Finished tiled shower ceilingMichael has recently pointed out (a bit more eloquently than I would have) that I have indeed been a lazy bastard and have not yet written this post. Apparently people actually want to know how to do stuff I do – weird, right? So here you go – making your ceiling shiny.

The main problem people have with tiling a ceiling is getting the tile to stay where they put it. Believe me, I’ve had more than one tile fall on my noggin before I figured out what works. Since I’m relatively certain you aren’t very interested in what doesn’t work I’ll tell you what does, it saves headaches – literally.

You do not need a $75 bag of non-sag thinset to tile a ceiling. Non-sag thinset is basically just thinset that is sticky – it’s great stuff! It’s also expensive stuff. You can accomplish the same with the $15 bag of regular modified thinset.

Before you start hanging head-bashers (ceiling tile) you should, as always, have the substrate properly prepared. They do not always need to be waterproof. It’s a good idea and never hurts, but it isn’t always necessary. The photos of the shower I have here was in a small bathroom with limited ventilation so I waterproofed the ceiling as well.

Burning thinset into the substrate

Photo 1

You should always ensure that the ceiling substrate is screwed onto the joists securely. There is a whole different set of physics at work on a horizontal surface that don’t apply to your vertical wall tile. Basically the entire weight of the full tile is pulling constantly on every inch of your tile. So you want whatever it is attached to securely fastened.

Back of ceiling tile

Photo 2

Thinset burned into the back of the tile

Photo 3

The first thing we’re gonna do is burn your thinset into the ceiling substrate – in this case it’s Kerdi. ‘Burning’ thinset into something simply means using the flat side of your trowel and skim-coating the surface. I use the term a lot and that’s all it means. It fills all the areas of your substrate or tile (whatever you’re burning it into) and ensures that your thinset gets a good grab on whatever it is. Photo 1 shows about half of the ceiling with thinset burned into it.

Thinset burned into the back of the tile

Photo 4

Photo 2 shows the back of one of the tiles we’re installing on the ceiling. See all those white lines? Those are actually raised just the tiniest bit so the back of the tile is not entirely smooth. You need to burn thinset onto the back of the tile. This will fill all those little squares and ensure that you have every area on the back of your tile adhering to thinset. You want to give it every square inch possible to grab onto that ceiling. Photos 3 and 4 show the tile with thinset burned into the back.

Thinset combed onto the back of the tile

Photo 5

Now you want to flip your trowel over and comb thinset onto the back of the tile. “Combing” thinset is another term I use often – it just means using the notched side of your trowel to, well, comb the little lines all in the same direction. That is – wait for it – Photo 5. You are not allowed to give me crap about my lack of photo labeling originality!

Bullseye combed into the back of the tile

Photo 6

Now we get to the secret ingredient of ceiling tile installation – suction! All that thinset you combed into pretty little lines on the back of your tile? Take the end of your trowel and draw a bulls-eye in it like Photo 6 (believe it or not I was totally sober when I drew that ‘circle’). This bulls-eye is what keeps the tile from dropping on your head – because that hurts like hell. You should just take my word for it on that one without testing it for yourself.

Tile stuck to ceiling of shower

Photo 7

Now that you have your bulls-eye on the back of your tile go ahead and press it up onto your ceiling. (Photo 7) You want to push hard! You will actually hear air squishing out from inside that circle of thinset. This creates suction on the back of your tile and helps the tile stay put until the thinset cures. Once that happens it doesn’t matter what shape your thinset is on the back. The suction is needed to keep it there only until the thinset is cured.

Ceiling partially tiled

Photo 8

Continue to do this with the rest of your ceiling tile – every one of them, even the cut tiles. Draw the bulls-eye and stick it up, draw the bulls-eye and stick it up, etc., etc. To get them to stay in the proper spot with correct grout line size and lined up you can actually stick spacers in them (Photo 8 ) and use blue painter’s tape to keep them in the proper spot relative to one another. Just get a piece of tape about 3 -4 inches long and stick half of it to one tile then pull that tile slightly toward the one next to it and stick the tape to the next one. This will keep each tile tightly against the spacer and the tile next to it so your grout lines don’t go all wonky. (Did I just type ‘wonky’??? Jesus…)

You do not need to comb thinset onto the ceiling. I know that sounds counter-intuitive but simply burning the thinset into the substrate will give you plenty of grab onto the tile. You do not need to be concerned with 100% support as you would on a floor – no one will walk on your ceiling except Spiderman – he’s an ass sometimes. But he always pays to replace any ceiling tile he cracks.

Once you get all your tile up there you can still push them upward to get them flat with each other. Just lay your straight-edge across them as you would on a floor and make any adjustments needed. You do not want to pull them down to adjust them! You will lose the suction doing this. You want them really close to flat before you make any final adjustments.

Completed tiled shower ceiling

Photo 9

You can see in Photo 9 (if you click on it) that there are two tiles that have slightly low corners which I still need to push up (they’re in the back row – the left corner of tile two and the entire front edge of tile four). Always push up to make adjustments. If your tile is way out of whack pull it down as you are setting them to add or take away thinset on the back. Do not pull them down once you have them all set and taped.

That’s it. That’s how you get tile to stick on the ceiling with regular thinset. Easy. Okay, it’s easy for me. You may have a bit of a learning curve.

There are two basic designs for your ceiling tile. You can either line up all the grout lines (which requires planning!) or you can install the ceiling tile on-point (diagonally). This is simply a personal preference – whichever you think would look better in your shower is the one you should choose. The photos here have all the grout lines lined up. If you do not install your ceiling tile diagonally please line up your grout lines. If you don’t it looks like crap – that simple.

When installing tile on the ceiling you want to install the tile on the shower walls all the way up to the last row before the ceiling – as I’ve done in these photos. If you are lining up your grout lines rather than installing them diagonally you can then draw lines on your ceiling as guides to where your tiles should be. You don’t see lines in these photos because I use a laser – I’m Star Wars-ey like that. 8)

Once you get all your ceiling tile up then install your last row of wall tile. This will help hold all the tile around the edges as well. Be sure not to cut the last row of wall tile so that it barely fits in there! You need an expansion joint of about 1/16″ and you do not want the pressure of a wall tile that is not short enough pushing one side of the ceiling tile up – the other side will push down – leverage, you know. Cut them about 1/16″ shorter (plus your regular grout line size for the line below it)  than your measurement and use plastic wedges for that gap. And when you are finished – caulk or silicone that space, don’t grout it.

The thinset I’m using is a basic modified thinset – nothing special. It’s Versabond which is commonly sold at Home Depot. You should know this, just to avoid confusion about an issue that is confusing enough anyway. Schluter recommends UNmodified thinset for the Kerdi membrane. If you choose to use modified thinset over the kerdi membrane it will void your warranty! Just be aware of that.

I use modified for two reasons: 1) I prefer modified thinset for everything – period. I give my own warranty to my customers which happens to be longer than Schluter’s warranty anyway. I take that risk and choose to do so – consciously. Should you choose to use modified thinset over kerdi you should be aware of this. And no – it does not create any problems that I have ever been aware of. Doesn’t mean it won’t, just means I have never heard of it. And 2) I’m a rebel like that. 8)

If you have any questions at all please feel free to leave a comment and ask there – I’ll respond when I sober up! The gist of this post was shrunk down into a handy little four paragraph email for TileTips. You can click that link for more information or simply sign up in the box at the top right (under the pretty picture).

This post was brought to life by the suggestion of one of my readers in a comment. I really do read them! So I would like to thank Michael for kicking me in the ass and making me do something productive! My wife thanks you, too. If there is a particular subject you would like to see a post about just let me know – I’m a wealth of useless information.

UPDATE! A lot of people have asked me if their particular size of tile would work using this method – yes, it will. The size of the tile is rarely a factor. Think about it like this: A 2′ x 2′ tile is four square feet. If one square foot of tile weighs five pounds and one 2′ x 2′ tile weighs twenty pounds – it still weighs five pounds / square foot. It weighs the same – it just takes up more area at once.

Here are some photos of some 2′ x 2′ tiles I installed on a ceiling – they weighed 23 lbs. each! And they hung up there just fine. So if you think you’ll have problems with your little 18″ tiles – well, you won’t. :D

 

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  • The cartpenter

    Really like your posts. Used your advise for a shower pan and it came out great.
    My question is about applying stone pencil moulding to walls and more importantly the ceiling. With the lack of surface for the thinset to stick to and create a suction (I am guessing) what application method would you recommend? Thanks.

    • Roger

      I would use a non-sag thinset, make sure to work it back and forth to get full coverage, and use blue painters tape to help hold it up until it cures.

      Why in the hell are you installing pencil rail on a ceiling??? :D

  • Bob

    I had a guy tile my shower including the ceiling. He used 12″ squares of 2″x2″ mosaic over hardy backer screwed to the ceiling. Long story short some joints are off and it looks like crap. My question is can I tile over this tile without having to tear it all out.

    • Roger

      Hi Bob,

      You can, but it’ll be a bigger pain in the ass than tearing it out and replacing the substrate. Completely up to you.

  • Linda Brown

    I’m tiling a shower ceiling. This was very helpful. Thank you.

  • Drew

    I really appreciate these instructions, thank you

  • Dennis

    Roger, I need your expert advice. I’m tiling a tub surround and was planing on tiling to the ceiling. Problem is that the ceiling is uneven by 3/8″ left to right. Should I take down the ceiling a shim the joists for new drywall to make it level? Should i scribe the last row of tile to the ceiling? Or should i put drywall up about a foot and a half down from the ceiling and stop my tile there? The latter is how my old surround was tiled. Thank You.

    • Roger

      Hi Dennis,

      I still haven’t ever seen a level ceiling – it’s ‘normal’. :D You can do any of those, I normally just scribe the tile to the ceiling. Just make sure that you lay out your tile to have at least a half a tile at the top row, otherwise that scribe is gonna stick out like a neon sign.

  • Jim

    Your the best…irreverent, extremely knowledgeable, willing to share that knowledge. Three questions:
    1. With polyethylene plastic sheet as vapor barrier between ceiling joists and Hardibacker 500 is there advantage to still regard the Hardie backer?
    2. Does cured thinset adhere to Redgard as well as directly to the cement of the Hardiebacker?
    3. Home Depot guy recommended a modified thinset called FLEXBOND (a crack prevention mortar that can supposedly flex up to 1/16″ of movement. OK for shower ceiling? Using 12×24″ tiles).

    Thanks!

    • Roger

      Hi Jim,

      1. You’ll have the waterproofing directly beneath your tile, rather than your substrate being saturated before it reaches your barrier. Not really necessary on ceilings, though. If you use redgard you DO NOT want the plastic behind it. One or the other, never both.

      2. Yes.

      3. It’s fine for a shower ceiling, as is just about any thinset on the planet.

  • Amanda

    So after reading this post, I have one question based on the project that my husband and I are doing. Right now we have the entire shower green boarded. We are planning to use the Schluter Kerdi Shower Kit for the walls and hoping that the ceiling will work with that too. So the main question is; Does the kerdi work with ceiling and would you think 12x 24 tiles are too big for the ceiling?

    Any suggestions would be helpful.

    • Roger

      Hi Amanda,

      Yes, the kerdi will work for the ceiling. The 2×2 tiles that I have a photo of at the end of the article are larger than yours – twice as big. So no, I don’t thing 12×24 tiles are too large. :D I would make sure that your framing behind that ceiling is very stout, though. And it would be better to replace the greenboard with cement backerboard, but it isn’t required. I’d still feel better that way, though.

  • Dean

    Can I tile over a textured ceiling or do I need to put up new drywall?

    • Roger

      Hi Dean,

      Most of the tile you can go ahead and tile right over it.

  • Kevin

    I am installing the tile that looks like wood. Would multiple circles work on a tile that is 6″ X 3′?

    • Roger

      Hi Kevin,

      Yes it will, but there really isn’t too much of a need to use a bulls-eye on skinny tile like that, regular troweling on the back of the tile should work just as well.

  • Chris

    Great read and appreciate the humor. As a roofing/siding contractor most of my life, I find myself wanting to keep my tired old feet on the ground these days. So I’ve been taking on kitchens & bathroom work for quite a while. I’ve done my fair share of tile( even impressed myself a few times), but never really knew how to price labor for it. The information varies widely on thus subject. Can you tell me what labor on a standard size tub/shower tile job should cost? Let’s say 6″ tile walls& ceiling. I’m in NJ. Don’t want to short myself or price myself out of work!

    • Roger

      Hi Chris,

      There is no standard answer – at all. I have charged anywhere from 1200 up to 7500. It depends on the tile, the waterproofing method, the amount of time, the intricacy, etc. Even with standard tile there is no standard answer. Figure out what you need to make per day, and how many days it’ll take you. Add your overhead to that and that’s a good starting point.

  • Matt

    Hi, Roger.
    Thanks so much for this and everything else on this site.

    I have a square exhaust fan in the shower ceiling. What’s your opinion on the best way to handles that?

    Tile right onto a redgarded drywall after burn thinset?

    Attach durock over sheetrock then go from there?

    Attach hardiebacker board over drywall and go from there?

    Thanks,
    Matt

    • Roger

      Hi Matt,

      Unless you have a drop header across your shower entrance, which would trap steam and vapor at the ceiling, you can redgard over the drywall and tile that. If you do have a drop header you need to remove the drywall, replace it with backer, redgard that then tile.

      • Charlie

        Ok, I’m pretty sure she and I agreed to a smooth, drywall ceiling at the beginning. Now she hates it. I had already put up greenboard, primed, and painted (gloss). Since reading all these, I’ve used a drywall sanding screen to “rough it up”, put in a bunch more screws, and rolled a thin layer of redguard over all of it. I plan on rolling more on, mainly cause I have it but also to be sure. I plan on using 1″ square natural stone, 12″ tiles. After I finish the redguard again, do I trowel on thinset, (on the ceiling) notch that and apply the tiles or do I still need thinset on the back of all those little squares? Sorry about the long blah blah blah !!

        • Roger

          You do not need to apply thinset to the back of those mosaics (lucky you!). When you put them up there you need to ensure that every piece is embedded, especially around the edges. If one or two of them let go it can pull the entire sheet off the ceiling – and that’s a mess. :D

          • Mike

            what size trowel notch should I use for the ceiling for a 12″x12″ mosaic with 3″ hexagons?

  • David

    Tiling a 37 degree sloped ceiling over a shower/tub with 6″x3″ subway tiles. Can I bulls-eye such a small tile with a common trowel… or maybe need to cut a trowel to an 1 1/2 to 2″ ?

    • Roger

      Hi David,

      No need to bullseye tile that small. Just comb the thinset on the ceiling, backbutter each tile and press/wiggle it in there. It’ll stay just fine.

  • Squirrel

    What about mosaic tiles for ceiling, …. those would be some small bullseyes?!?

    • Roger

      Hi Squirrel,

      Yes they would be! Just combing the thinset on the ceiling will hold up mosaics. Just be sure to embed every one, if one corner lets go it’ll pull down the whole sheet.

  • Cris Vazquez

    What to use to make a hole in tiles like the water valves, and shower jets?

    • Roger

      Hi Cris,

      A diamond tipped hole saw. Google ’tile hole saw’

  • Wendy

    I read that the larger tiles still retain the weight/ft^2 and I understand that. However, I’m still concerned. I am using 16x24x3/4 travertine that seems really heavy to me. It is a thick tile and feels heavier than other tiles of the same size. Am I flirting with disaster using this in my shower ceiling?

    • Roger

      Hi Wendy,

      The photo at the bottom of the page has tiles which are 1/2″ thick and 2′ square. I installed them with non-modified thinset and they are still hanging there seven years later. Properly installed, provided your ceiling is fastened properly, you won’t have any problem at all.

      • Wendy

        Thank you! I appreciate it. That travertine feels so heavy!!

  • Nicole Wagner

    Should/could I use Red Guard on the existing ceiling drywall then apply 4″x 4″ ceramic tile? Don’t really want to tear down ceiling and replace with cement board if I don’t need to.

    • Roger

      Hi Nicole,

      Yes you can.

  • Colin

    Can I still do the ceiling after it has been painted

    • Roger

      Hi Colin,

      Yes, but you should sand the surface to scuff it up a bit to ensure a good grip for your thinset.

  • Douglas

    I was told to attach copper wire ties to 12×24 pieces of marble and screw the other end to the ceiling through a loop on the other end before pressing with Thinset to the ceiling. I was going to use unsanded white thinset with binder mixed in. What is your tar on this?

    • Roger

      Hi Douglas,

      That sounds ridiculous to me. :) Have you ever seen what color copper turns after exposure to water for a while? That’s the color your marble is going to end up. I would not do that! The bulls-eye method works really well, even with marble. :D

  • Scott

    Which should be installed first ..the wall tiles or the ceiling tiles?
    Thanks, Scott

    • Roger

      Hi Scott,

      I do the walls up to the last row, install the ceiling, then finish the walls. So I have the ceiling first (technically). But it doesn’t really matter, I just prefer the way it looks.

  • John

    I’ve followed your technique on our basement shower with great success. Now I’m working on a 2nd shower and I have 2 ceiling tiles that have each dropped 1/8″ in one corner. The first two tiles (12″ x 24″) were fine. The second 2 tiles (also 12″ x 24″) each have a 4″ hole for pot lights. The hole has roughly 4″ border, except for the long side. I did 2 bulls-eye with the trowel on each tile, but the 2nd bulls eye just circled around the hole. I noticed that one corner close to the hole was dropping, so I propped it up with a floor to ceiling piece of wood.

    When I checked this morning, this propping didn’t seem to work fully, and while for both tiles the full side (no holes) of the tiles are secured 3/8″ depth, 1/4″ tile plus 1/8″ mortar, the far corner (with the hole), have dipped so tile is 1/2″ depth (1/4″ tile, 1/8-1/4″ mortar).

    The tile seems secure. Can I build up the burning in so the adjacent tile is more level with this dropping tile, or do I need to rip it out and redo ? Tile was affixed with laticrete 317 on kerdi.

    • Roger

      Hi John,

      You can build up mortar on the adjacent tiles to flush them with the installed tile.

  • charlie

    great information. and clearly explained. my walls are already tiled, so the ceiling is an after thought. do I need to do anything different ?

    • Roger

      Hi Charlie,

      Nope, everything is the same.

  • Jan

    Does it matter how much time between burning and combing? Does it have to cure, or stay wet, or tacky, or does that matter at all?

    • Roger

      Hi Jan,

      It’s best if it’s still wet when you install the tile, but it doesn’t have to be. You can install it after the burned-in thinset cures if you need to.

  • Aaron Mathis

    Thanks for dumbing it down really. Building my own house and half the crap I look up it is so hard to follow. Very helpful.

  • Lianne

    Thanks for posting. Think I’m going to wear a hard hat when I do mine though in case I don’t press hard enough. I have the upper body strength of a gerbil. By that I don’t mean pound for pound, I mean I have met gerbils who could out bench me! :shades:

  • Mark

    Great article. Very well done. Thanks for the help!