gino,
You’ll need to create a flat plane on your shower floor if you want to use slab granite there – which will require a linear drain at one end of it. Keep in mind as well, one large slab of granite on your shower floor is going to be extremely slippery. I would not recommend that at all.
The shower wall can be prepared in any manner you choose just as if you were installing tile. Any of the membrane methods will work. You don’t need to do anything special with the ceiling at all.
Roger,
Your tip about adding the width of the 2X4 to the depth of the deck mud is brilliant! So simple. yet works so well. Easily the best tip I’ve found during this whole project!
Now that I have the top layer down, I need to mud the curb. Liner and lath are already installed, and I am planning on using mason’s mix. Should I be concerned about the mason’s mix properly adhering to the deck mud. If so, how should I handle it, thinset slurry?
Thanks!
Ed
Hey Ed,
No worries – it will stick just fine to the deck mud.
Hey there! Awesome site! I am attempting to do 2 shower’s in my new house…and I have researching this to no end. I am so happy that I was given your site, it has helped me understand so much more…BUT…I am feeling really stupid about the weep holes. I’m not getting it…I understand the point of the weep holes, and I saw that you put on their about putting spacers or pea gravel etc so that they don’t get clogged…get it (sorta?)…what I’m not getting is…and I’m sure this going to sound really stupid to you…but I am soooo new at all of this…anyway…if I am putting the deck mud up to the drain, where the weep holes are…and there are spacers there…if I leave the spacers in there…wouldn’t the spacers block the holes? I am so confused! The weep holes are under the top layer…yes?
The weep holes are beneath the top mud deck so – yes!
The spacers or gravel is there to prevent the weep holes from being clogged by deck mud. The weep holes are normally less than 1/8″ wide or high – deck mud can get in there and clog them, spacers or pea gravel will not. Water can still get around the spacers or gravel and through the weep holes. Deck mud can actually clog them and prohibit water from getting to them.
That doesn’t sound stupid to me at all! You know what sounds stupid to me? The phrase ‘I, personally…’ it simply sounds redundant and bugs the shit out of me. If you start a sentence with ‘I…” aren’t you speaking of the personal ‘I’, or am I missing something??? THAT sounds stupid to me.
Oh, Roger, my dear sweet Roger. I made a huge mistake!!! Before I met you I was seeing alot of other shower building sites. The truth is I was a “How to build a tile shower” google whore! Anyway, all the other guys told me to build the curb out of pressure treated 2×4′s so that is what I did. I am building my shower on a basement cement floor. I don’t fully understand the problem. I had to frame the walls with pressure treated 2x4s against the floor so why can’t they be on the curb. I have already made the preslope and put in the liner. I can’t rip it out, I would rather die! What would be the 2nd best thing to do? If only I had met you sooner! I now know you are the only one for me!
Oops.
The problem with using pressure treated wood is that as it dissipates moisture (it’s infused with moisture on purpose) it will begin to dry and twist and warp. Once that happens anything installed over it will begin to move. Tile doesn’t like movement. You can see all sorts of pictures on my flawed page of showers I’ve torn out – every one of them that had cracking on the curb had pressure treated wood beneath it – every one.
The only proper way to fix it is to replace that curb with bricks. You can fold the liner back over and rock the wood back and forth until it comes loose from the pre-slope – it shouldn’t be stuck well at all, deck mud won’t hold onto it. Then replace it with bricks and finish everything as normal. If you think you’d rather die than do that think about how you’re gonna feel when you get all that beautiful tile installed then your curb starts cracking. You really need to replace that or the curb will not last. I know it sucks.
On a totally unrelated note: the phrase ‘google whore’ made me laugh my ass off – thanks.
I LOVE YOU! I have read through most of your site and I find it annoying when someone asks a question that you just covered in the article just above. I think to myself, “asshole, read the article.” Well, now I am going to be that asshole. I just want to make sure I have this right. I framed the walls, built the curb, poured the perslope, and have the liner in place 8-10″ up the walls and over the curb. Now, do I hang the cement board and bury the bottom of the cement baord in the top mud bed? This makes more sense to me than leaving a gap between the floor and substrate. Thanks
I love you too, asshole.
I actually didn’t cover that – so thanks. It is much easier to bury the backerboard in the top mud deck. Make sure you leave about a 1/2″ gap between the backer and your liner at the bottom. You want the water to run down and into the drain rather than wicking up the board – if the board is setting on the liner it will wick water up from it. The top mud bed will hold the bottom of the wall in place so you don’t need to screw through your liner.
Just so you know – I think that to myself all the time too!
I know you mention packing the top layer really hard. So, should I pack the top mud bed into that 1/2″ gap?
Hi Betty,
Yes, pack the mud into the gap at the bottom too.
I love your website…you do great work. Possibly the best shower information on the web!
I hired a co worker (any red flags yet?) to do my shower. He removed the old tile (to studs), and there was some evidence of minor mold. When he removed the existing preslope, it revealed a concrete floor. I asked him to move the drain to the center, since the shower is being made wider. He proceded to bang it out and made the hole about 18 inches around.
From what I saw, the entire concrete shower floor was originally poured over sand and I am guessing that there was a previous sunken tiled bathtub there because the of the tile at the bottom of the sand! We were able to cut the drain and relocate it.
We set the drain, we packed new sand around the new drain and made sure it was level with the bottom of the broken concrete. THe hole was filled with new concrete. Should I have used rebar in the new concrete?
The preslope wa done and I had to explain a lot of things to my friend. I landed up re-doing the preslope because he did not mix enough mud to complete it and used a different mix to finish it!. I am quite sure there is a straight (not level…lol) pre-slope. I am at the water barrier stage, but thought I would ask the question about the patched hole job we used to move the drain. If it is wrong, now would be the best time to get it right.
Hey Paul,
Sometimes I reinforce it and sometimes I don’t, it just depends on the job. As long as your sand bed below the drain was filled in and packed in really tightly there really shouldn’t be a problem with it. I would make sure your top mud deck is at least 1 1/2″ thick at the drain and pack it in there really well – beat the hell out of it.
Thank you Roger, for taking time from your busy day to reply so quickly (to all of us)
I am fairly confident that the sand was compacted well and the patch will hold. My next dilemna concerns the moisture barrier.
My friend has installed some hardiback from the ceiling line, but not all the way to the bottom. He also cut-out a niche on the backwall (between studs, and has already nailed the hardibacker. I made sure he framed the bottom (of the niche) with a slight downward slope. Should I have him remove the new hardibacker and install a moisture barrier between the studs and hardibacker (including the niche)? He bought a small tub of Mapei Mapelasiic Aqua Defense. I believe his intent is to paint it on the hardibacker , after the seams have all been taped and sealed. Which is better…the barrier between the studs, or the painted barrier over the hardibacker?
Alow me to thank you, in advance, for your assistance.
Hey Paul,
The Mapelastic is actually better. It’s what is called a topical waterproofing membrane. I simply places your waterproof layer directly behind your tile rather than behind your backerboard. Using topical methods eliminate any water from ever reaching your backerboard, let alone your studs. Keep in mind that for liquid topical membranes to be effective they need to be thick – about as thick as a credit card – so it requires a couple of coats. You also want to do a priming layer. Read the article about Installing Redgard on your Shower Walls Redgard and Mapelastic work the same so that applies to your situation as well.
Topical waterproofing is always best but it must be done correctly to waterproof your shower.
Hi Greg,
First off – thanks for the in depth tutorial.
After laying down the liner should I install the cement board on the walls and then start fabricating the second shower bed or create the second shower bed and then install the cement board? Which is better?
thanks!
Hi Vince – My name is Roger but you can call me Greg if you want to.
There really is no ‘correct’ way to do it. A lot of guys prefer to finish the top bed then install the cement board with a 1/4″ gap at the bottom to eliminate wicking – hardibacker (as well as all others) will wick water – hardi is the worst. I prefer to install the cement board first then the top mud bed – two reasons: The top mud bed packed against the board will keep the bottom portion (which you cannot screw through) held in place and you can mark your level lines right on the cement board. I waterproof my showers completely so when the cement board does wick water it doesn’t affect anything at all. I think that way is better – but a lot of guys disagree.
howdy,
i’ve enjoyed reading your tutorial. but i have a question. i want to just have a cement/concrete finish (no tile). what is my mix and/or what do you think about this?
sincerely greg
Hi Greg,
Personally I wouldn’t do it. But I’m biased toward tile for some odd reason
If you want simply a concrete shower floor the only option I can think of would be a specialized concrete sealer made specifically for that purpose. Deck mud is not anything close to what you want and the manufacturer of any aforementioned sealer would more than likely require a specific mix of concrete for their product.
I did find this: Waterproofing beyond topical solutions You may want to check out that link, I don’t know if that will help or not.
If you change your mind and decide you want tile in your shower – I’ll be right here.
roger,
thank you for your speedy response.
krystal is an interesting product. i’ll have to remember it. but i have already completed the mortar bed today and this product mentions skipping that process. but i suppose this extra step could only be a good thing.
the problem of not using tile is the wicking of water through the concrete and sealing this sounds like the issue. is that right?
do you know any quality products for sealing concrete.
sincerely greg
Hey Greg,
Yes, the problem is topically (or otherwise) sealing the concrete to allow any water in the shower, basin, or whatever, to flow only down into the drain without wicking through the concrete and into framing, etc.
To be honest I have no idea what I would use. I do the complete opposite with concrete. If it is sealed I will scarify it to remove the sealer in order to guarantee a bond of my mortar. I’m sure there are products available but I don’t know what they would be.
The best option, I think, would be to check out the concrete network. Anything I’ve ever needed to know about concrete I can find there. It should be able to help you out as well.