Tile FAQ’s
The list below contains the most commonly asked questions about tile and installation methods. For each one I have included a (very) short answer. I already have, or will have in the future, a post about every one of these. If that post already exists the question will be a link to the article.
I will continue to add to this page as the questions come up. If you have a question just leave a comment at the bottom and I’ll include it on this page.
- Can I install my tile with no grout lines? No you should not.
- Are tile, stone, and grout waterproof? No they are not.
- Does grout help stabilize tile, hold them in place, or make them stick better? No it does not (Epoxy grout is different.)
- Are mastic and pre-mixed “mortar” acceptable to install tile on a floor or in a shower? No they are not
- Are there any “magic” products available to remove stains from your grout and tile? No there are not.
- Should I seal (or re-seal) my tile and grout? Yes you should.
- Does tile require a lot of maintenance? Not a whole lot but it is by no means maintenance free.
- Will sealing your tile and grout make it waterproof? No it will not
- Can I simply stick tile to the drywall in my shower or the plywood on my floor? You can but it won’t last – so no.
- Can I fill my cracking grout with more grout? Maybe. Read the article for a more complete answer.
- How large should my grout lines be? It depends on the tile size and the look you want.
- Do I need a waterproof membrane for my shower walls? Yes, a membrane of some sort is required. Read the article for the different types.
- What should I use to set my tile? It depends on where you are installing the tile.
- What type of grout should I use for my tile? It depends on the tile and where it was installed.
- Can I install floor tiles on my shower walls? Yes you can.
- Does my floor have to be level before I install tile? No it does not.
If you have any suggestions or questions please feel free to leave a comment.
{ 29 comments… read them below or add one }
in reading the how to create a shower floor, I am noticing my contracter did all your never do’s
My question now is with the curb for the wooden floor I know my contracter used pressure treated wood , as he told me he did so they would not rot, I notice your site says never do this. What to do know the shower is completly done, what are the ramifications of him doing this?
how much of a mess am I in
Hey Vicki. I replied to your previous comment with a bunch of questions – I’m an inquisitive bastard like that.
If he used pressure treated wood for your shower you will eventually need to at least replace the curb. The moisture injected into the wood is nearly double that of normal or KD lumber. That simply means that eventually that moisture will evaporate. When it does the wood will slowly shrink – and perhaps twist. This will crack your grout and eventually pop tiles loose. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
If you could answer the questions on your previous comment here I will be able to help you more effectively. If you are not comfortable posting the info here you can email me directly at floorelf@floorelf.com with the answers.
Just an FYI for everyone – the ‘used pressure-treated wood so it doesn’t rot’ excuse from any contractor does nothing but show off their ignorance on the subject. (Ignorance not in a derogatory context – simply uneducated about it). The only thing that will rot wood is moisture. If your shower is correctly built you could build your curb out of paper mache – it will NEVER see any moisture – ever. That is simply reasoning of someone not educated in proper methods – period.
Hello again Roger,
Thanks for all the great info. We are about ready to begin installing onyx tile in our bathroom. We’ve already been told we need a really good saw with a diamond blade to ensure clean cuts. What nobody seems to be able to tell us is if it’s possible to round and polish the edges with a grinder or something for the edge pieces. Also, can you tell us how to cut the tile on a curve, like with a jigsaw? Is it possible? Thanks again for all your help!
Hi Elizabeth,
It is absolutely possible to bullnose onyx. HOWEVER, onyx is a very fragile stone and very, very difficult to round and polish. Not really a job for a do-it-yourselfer. Not implying you can’t do it, just that you shouldn’t, it could get very expensive fairly quickly. If you have a stone fabricator somewhere nearby they should be able to do it for you. It will probably cost you a bit but believe me, it’ll be cheaper than the replacing the broken pieces from learning how to do it yourself.
If you go to my professional site I have photos of an onyx backsplash with bullnose pieces on the ends. Just click on the pictures in the post and they are really huge files so you will see a lot of detail. It’s here Onyx Backsplash Installation in Fort Collins
If you do want to do it yourself the equipment is also quite spendy, I’m talking about $750 just for the basics. Having a pro do it for you would be cheaper than that. You have the basics correct – a grinder is the base tool – but it is a specific grinder which feeds water to the pads while you polish. The pads run 75-100 each.
To cut a tile on a curve you can buy a ‘diamond ring saw’ or a ‘diamond band saw’ (just google those) or you can do it with your regular wet saw by cutting a series of small, straight cuts in progression around the curve. Just draw your curve and make a straight cut so that just one small part of it actually barely touches the outside edge of part of the curve. Then rotate your tile about 5 degrees and repeat. It is tedious but it works well. To polish off the ‘flatness’ of the curve you can actually hold the tile against the side of the wet saw blade (the diamond part on the outside of the rim) and ’sand’ down the corners until the curve is nice and smooth. Like I said – its tedious.
Just so you know they do make a diamond blade for a jigsaw. I don’t know how well they work, I’ve never used one. But I can absolutely guarantee you it will not work on onyx. The movement of the blade itself will vibrate the tile too much. You will end up with nothing but shards of onyx and a bad attitude.
Hope that helps.
Roger,
I am putting 1″ honed honey onyx tile in my bathroom on the floors of the shower and the main floor as well. The very expensive tile store where I got the tiles also sold me sanded boned grout and stonetech sealer that they instructed me to use after I had grouted. Well, I just took them at their word and started with the shower floor. The tiles turned gray. I don’t know how to fix that problem and would appreciate your advice on that.
But I sure don’t want to make the same mistake on the main part of the floor. So I went to Lowe’s to look at the epoxy grout. I also thought I would try a color enhancer sealer to darken the tiles a little bit. The tiles now are set in white thin-set mortar. The color is still fine.
What do I do next? When can I grout and should I use the color enhancer first, then epoxy grout or the other way around. I worry the grout will look plastic against the tile. And there were several comments I saw somewhere that the epoxy grout colors are not what the package promises. Sorry to be a rambler, I am on tile overload after studying it all day. Thanks, Gloria
Hi Gloria,
Don’t panic!
Your tile actually probably turned ‘gray’ because it was wet. Before the grout sets fully and dries out there may be what looks like a ‘framing’ of the tile. Is the grayish color darker around the sides of the tiles? If so that is your problem. As the grout dries out and sets it will slowly go away. Give it some time and see if it starts to lighten up, it should.
I would not use a color enhancing sealer on onyx. Onyx is similar to glass and will not absorb much of the sealer and the result will be minimal, if any. If it is a good sealer, though, go ahead and use it. Although you may not see a lot of result from the enhancing aspect it will still seal your onyx. Stonetech sealer is very good stuff also, by the way.
You always want to seal onyx last. Grout first, epoxy or otherwise. If your epoxy grout is Spectralock it will come out the exact color you see on the sample – every time. I cannot speak to other brands as the Laticrete Spectralock is the only epoxy I will use.
The next thing you want to do is finish grouting your floor. Let the grout set and cure for 48 to 72 hours before you seal it. (The amount of time needed should be on the sealer)
Hope that helps. If you have any more questions at all please don’t hesitate to ask.
I have a customer that is allergic to many compounds. Specs call for a home made thinset. How do I go about mixing my own from scratch?
TIA,
Rick
Hey Rick,
Thinset in it’s purest, most base form is simply portland cement, lime, and sand to which water is added. Mixing it like this will leave you with an (extremely basic) unmodified thinset for basic tile installation.
Whoever spec’d a thinset mixed from scratch should have – or needs to – provide you with a recipe for such. If someone simply told them ‘I’m allergic to certain compounds’ they need to know what those compounds are. If not it doesn’t really solve the problem as they may, in fact, be allergic to portland cement. Or silicate. Who knows?
You need more (all of the) information if they expect you to be held responsible for this particular problem. If they want you to solve it they need to provide you with the tools to do so. If not – don’t touch it. Seriously.
Don’t just take someone’s word that you need to create thinset from scratch, find out why with details. Mixing thinset in this manner seriously compromises the integrity of certain applications. If that is something for which you will be held responsible you should make damn sure it’s necessary.
Just my $.02.
Thanx, Roger
I’ll let ya know how it turns out. Lew
Hello,
I recently had new porcelain tile floor installed. The tiles are beautiful, but unfortunately I hate the grout and it ruined the whole look of the tiles- it came out far too white after I was assured it would dry more ivory/beige. I understand it will change over time, but it’s simply not what i wanted and i now dread looking down when i walk into my home. The tiles were installed in a high traffic area and I fear that they (well the grout) are inevitably going to look permanently dirty. Is there anything I can do other than tear out the whole floor and start over?
Can I add a layer of grout in the color I like over the new (but dry) grout?
Does staining grout really work or does it ruin the tiles also?
I welcome any and all ideas you might have.
Thank you very much!
Hi Allison, sorry to hear of the problems.
The first thing to do is determine whether or not the “white” of the grout is actually the grout not curing to the correct color or it is actually efflorescence.
Efflorescence is caused by the minerals in the water migrating to the surface of the grout as it cures. After the grout cures and the remaining moisture evaporates the minerals in the water are actually left sitting on top of your grout.
Take a screwdriver or other small metal probe and scratch just the surface of the grout in an inconspicuous area. If the grout beneath the surface is the correct, desired color then that is your problem. You can normally get rid of this with a mild acid wash over the surface of your grout.
If that is not the problem the best solution, in my opinion, would be to remove and replace the grout. No need to tear up the entire floor. You can check out my post on that, just type “regrout” into the search box.
Grout colorants, while used by many people, are not something I use. They will not harm your tile. They do, however, make your grout look like it has been painted (the ones I’ve seen, anyway). If you could find one that would actually “dye” the grout rather than leave a colored layer on top of it, that may work for you.
Hope that helps. If you determine that efflorescence is actually the problem let me know and I’ll describe to you, or better yet, write a quick post on how to solve it.
Again, appreciate your advice, Roger -
Gonna’ get my liner on order, plus probably a new drain assembly. Things should move along pretty good by the time these come in, as long as my bum knee holds up! Will let you know results.
Hi, Roger!
Enjoyed reading your site. It is very informative, and your willingness to share your trade knowledge is admirable.
I have a shower situation which I’d like to ask some questions about. Shower is in my master bath and I am currently involved in redoing the pan to include a liner. When house was built 13 yrs. ago there was no requirement for liners or wall vapor barriers. I think the codes have now changed making them mandatory. Anyway, 5 yrs. ago we had the shower rebuilt following discovery of moisture wicking up into drywall & framing. I did the demolition, allowed for drying out, treated the accumulated mold and readied everything for a “tile professional” to do the work.
I’m an electrician and at the time was working lots of extended hours, thus did not really observe all the install. Consequently the “expert” 1) did not install a liner or vapor barrier and 2) followed the original slope going over the originally installed thinset. This, of course, raised the new tile lever almost 1/4″. To compensate, this yoyo piled thinset over drain receptor and surface mounted the grate using longer [cad plated] s/m screws. To have one pulled over on me like this is embarrassing because I’m rather particular.
I’ve been laid off since April, so figured I’d try my hand at improving this mess. Not wanting to tear out the entire shower, opted to remove 2 courses of perimeter tile, take up floor tile, add cpe liner and lap it up sidewalls 9-12″ and correct drain height. The walls will hopefully endure by the grace of gravity. Shower was built w/ regular 3000 psi concrete sloped to the drain, then tiled. The entire floor is sort of an “island slab” w/ about a 1″ expansion void all around the perimeter into subsoil.
Question 1: Do I need to jack out the entire floor or can I fill the expansion w/ backer rod , add liner, finish slope and tile?
Question 2: Is it absolutely necessary to use bedding mix for the pre-slope? If so, I’ll have to jack out the floor – aaarg !
Question 3: Another option would be to do pre-slope over existing floor plus liner and finish slope. This, of course, will raise floor level by some 2 to 2-1/2″. Any thoughts about that?
OK, know you about tired of all these words by now. I sure will appreciate your reading time and any encouragement you can pass along. Thanx, Lew
Hi Lew,
You can go with option #1. Fill the expansion with backer rod, place your liner over it and then your top setting bed for the floor tile.
It is not necessary to have the pre-slope made from deck mud. As long as it has the correct slope regular concrete is fine. The purpose of the pre-slope is to ensure that any water that reaches the liner is sloped to the drain and does not sit stagnant on a flat floor.
No reason to raise your floor that much with the whole works on top of what is already suitable as a pre-slope.
Hang in there! If you have any more questions just let me know.
Thanks, Roger -
Gonna’ recheck to make sure I’ve got adequate slope on original floor. This will sure save headaches! Thanx again.
Lew
Hi again, Roger -
OK, here I go again with this shower fix (fingers x’d)!
Have now torn out floor tile, plus some 20″ of Hardibacker and tile around the entire perimeter. Boy, cutting that cbu back to leave a reasonable splice point and not create a dustbowl was a real challenge! Took me 2 days using some “creative” tooling!
The previous installer had virtually spread his thinset over the original, following the existing slope. Stuff he used must have been a quickset type ’cause it hard as a rock w/ no elasticity. Apparently, thinset over thinset was the contributing factor to tile ending up higher than the drain.
Here’s what I propose to accomplish: 1) install pan liner lapping up walls and over curb (I will redo existing curb). 2) cut off 2″ pvc drain pipe as necessary to place new clamping drain at proper tile level. 3) retile, and hopefully, end up w/ a more efficient moisture shedding product. I hope concentrating on the most vulnerable portion of the shower will suffice for now.
Naturally, all this anticipation doesn’t come without more questions, so, if you’re ready, here goes.
As far as that expansion area around the perimeter, as you agreed, I’ll probably use backer rod to fill this area. If I can’t locate the proper size rod, could I just use mortar? Then can I lay new membrane on floor as is or is 15# felt recommended beneath as somewhat of a cushion against rough concrete and framing? Once membrane is down I intend to “tweak” slope as necessary with the top mud mix. Am I on the right track so far? Also, I’ve read some installers suggest notching the studs for the liner. If so, that means tearing out blocking to inset appropriately. I can see notching the corners where membrane is folded. What’s your thought here? Finally, are there any opinions on regular membranes; cpe verses pvc? I’m leaning toward Noble’s product since it is 5′ wide, thus no necessity to seam (shower is 34″ wide).
Can’t think of anything else at the moment, but certainly I will later! Sure appreciate your guidance. Regards – Lew
Hi Lew, Sorry for the delayed response.
Yes, you can use mortar or, better yet, dry pack to fill that space. You can just lay the liner on what is presently there. Using felt paper is for floors (such as wood) that will suck the moisture out of the dry pack too quickly thus weakening the bed. You don’t need it.
Notching the studs keeps the backerboard from curving out at the bottom of the shower. If you don’t notch the studs the wall will bend out at the bottom where it is placed over the liner causing all sorts of problems. Notching the studs creates a cavity in which to place the liner. You may be able to take a hammer to the blocking just enough to create this space, you only need about 1/8″ or so.
In my opinion either liner is just as good. Nobel makes great products.
Sounds like you are on the right track. Keep in mind that what you are doing is really only a temporary fix (albeit for a couple of years) and should be completely rebuilt when you can. For the short term, though, you will be fine.
Thanks again, Roger.
I’m hard at it! Ordered mat’ls from Noble. Before delivery, got plenty time to notch studs, check slope and replace drain. That’ll keep me busy! Lew
Well Roger, here’s one more whatya think question.
Got liner mat’l, sealant etc from Noble last week. A friend of mine happened over and wanted to peak at my project.
He told me he thought I outta be concearned about the existing shower floor not being connected to the rest of house slab; thinks it could sink on me later. My responce was that it had been there 13 yrs w/ no signs of sinking.
He thinks I should tear out the whole floor and start anew; repouring, using rebar to strengthen and tie to house slab.
I somewhat see the validity of his point, but not particularly crazy about the added labor. Should this be given any consideration? Thanx – Lew
Hey Lew,
I don’t think you need to be concerned with the floor not being “attached” to the rest of the slab. If anything were to be seriously wrong I’m fairly certain it would have failed by now.
That said, I absolutely believe the best thing to do would be to tear it all out and start from scratch. But, I also realize due to time and monetary concerns this is not always an option for everyone. The fix you propose would last quite a few years but would eventually need to be replaced. I don’t believe it would be due to anything drastic happening, but replaced nonetheless.
The final decision rests with you. I’m certain you would end up more satisfied if you start all over. But, like I said, time or money constraints may eliminate that possibility.
I know that isn’t really much help. Let me know what you decide to do.
Hey Roger,
Well, amongst other chores I continue on w/ my shower re-work. Discovered original floor wasn’t properly sloped, thus opted to tear out and re-pour.
All went well.
Prior to install of pre-slope, am in somewhat of a quandry over the curb. What exists is 3 stacked pt 2×4’s covered w/ 1/2″ cbu. Really can’t reuse this configuration since there will be no way of wrapping the liner w/o nailing thru it when reattaching new cbu. Should I consider doing away w/ the 2x’s and rebuild with brick? My height can’t vary since a solid glass door is sized to curb’s existing height. Sure do not want to buy a new one of those!! Then, if I do go to brick, how is wrapping of the liner accomplished; is it adhered to the brick?
Think this might be the final hurdle if you could guide me as to the curb. Thanx once again – Lew
Hey Lew,
You should rebuild it with brick. No part of a shower should be built with PT wood, it will shrink and twist as it releases moisture, that affects everything installed to it.
Once you get the bricks installed (you can do that with your thinset) you can wrap the liner up and over them and then get some metal lathe (diamond lathe) and bend it in the shape of your curb. Place that around your curb carefully as to not puncture your liner and the lathe will hold it’s shape and hold the liner in place. Then just mud the curb, let it set, and tile away.
Thanx, that sure sounds good -
Had given lathe a fleeting thought, but got scared off considering it would effect curb height, jeopardizing reuse of the glass door.
Finally realized that brick is some 1/2″ thicker than a 2x. So, using brick 2 high would put me 3/4″ below original (adding the 1/2″ cbu which topped the 2x’s). Do you think lathe, mud, thinset and tile will bring me within 1/4″ of the door sweep? If nec, can 1/4″ cbu be sandwiched w/ the brick?
I probably being overly cautious, but not being able to reuse the door IS NOT an option. Gonna await the “go sign” from you before I get going. Certainly appreciate your input. Lew
Hey Lew,
I think I would be more inclined to just add 1/2″ of mud to the top of the curb to bring it up to the height you need.
If you want to you could use cbu attached to the top of your curb to bring the height up to where it needs to be though. I would do it that way but you could sandwich it if you wanted to.
Hi there! Great info! My current issue is that I’m trying to get the following tile installed:
old-style unglazed porcelain rectified pinwheel tile (the ivory ground with a black square in the middle)
Well, the tilers did seal the tiles before installation, but during the grouting process, the charcoal colored grout I chose imbedded itself in the tiny micropores on the top of the tile. They tried so hard to get most of it off that the 1/16″ grout lines ended up being much shallower than expected (where you can feel/see the edges of the tile…also causing a pocket for any and all kinds of dirt to collect). The wanted to acid etch the grout lines to put more grout in there, but after everything I’ve read, I told them I’m not comfy w/ that. I spent all day on Saturday trying to saw out the grout w/ a grout saw, but the lines were pretty narrow and alllllllll the little lines around the black square in the middle…grrrrrrr. I decided after doing about 1/4 of the floor that I couldn’t take it anymore, and thought maybe we just need to start over (at mostly my expense since I realized it was a risk to pick that tile).
I absolutely love the tile and am prepared to buy more to start over, but I’m afraid that the issues we encountered will happen again. So, first of all…is there a product that will not allow the grout to get imbedded into the tile during grout installation (for instance, Aldon Grout Easy)? I’ve read about the product; sounds good…like it will do what I need, but if it comes off during the normal cleaning of the grout after installation, then seems like you would still have the staining problem at the end when you’re wiping it up. I haven’t been able to find any reviews on it.
Also, is there a trick to not overwork the grout during cleanup so the grout remains at the right height? And, they did use unsanded grout…do you recommend we use epoxy instead?
And lastly…should I just stay away from this tile? I really love it for my 1929 home, but can it ever come out right? As cool as it looks, should I just decide not to use charcoal colored grout next time?
Okay…really lastly…what is your favorite product for getting grout haze off tile after installation? I was down to full vinegar, a brush, and some magic eraser pads. This did pretty well…just not in the pits.
Thanks a bunch!
Robin
Hi Robin,
Sorry to hear about your problems, that sucks. What type of sealer did your installers use? That should have been enough to remove the grout from the face of the tile without many problems. At this point you may want to try some sulfamic acid which you can pick up at Home Depot or any big box or hardware store. Make sure you try it in an inconspicuous spot first to make sure it doesn’t harm the tile at all, it shouldn’t.
The problem I hear more than that, though, is the low grout lines. The grout has to be removed from at least 2/3 of the line to regrout it.
If you choose to redo the entire thing I would probably place two coats of a topical sealer and test to make sure the grout won’t fill pits in the top. A grout remover may work for you.
You may also want to check into the Laticrete one-step installation method. This is a method by which the grout color is added to the actual thinset then you would essentially set and grout at the same time. Just google it, you’ll find a lot of info about it even though it is relatively new. If you choose to go that route I would get contact paper and place it over the front of every sheet to keep the grout/thinset off the face of it. The grout/thinset actually enters the grout lines from the back as it is set.
Hope that helps, let me know what you end up doing so it maybe would help someone else in the future.
You have done an incredible job on this site. I have been in the industry for 24 years and have concentrated on the highest quality and your knowledge and insight is on the money. I commend you for excellent work.
Thank you Dan. Your comments are appreciated very much.