Tile FAQ’s

by Roger

The questions below are the ones I get asked most often about tile and installation methods. Each one gets a very short answer, and where a full article exists there is a link to it at the end. Filter by topic or search for a word – if you would rather just read them all – just scroll.

Substrates

Can I simply stick tile to the drywall in my shower or the plywood on my floor?

You can but it won’t last – so no. Read this: Preparing a shower wall for tile or this: Installing backerboard for floor tile

Do I need a waterproof membrane for my shower walls?

Yes, a membrane of some sort is required. Read the article for the different types. Read this: Preparing a shower wall for tile

Does my floor have to be level before I install tile?

No it does not. Read this: Does my floor have to be level for tile?

Setting Materials

Are mastic and pre-mixed “mortar” acceptable to install tile on a floor or in a shower?

No they are not. Read this: Proper setting materials for tile

What should I use to set my tile?

It depends on where you are installing the tile. Read this: Proper setting materials for tile

Grout

Can I install my tile without grout lines?

No, you should not. Read this: Tile with no grout

Are tile, stone or grout waterproof?

No they are not. Read this: Is tile waterproof?

Does grout help stabilize tile, hold them in place, or make them stick better?

No it does not. (Epoxy grout is different) Read this: Does grout stabilize tile?

Are there any “magic” products available to remove stains from your grout and tile?

No there are not. One of the closest things to magic that you can buy is oxygen bleach. It is not bleach! It’s a slight misnomer. This is the main ingredient in products like oxyclean. It works very, very well to clean grout. More information: How to clean grout

Sealers

Should I seal (or re-seal) my tile and grout?

If you would like it to be easier to clean then yes, you should. Read this: Tile and stone sealers

Will sealing your tile and grout make it waterproof?

No! It absolutely will not. Read this: Sealers, part 2

Transitions

Should I use grout or caulk in the corners of my shower?

Technically? Caulk. Realistically? It depends. Read this: Caulk or grout in corners?

Miscellaneous

Can I install floor tiles on my shower walls?

Yes you can. Read this: Floor tiles on a wall

Question that is not here? Leave it in the comments below and I will add it to this page.

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Tyrel

Just layed some Ditra in a different bathroom. Its over a concrete slad and there is a little area in a door way about 4-5 inches wide that had paint on the floor from where the utility room floor was painted and they just overlaped into the other room abit. Is it a big deal if the thinset is over the paint in that doorway? The dirta stops on the utility room side of the doorway. I used un-modified thinset like schluter says.
My other question at the moment is on top of the ditra to set the tile they want you to use un-modifeied again, but is it really too big of a deal to use modified thinset on top?? It just seems to stick so much more. I have both un mod and mod so wichever you think.

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- Roger
  
  I honestly don’t know. It depends entirely on the specific paint, thinset, bonding time, amount of thinset, etc. Exactly why it’s a good idea to get it all off before installing the ditra. It will likely be fine – but I really can’t guarantee that.
  
  I actually normally use modified over ditra. It’s better to first fill all the waffles with the thinset and let it cure, then install your tile the next day. You will lose your warranty from schluter if you do that. There are SEVERAL ways to go over ditra, that’s just how I do it. Why do you need ‘sticky’ thinset on a floor? Once the unsticky stuff is cured it’s gonna be plenty sticky.
  
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Jim Piktel

ROGER Im ready to tile now- Wow is this project going to be a bitch! Every wall is a different heigth.( and I have shelf breaks in the john area (flat) and 45 angle in the shower) Im using 12 in tile. So If I start at the left back wall I will have a 3 in short piece right. Do I meet that with a cut piece or full? The end of that wall would then have a shorty. Should I try to keep all my grout lines symetrical on all walls the same even with different heigths? Please help And as always YOU ARE THE MASTER!!!!!!! THANKS JPj

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- Roger
  
  Hey Jim,
  
  I always prefer to center the tile on the walls so I don’t have those 3 inch pieces anywhere. Shift your wall over to the left 4 1/2 inches so you’ll have an even 7 1/2″ piece on each side. Same applies everywhere else. It normally looks better this way and if you do that the corners look completely normal whether they are smaller or larger pieces. All grout lines should be symmetrical whenever possible. Layout is EVERYTHING!
  
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David

Hey, Roger! Thanks for your work on maintaining this informative site. I am re-grouting my shower. I was just about to put up the Latecrete Spectralock Grout as you recommend, when I did something stupid…I read the instructions. Lo and behold, right in the “Before you begin” section, it says, “Not for use in areas subjected to enzymatic cleaners and no-rinse cleaners.” Holy Cow! Are there any other kinds??? We like to use one of those cleaners that you spray after a shower but don’t rinse or scrub, which kinda matches what they are saying not to use.

Any thoughts?
Thanks!

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- Roger
  
  Hey David,
  
  That is mostly for industrial applications, for which they have the spectalock 2000 industrial. I’ve never, ever seen a regular bathroom cleaner, even the ones you are speaking of, that cause any type of problem with spectralock at all.
  
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  - David
    
    Oh, thanks! Now I have to break my record and actually finish a project! Way to take away a guy’s excuses!
    
    I appreciate it. I’ll let you know how it goes.
    
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les

Any thoughts on marble for shower enclosures.

I thought I was set to go, but just saw some real negative comments about marble use in a shower.

Les

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- Roger
  
  Hey Les,
  
  It requires more maintenance, but provided your shower is correctly built it will be just fine. I just finished a marble shower bigger than my first apartment, it works just fine.
  
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Lisa

I’m re-tiling a tub surround for the first time. I’ve hung vapor barrier and am starting on the cement board. I’ve discovered that the new bathtub does not sit flush with the studs on the back short end. There is about an inch gap. I’ve furred out the studs so the backer board will hit in the right spot, but now I have a problem where it meets the drywall on the side. It sticks out too far. . . . How can I transition from the cement board to the drywall? If I just tile over it, I’ll have bullnose tile hanging 1/2 an inch away from the wall.

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- Roger
  
  Hey Lisa,
  
  About the only way to do it is to either place a corner bead and drywall there on the 1/2″ part and paint it or place a 1/2″ strip of tile on the strip and move the edge of the bullnose out to cover the bare edge of it. No other real ways to do it.
  
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Deborah

Hi Roger,
Couple more questions as we move thru the bath. I didn’t used caulk or silicone at the corners of our tub/shower alcove before I put on the redgard. Can I still do so and if so, should I apply more redgard in those corners once it’s caulked/siliconed. Also, can you recommend a tool for cutting thru the hardibacker to put in niches? My husband is worried about damaging the backer board when he cuts.
Thanks,
Deborah

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- Roger
  
  Yes, you can still (and should) install silicone in those areas, then paint more redgard over it. The best tool to cut through backerboard to install niches would be a roto-zip or a similar rotary tool (dremels work as well) with a diamond or carbide coated bit. It’s very, very hard to damage the boards if you take your time and make a SHITLOAD of passes with your razor knife – nearly through the entire board. If you don’t have a rotary tool then you’re stuck with the knife method. It’s a patience thing. (Something of which I have none)
  
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  - Deborah
    
    thanks roger. and oh s*#@! i thought i was going to actually tile today. now i’ll have to wait for the redgard to dry after i make another trip to hd or lowes to buy more of that stuff — and ouch, it’s expensive. now that i’ve done this i think i’d go with the wedi board next time; no dry time…then again not sure i’ll be crazy enough to do this again. but now that i have all the tools…the changes to your website are great and it’s easier to find info. thanks for all your work.
    
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Bob

Roger,
We have received a quote for the glass block replacement window in our shower, and the installer gives us two options: 1) install the window flush with the interior wall so that the tile butts up flush against the edge with a bead of silicone creating a waterproof assembly, 2) install the window flush with the exterior trim which creates the need for a small return of drywall/kerdi/tile and some type of ledge. In your opinion, for waterproofing purposes, which option is the best?
Thank you,
Bob

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- Roger
  
  Hey Bob,
  
  As far as waterproofing it would be easier with the block flush with the inside. As far as actual use inside the shower it is much more convenient to have a small shelf there. If flush with the outside wall waterproofing the return is no problem at all for someone familiar with proper installation. Do not (!) make design decisions based on what would be easier to waterproof. Waterproofing your shower is going to take a day – you will be USING the shower every day for at least ten or fifteen years! Waterproofing should not even be a factor in the design – nearly anything can be waterproofed – what you’ve described there is very basic.
  
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Rhonda

Hi Roger,
We are building a corner shower in a basement. The corner is concrete and we discovered Red Gard and wondered if we could apply Red Gard to the concrete walls, concrete floor and then tile right on top, after mortar bed for the pan,of course. I can’t find anyone who talks about concrete wall tiling and waterproofing. We also want to cover the ceiling with tile to protect a metal beam from constant moisture from the shower. How does the tile stay up while curing? Do you have to keep pressure on it, say with a stick off the ground?

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- Roger
  
  Hi Rhonda,
  
  Yes, you can go directly over the cement block with redgard provided there isn’t a moisture pressure issue with the blocks. As long as they are constantly dry (do not have condensation on them all the time) then you can redgard and tile right to it.
  
  You keep tile on the ceiling while the thinset is curing just like this: Installing tile on a shower ceiling
  
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  - Rhonda
    
    One more question about the ceiling in the shower, should it have a slope to it for water drips and what should that be?
    
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    - Roger
      
      Not really necessary unless you’re building a steam shower, in which case it is 1″ / foot. You can if you want, though.
      
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Lee

Hi Roger:

We are going to be using the Traditional method for our shower. The base is a preformed acrylic pan. The question I have is, do we take the cement bord right down to pan edge or do we leave up and fill the area there with the motar we are using for the tile? I have been advised both ways. Would you mind sharing your thoughts on this.

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- Roger
  
  Hey Lee,
  
  You want to leave a small gap, 1/8″ or so, for expansion reasons. Do not fill it with mortar, the different expansion and contraction rates of the wall and base will end up cracking it. The tile goes down to about 1/16″ from the base and that gap is siliconed.
  
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  - Alex
    
    I thought that gap from the tile to the pan should not be siliconed? Im asking because i had a similar question and i think you said to bring the vapor barrier to the shower pan edge and leave the tile gap open for wicking reasons??
    
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    - Roger
      
      You need to leave weep holes in the silicone or caulk line between the tub or base, but it normally gets caulked or siliconed. It’s for weeping reasons, not wicking reasons.
      
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william jaramillo

im doing a shower pan and i used mortar mix to float it , some body told me that this is not good ,whats going to happen???

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- Roger
  
  Hey William,
  
  The normal stresses of the structure are going to eventually crack that pan if it hasn’t happened already. The sand in deck mud compensates for this movement through the layers of the deck and dissipates it before it gets to the surface – mortar won’t do that and may eventually crack the grout and/or tile. It really should be replaced with the proper mix.
  
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MikeP

Hey Roger.
What would you do? I’m tiling my wall, all but the bottom row of tile. Haven’t done the floor yet. I was going to finish the wall, and then the floor, thinking if there are any uneven tiles at the bottom, the flooring will cover them up. If I do it that way, what kind of gap should I leave between the bottom wall tiles and the shower base?

Thanks,
MP

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- Roger
  
  I normally leave a 1/16″ gap no matter which I install first.
  
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Robert

First…Thanks for all the hard work you do maintaining this site…

Contractor installed shower pan but its in not level along walls. Its wavy and dips along bottom of backer board by as much as 3/4 inch in places. What type of thinset is used as a bonding agent to the top mud pack so I can build it up a little. Modified or unmodified??? I was going to make a thin sloppy mixture of thinset as the bonding agent then use your recipe for mud (quicrete sand topping and more sand) to adjust the height up around the shower. I used mapei ultra flex 2 to tile the shower walls above the first row of tile (not installed). Is this the best thinset to adhere to the shower pan.

Keep up the good work and thanks.

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- Robert
  
  OOPs..the shower pan is unlevel only about 1/2 inch along the backerboard…if it makes any difference. Thanks again.
  
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  - Roger
    
    Hey Robert,
    
    Doesn’t make any difference what type of thinset you use for that – any of it will work. The ultraflex will work just fine.
    
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John

Here’s a slightly different question for you. How would you build up the front face of a tub deck? It needs to be removable in order to access the plumbing of a whirlpool tub. It’s about 7′ long, and 21″ high, and the outside face would be tile with wood trim. I’m thinking 1/2″ ply, with 1/4″ or 1/2″ back board glued and screwed directly to the wood, and using caulk to “grout” the tiles. I would also weight down the ply/backer assembly so it sits flat on the floor while the thinset dries between the two, in attempt to keep the ply flat. Or would you suggest some other manner of building this wall?

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- Roger
  
  Since you are trimming it with wood anyway just use 1/2″ backerboard a bit smaller than the opening, frame it with the trim and tile it. Then install some magnetic cabinet latches on the back of it and the tub face. When you need to remove it you can just pull it off and put it right back on.
  
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Ian Garling

Yo Elf!
Thanks for all the great info, It’s been an awesome resource for my bathroom remodel project. Most of my questions have been answered by looking through other posts but I’m not sure about this one. I’m installing radiant floor heat and Redgard on the bathroom floor. I started with this roll out styrofoam composite substrate but I’m thinking it may be a problem down the line because it’s not completely flat. So I also need to put some self-leveler down. My question is about the order I should install them in, I’m thinking I should start with the heat wire, embed in the leveling mortar, then seal with redgard, then thinset/tile. Do you see any problems with that order of operation?
Thanks again!

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- Roger
  
  Yo Ian!
  
  That is the correct order, although I’m a bit worried about the ‘styrofoam composite substrate’. What exactly do you have there?
  
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  - Ian Garling
    
    Muchas Gracias for the reply!
    It’s something like SoundGuard, EasyMat, CrackBuster… I got sucked in at Home Depot where they were guaranteed just as good as hardibacker. Seemed like a good idea @ the time when I was first getting started. The more I read, I realized that I didn’t want to risk cracks so I figured the self-leveling mortar would be a good idea. Right now it’s this peel & stick mat stuff over plywood.
    
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    - Ian Garling
      
      I take it from reading other posts that I should probably put hardibacker down as well?
      
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      - Roger
        
        If you’re using SLC then no – install right to the self-leveler.
        
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        Ian Garling
        
        Thanks a Million, Killer site man!!
        
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Dumas

Hi Roger, thanks for the education thus far.

I’m starting a shower remod and boy do I have some questions. I have demo’ed the walls back to the studs (16″ OC) and will be building a shower where a tub once sat. I still need to move the back wall out to enlarge the shower footprint. My vision is to install 12″ x 12″ marble tiles with small glass or tile mosiac accents over Kerdi membrane and a drywall substrate. Smaller marble pieces on the ceiling and over a mortar shower floor. And this brings me to my first question, I know that the manufacturer recommends a drywall substrate under Kerdi, but really? I’ve been married for 20 years so I obviously know how to follow directions, and I am confident that I can create a watertight barrier. But, I could “what if” this to death, when the frameless glass surround is installed the mounting screws will breach the Kerdi, if water gets through to the drywall… game over!
Why wouldn’t a c.b.u. substrate be a better medium?

The new back wall to be framed will be 2X6’s, again 16″OC. I am going to build a niche in this wall and for aesthetic reasons would like it to be wider than the approximate 14″ between studs. Framing is no problem, but with a plywood backing (5/8″ or 3/4) can I run this niche out to 20-22 inches? My concern here is flex and instability due to the unsupported width.

You steted in other print that you liked Marble, as do I. Is marble suitable for the floor tile if I keep the pieces small or can it be too slippery? How often does it need to be sealed?

And finally… if a dog bursts into flames, will a unicorn fart put it out? I’m just sayin’

Thanks a bunch,
Dumas

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- Roger
  
  Hey Dumas,
  
  cbu is a better substrate – and you can use it if you want (and it will help you sleep at night), no problem at all. Any penetrations through the kerdi needs to have silicone filled into the hole first, then the screw. That’s true with drywall or backerboard.
  
  The maximum size you want on the shower floor are 2×2’s. Anything larger will be slippery.
  
  Not sure about the dog flames and unicorn farts – I’ll test it in the garage this weekend if I can get approval from the wife.
  
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Garris Thornton

Hey Rodger, I feel like a broken record over here, but great site. I would have liked to use a more eloquent superlative, but great sums it up nicely.

About 5 years ago I talked the wife into buying a 1970’s fixer (best neighborhood, worst looking house mentality), rather than a “new construction” home based on two facts: 1. The “new” construction, since 2000 or so, is pretty much crap, in my humble opinion. Using 2×3’s rather than 2×4, stud spacing at 24″ rather than 16″, running an entire kitchen on a 15 amp circuit, etc. Basically anything they could scrap to save money and hide from the inspectors they did. And 2. They just don’t build them like they did in the 1970’s! Great bones of a house is an understatement, more like brick silo.

Nothing infuriates me more than lazy labor. If you are going to do it, do it right the first time. Sorry, I’ll put the soap box away.

I am in the process of giving the wife her dream hall bathroom (this after giving her the dream kitchen, dream master bedroom and bathroom, dream nursery, dream office, you get the point), and in reading your masterpiece on the waterproofing, I didn’t see anywhere that you specifically addressed how exactly to continue the waterproofing around the shower/tub valve. In the traditional method, of using 6 mil against the studs, how do you incorporate the valve? In the flawed section, picture 19, could you please elaborate on the correct way?

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- Roger
  
  Hey Garris,
  
  I absolutely agree about new construction! Well said.
  
  You want to silicone the vapor to the back of the backerboard to create a ‘dam’ around the valve. When water runs down the barrier it will hit that bead of silicone and run around it rather than into the wall cavity. As you install the tile you want a bead of silicone around the valve sandwiched between the tile and backer – same reason. Those coupled with the escutcheon seal prevent any water from getting in there.
  
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Linda

Thanks Roger,
I guess the floor In 2×2 should also be diagonal? It adds a Lot to the price. Linda

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- Roger
  
  Doesn’t need to be, they’re small enough that it won’t look funny if they are installed straight.
  
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Dave

I am having my kitchen floor tiled, it has linoleum now. Does the linoleum have to come up or do you wonderboard over it.? Thanks

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- Roger
  
  Hey Dave,
  
  As long as it is not ‘cushioned’ linoleum you can place thinset over it then screw down wonderboard.
  
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Larry

Hi Roger,

Right now our entire shower including floor, walls, niches and corner seat are covered with Hardibacker. We need to tape the seams.

In some outside seams, the Hardbacker did not meet perfectly, and now we have – how to explain – tiny inside 90 degree corners. Just imagine the shower niche… the sill piece being a little short and not covering the vertical piece. So there is a gap like this: L (sideview.) The vertical part of the L and the Horizonal part just meet at the corner, but do not cover each other to create a perfect outside 90 degrees. Using the corrent cement board tape and thinset, how do I fill those areas and make them square? I want it really smooth and nice because I will be applying Hydro Ban to the entire shower and feel the smoother the corners are the better. I would be happy to send you photos if you are willing to send me your email address. Better yet, you could just fly to Austin and give me a hand. The weather is great now. haha. Appreciate any guidance.

Thank you!
Larry

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- Roger
  
  Hey Larry,
  
  You can build up the area in the low part of the ‘L’ to be flush with the upper. Let it cure, then tape and mud everything. You can use sandpaper to sand everything down smooth wherever it didn’t end up that way. I would head down to Austin but, you know, it’s in Texas.
  
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Linda

Correctioin—My tile comes in 12 x 12, which I’m now considering for the ceiling. Given the horizontal brick pattern of of the walls, would you recommend diagonal for the ceiling? And stay with 2 x2 for the floor?

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- Roger
  
  Correction – the 12×12 would look good too. Diagonal always looks better with subway patterns.
  
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Linda

I am tiling my bathroom floor with an off white (with some subtle shading changes) Italian porcelain 12 x 24 in a brick pattern. In the small shower, I plan to use the same size and pattern running horizontally. My problem is what to use for the floor and ceiling. The tile comes in 2 x 2 mosaic, but then jumps up to 18 x 18. Do you advise using the small tile for the floor? Cutting the larger pieces to a smaller size for the ceiling? THanks for your help!

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- Roger
  
  Hey Linda,
  
  You NEED to use the smaller mosaics for the floor. They will conform to the shape of the shower floor, larger tiles will not. You can use any size you want on the ceiling – the 18×18 would look good. No reason to cut them down unless you want. When installing a subway pattern around a shower you will not be able to keep all the grout lines matched up – they will be offset somewhere – it’s just the nature of the pattern.
  
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Sherry

We are installing an alcove bath tub with a flange ( lip) that is about 3/16″. I see where you advise to install cement board 1/8″ above the flange. Do you then suggest that I mud and tape the gap and the flange to prep for the tile, leaving a gap for caulk? Please help.

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- Roger
  
  Hi Sherry,
  
  Nope, you don’t need to do anything with that gap at all. The moisture barrier needs to run down over the front of the lip and the back of it is siliconed to the flange, backer 1/16″ – 1/8″ above it, then the tile just hangs over the front of it down almost to the tub itself. Anything you place between the tile and tub will just crack and cause problems.
  
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tina

Ex contractor put in 1/4″ sheet and 1/2″ sheet of plywood over floor joist under new fiberglass tub. Is this strong enough for support? Floor Joists are 16″ apart. Tub is perpendicular to floor joists.

↩
- Roger
  
  Hi Tina,
  
  While not ideal it should be fine. It should have been at least two 1/2″ sheets. Who the hell uses 1/4″ plywood for anything? (rhetorical question – nobody does…)
  
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Elizabeth

Hi Roger
In our bathroom re-model we are stuck @ out flange. A full piece of tile would go there with the flange to the left of tile. There would be about an 1 1/2 part of the tile, then the circle for the flange.
My question???? what is the best way to cut the circle to fit over the flange

Thanks bunches and want you to know I just love your site. U B da boss….lol

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- Roger
  
  Hi Elizabeth,
  
  The easiest way is to shift your layout one way or the other by 1/2 tile. But that isn’t gonna happen – you and I both know it. A grinder with a tile blade on it will cut that circle out for you.
  
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Alex

Hello Roger! Great site! So happy i stumbled upon it. I read through alot of it but wanted to ask you something about my specific project. I just completed my 1/2 bath remodel including a 12×12 tiled floor (1st tile job for me which came out pretty good) but now have to do 1 of my full baths. Ive never tiled a shower stall before but am going to give it a shot. Its a 32×48 shower and i plan to use a swanstone shower pan (is this a good pan do u have any experience with them?) From what it looks like they tell you to place it in a bed of mortar. I also plan on using durock for the walls, then tile them with 12x12s.

1 is an exterior wall in the shower. I was going to remove the current insulation and use spray foam. Will this be a benefit? I think it should provide a better r value maybe and be more resistant to mold than fiberglass correct? I also wanted to use insulation or some sort of sound deadener in the interior wall cavity as there is a guest bedroom on the other side and the shower can be loud when running. Is this ok? Should i use 4 mill plastic on all walls then staple and glue it to the studs? Or just staple? I can just screw the durock to the walls – is there a benefit in using liquid nails with it as well?

Also, since i will be securing the shower pan directly to the wall studs do i bring the durock all the way down and over lap the lip or just bring it to the top and over lap with tile? And then caulk underneath the tile? Is there a benefit to using a ledger board or can i just start the tiles from the bottom up?

Sorry for the novel but would really like to get an experts opinion on all this. THANKS!

↩
- Roger
  
  Hey Alex,
  
  The r-value of the spray insulation may or may not be better than the fiberglass – it will state the r-value on both products. If (WHEN!) your shower is build correctly you don’t need to worry about mold at all – ever. But for the record mold eats mostly the kraft paper covering in the fiberglass insulation and the wood studs it’s stuffed between, if mold gets back there it doesn’t matter what type of insulation is there – it has plenty of food. Just staple the plastic to the studs – no need for the glue also.
  
  Swanstone is a good product. The vapor barrier must run down over the lip and the back of it should be siliconed to the lip of the base. The backer can go to the top, or over the front of, the lip. Makes no difference. Tile goes down to the top of the base. I just normally start from the bottom up, I rarely use ledger boards.
  
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  - Alex
    
    Thanks Roger-so the vapor barrier does not go behind the shower pan to the floor then? I actually glue it to the front lip of the pan? Just want to be sure. Also, what type of trowel do u use for 12x12s? I have a 1/4 x 3/8 trowel i used for the floor in my other bathroom. Will this work?
    
    Another question- since i am only tearing out the shower and butting up to the exisiting sheetrock i should use 1/2″ durock right? And what should i use at the gap from the durock to the sheetrock? Same thing im using on the durock seems? Alkaline resistant tape and mortar/thinset?
    thx again for any help!
    
    ↩
    - Roger
      
      No, the barrier runs to the tub and is siliconed to the lip. When water gets behind your tile and runs down the barrier it needs to run into the tub. I use a 3/8 x 3/8 trowel, if your wall is very flat yours will work fine. Just be sure you have good coverage.
      
      Yes, 1/2″ durock. The seam gets fiberglass mesh tape and thinset just like the other seams.
      
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