Installing the tile
So now that you have a big waterproofed hole in your shower wall whaddya gonna do with it? (If you do not have a waterproof hole in your wall start with Building a Shower Niche Part 1 and Building a Shower Niche Part 2.) I’ll just kick back and finish my beer Pepsi while you read those.
Once your niche space is waterproofed you can do just about anything you want with it as far as design is concerned. That is not to say you should cut out and build the niche space then decide what to do with it – you need to know what you’re going to do with it before you start.
Run tile up to niche sides
The niche I’m using for these posts is simply an empty shelf in the wall. There are no additional shelves or design elements incorporated into it. We’ll get to that in a bit. This one is very simple, though. We will just place one full tile in the back and install bullnose pieces on the sides.
You can start by running the remainder of the wall tile up to and around the bottom of the niche and the sides. (I did not do both sides of my niche yet because of the distance to the back wall – you should.) Do not run the tile over the top of the niche yet.
If you’ve planned it correctly your grout lines should be lined up with the top and bottom of the niche like they are in the photo. Depending on your layout, design, or framing this is not always possible but if you can line them up it looks better most of the time.
I’ve built this niche to be the exact size of one full tile and exactly as deep as the bullnose is wide. The overall size is 13 x 13 x 3 inches. We will install the full piece on the back wall first. With the field tile installed up to the niche you will notice that there is actually more than three inches from the back of the niche to the face of the field tile – that’s normal, don’t panic.
Photo 1 - Spotting the back of the tile
To enable you to adjust the back piece of tile we need to install it differently than normal. We will not be simply spreading the thinset on the wall and back-buttering the tile and slamming it in there. If you do that you will never be able to adjust it. What we need to do with the back piece is called ‘spotting’ the tile. Place five big globs (that word just made me giggle – I don’t know why) of thinset onto the back of the tile like photo 1.
Spotting the tile will allow you to move the tile in or out and make small adjustments to get your bullnose absolutely even with the field tile. If you install it normally (with full coverage) any adjustments would be impossible.
Placing the back wall tile in the niche
Place that tile into the back of your niche. Do not push it all the way in yet! Get it to about 2 3/4″ back from the face of the field tile. In other words you want the space from the face of the tile on the outside wall to the tile in the back of the niche to be about 2 3/4″.
If you push it back any further than that it will not be out far enough to contact the back of the bullnose piece and you will have a space between the back and bullnose piece. If it is too far back at any point you will need to start over. Pulling it out is a pain in the ass – so don’t do that.
Now start with the bottom piece of bullnose. Just backbutter the tile and stick it onto the bottom part of the niche.
Bottom piece of bullnose installed
Notice in the photo above how the front of the bullnose is not yet flush with the field tile? That’s the way it should look when you first get it in there. Now you want to SLOWLY AND CAREFULLY wiggle the back piece of tile back and forth just enough to make the bullnose flush with the field tile. Remember, if you go too far you get to start all over. Unlike most things do-overs in tile installation aren’t always a good thing.
Concentrate mostly on the bottom of that back piece, we’ll take care of the top after we get the bottom flush. When it is flush you should place a small level on the bullnose piece to ensure that you still have the small slope towards the front so water drains properly.
Bottom piece of bullnose installed flush
When you have the bottom piece installed you need to install the top piece next. The niche tile installation should be completed in this order so that when you install the side pieces they will support the top piece without any additional bracing. So what are you waiting for? Get the damn thing in there already.
Top piece of bullnose installed
Since there is no tile above your niche to gauge how far to push it in we need to figure out another way to do it. Lucky you! I’ve already done that. Take your straight-edge or level and place it against the face of your field tile from below the niche to above the niche. You should lay it so that the entire front of the niche is flat and flush. You will probably need to wiggle it back and forth to get everything pushed back flush. You can also hold a scrap piece of tile up above the top piece of bullnose to ensure it is in the correct place.
Once you get the top piece in there you need to measure and cut the side pieces. Measure and mark the cuts for the bottom of the side pieces. The measurements at the back of the niche will be different than the front due to the small slope of the bottom piece. If you try to cut the top of the side pieces they will not fit correctly.
Side pieces of bullnose installed
Now take your straight-edge or level and place it against the face of your field tile and niche in several different directions to make sure everything is flush and even.
And there you have it – rubber ducky storage!
Tiling the niche is complete
Now at this point you can either let it set overnight and cure fully so nothing moves as you are finishing the remainder of the tile, or you can go ahead and finish the tile now.
Due to the order in which you’ve placed the bullnose pieces in the niche you can go ahead and place the tile over the top of it and the top bullnose piece will support it since it is braced by the side pieces.
Be aware, however, that before the thinset is fully cured there will probably be movement in one direction or another as you are working around your niche. So pay close attention to anything that moves and make sure you either brace them to remain where you want them or use some blue painters tape to hold them in place. Believe me, it sucks when you come back the next day and something has moved.
I was going to describe different layout and design choices but I’m already half drunk this post is already so long I’ll just put all that in a separate post. With my tendency to babble endlessly give you as much information as possible I’m certain that post will be long enough anyway.
If you simply want a square niche the size of one tile that is as far as you need to go. The entire process is there. If, however, you want all that fancy-ass stuff like listellos, shelves, arches, or any of that you should probably read the next post before starting. Either way, take a break. Too much of a good thing can be draining.
I’ll leave you with a photo of the completed shower with the niche I’ve used for all these posts. If you look closely, or you know, click on the damn thing, you will actually see two of them – one on each wall. If you want that just start at the beginning and repeat, but turn around and face the other wall first. 
Add a Brilliant Retort
Roger,
I’m going to have 2 niches, on on top of the other. They’ll be 13″ tall as that is the size of the tile I’m working with. How do I create a shelf between them? I’ve seen you mention before that you could just use 2 tiles back to back to create the shelf, but how does that span across the entire width of the niche if it’s 13″ wide as well?
Thanks
If your niche is 13 inches wide, your tile goes in the back and the tile on the sides will be inside that 13 inch mark. In other words – if your tile is 3/8″ thick, a 13 inch wide niche will be only 12 1/4 inches wide after you install the tiles on the sides of the niche. The shelf rests on that 3/4″ of support – 3/8″ on each side.
Ok, maybe a silly quesion but my “12″ inch tile is really 11 3/4. Do I still space my framing 13 inches?
Hey Brooke,
Nope. Whatever size one full tile plus one inch (for 1/2″ substrate on each side). So in your case 12 3/4″. That is for a perfect fit. To have a little wiggle room you can make it 13″. The tile on the sides will cover the extra on the back.
Help! Can’t find part 4. :-/ We are trying to figure out how to build the little shelf inside the niche properly. Thanks!
http://floorelf.com/how-to-build-a-niche-for-your-shower4
Roger
I’m thinking about the grout line around the niche. The untiled edge of the niche is lined up with the grout line of the field tiles, and the edge of the wall tiles adjoining the niche are flush with the untiled edges of the niche. Then when I install the tile on the sides of the niche, the bottom of those tiles will be separated from the wall tiles by the thickness of the thinset on those tiles. I am using 1/16 grout lines, and the thinset is normally quite a bit thicker than 1/16. Isn’t that going to make a wider grout line around the niche? Is that going to look OK?
Should the niche side, top & bottom tiles be epoxied in?
How do I handle this issue?
Thanks!
Hey Larry,
No need to epoxy the niche tile. Also no need to have that much thinset beneath the tile inside the niche. If there is too much gap you can press the front of the niche pieces down (or to the side) to lessen that gap. Since the inside niche tiles don’t need to be perfectly flush with much of anything you can adjust them as needed without it ever being noticed.
I found a tile line that I want to use, but they don’t have a billboard tile. How do you suggest I complete the niche instead of using a bullnose tile?
Hey Demetrius,
Normally the field tile has one edge that is glazed. If you want square edges you can just use that edge. You can also use one of Schluter’s metal trims to frame the edges of the niche. Another option is to get a hold of some natural stone which matches or compliments the tile you’ve chosen. Any natural stone can be bullnosed and cut to size to finish off the niche.
I just fired my contractor who was installing a new bathtub and tiling the shower. While installing the bathtub, he did not secure tub to any studs and he used concrete instead of mortar under the bathtub. He also did not place the Hardie Board on top of the lid of the bathtub, or apply any moisture barrier to the Hardie Board. He built two niches which are out of place and have too much of a slope. My questions are:
1) Is the tub going to crack or break the tile not being secure to any studs?
2) Is the concrete under the tub going to ruin it?
3) By not placing the Hardie Board on top of the lid of the bathtub will this cause moisture in the walls?
4) Can I apply some type of moisture barrier over the already laid tile?
5) How can I fix the slope of the niche?
This is my first remodeling project and I’m scared. I don’t know what to do. I’m afraid of mold and any leaks that might occur in the future. My last step is to grout myself, but I don’t want to do it without fixing some of these problems that I can fix. I can’t afford hiring another person to come out to take my money without doing a proper job so I’m on my own.
Thank you for any advice that you can give.
Dorinne
Hi Dorinne,
1. It depends on how much the tub moves. If it is firmly against the studs and doesn’t move it should be fine. If it does move then it needs to be secured to the studs.
2. No, concrete is fine. As long as it is properly supporting the tub it will be fine.
3. It may cause moisture to run between the tub and wall which may lead to problems.
4. No, there is nothing that you can put over already installed tile that will waterproof your installation.
5. You’ll need to take out at least the bottom piece, and likely the sides as well, and re-install them with a proper slope.
Roger,
Thank you so much for all your help. When the time comes to redo my master bathroom, I will definitely be doing it MYSELF of course with your website handy at all times
Hi Roger,
Doing the niche and have done 2 coats of redguard and ready to do third and realized when I framed niche and placed hardiboard I left studs 3.5 inches and did not put in filler as you have suggested. I do not want sliver so here is my question. Before I do 3rd coat can I add 1/2 in. hardi over present hardi(that has been taped and redguarded) in back then tape and do the 3 coats of redguard on back part of niche. This will then allow me to bring bullnose to where it should be.
If not what would you suggest.
Thanks for anticipated answer and your continued help.
Dick
That will work just fine. You can install it in there however you want as long as you’re gonna redgard the new piece as well.
3 coats of light redguard. The pieces fit great now. Thank you. I found a piece of marble type 12×12 and I am going to use it on floor of niche.(HD) Should I double the piece or just cut one piece from 12 x12 and leave it at that. Cheap way to add a different look.(I think)
Wanted to make the piece a bit richer looking without spending 20 dollars on granite etc.Any suggestions? Thanks Roger.
Hi Roger,
Back again and have completed niche with thinset. Question: I have border tiles up to 3 inches from niche. I have a predicament. Do I take a third of a tile and make another border with field tiles on top that will bring me to even grout line with bottom of niche or continue with field tiles on top of 1st border and cut around niche but will have grout line with 8 inch tiles 1/3 the way up. This is confusing so I do apologize. I wish I could send picture.
You did say there were situations when grout lines may not meet at bottom of niche. Any help would be appreciate. If you aren’t confused now you are a genius.
Thanks,
Dick
You can use a full tile on top of the border and just have the grout line fall where it may or you can split the difference between the top of the border and the grout line at the very top of the niche (you didn’t state how high that is from the top of the border). Take the measurement between the top of the border and the top of the niche and split that evenly with the tile in between them. If you place a three-inch strip of field tile above the border then continue up as normal it will probably stick out like a sore thumb. Having a full tile there and the grout line not line up would be MUCH less noticeable.
If that explanation didn’t confuse you YOU’RE a genius.
Great. I was going yo do it your way but needed some added assistance. Thank you for all your great advice. I always have thought you were a genuine genius.
Thanks again.
Dick
Roger,
Great information. When I do my niche what do you use to cut the hardiboard inside the shower stall without making a big mess so that the lines line up. I have the hardi up to a point approximately within 3 inches to where the lines will meet
I appreciate this site and all your expertise.
Dick
You will not be able to cut it without making a mess, it’s hardi, you’re gonna make a mess.
I use a roto-zip with a ceramic bit on it. You can score and snap it, and yes, it’s a pain. But short of power tools that’s about it. Just score your lines until it’s almost all the way through the board, then snap it back into the wall.
Roger,
Sounds like I will go over and over with utility knife and snap toward wall as you said(my house, will take my time). I love those niches with shelves. How high do you make top part on average and bottom for soap and razor? Going to give it a try.
Thanks again for info.
Dick
I usually have at least three to four inches high for a smaller portion for a soap and razor.
Thanks Roger. I appreciate your getting back to me and having patience. I now have to have plumber come in to extend shower valve because with hardi and tile wall comes out further. Had fiberglass shower before.
I also have to make a 4 inch wall to accomodate my shower door on curb of shower. Do I need to put plastic barrier on the inside section toward shower where tile and hardiboard will be? I assume I do.
Thanks again.
Hi Dick,
If you mean the inside of the shower curb then no – your waterproof liner should wrap up and over to the outside of the curb, that waterproofs it. If you mean on the wall then yes, everything behind the tile substrate needs a barrier unless you are using a topical membrane.
Thank you again. I hope you are getting a lot of jobs because if you were in my area of country I would recommend you to everyone. I do have a good tile guy who did my pan(great job) but I like the way you have attention to details.
Dick
Hi Roger,
I had to add about 6-8 inches of 2×4 to ceiling so I could eventually put in a shower door 30 inches. wide(so I could clear a baseboard when opening shower door).
Placed silicone on threshold curb that was made from bricks(instead of 2×4′s) and liner on top. Screwed into wall and ceiling but only silicone on curb because I was afraid to use tapcon onto brick due to liner.
1. Making transition from outside to inside from greenboard to hardibacker(corner to corner), do I use cornerbead?
2. On corners with hardi do I just use tape on outside corner or do it like sheetrock and use corner bead?
Thanks for your anticipater response.
Dick
You can simply tape and mud either or those or use a plastic corner bead on them. If you do use a corner bead make sure you use the plastic one, it won’t be affected by moisture.
Should I use thinset when taping or a thinner cement material that is easier to work with? Thanks again
Dick
I’ve tiled floors several times, but never a shower. I’m ok with the floors, but I must admit, the shower/tub gave me some challenges. I measured, remeasured and measured again, but the tiles just didn’t line up nicely (I blame myself and my 60yr old house who’s walls and ceilings are not leveled). In any case, here’s my issue: the tiles are up, but I came up 1in short at the wall/ceiling plane change. I don’t know what to do. Should I try installing accent tile as crown molding? Do they sell waterproof crown molding that I can caulk on the tile? The same goes with the back wall/side wall plane change. There’s a slight gap that increases on the way up. Any fix besides just filling it in with grout? Thanks!!
Hey Brian,
You can get some of the crown molding that is made out of styrofoam. I know it sound weird but it’s actually pretty readily available at big box stores. It’s usually painted white. You can try that if you want to. You can also get some ceramic accent pieces like a ‘rope’ and install those up there to cover it. I would try anything rather than fill it with grout – that really looks like crap.
Hi Roger,
I’m continuing to study your niche building and have a question about the order and placement of the bottom bullnose piece and the back piece. Do you ever put the bottom piece in first so that the back piece sits on top of the bull nose piece for drainage purposes? Or is that not a big deal because it the back of a niche and there isn’t a worry about water running down the back tile piece?
Thanks again for sharing all of your knowledge.
Hey Wolfgang,
I do sometimes, depends on the layout of the niche. It has nothing to do with drainage purposes at all – your niche should be completely waterproof. If you want to do it like that it’s completely fine. I also usually put the back piece in first due to the depth of the niche. If I’m only using a single 3″ piece of bullnose and place the back tile on it you’ll lose about 1/2″ of that. As long as your niche is waterproofed and sloped correctly it doesn’t make a difference.
Thanks Roger for your response. Have a great weekend.
OK, one more question. This one has to do with the location of the niche. Our niche is going to be located on the outside wall of the house so it’s obviously a load bearing wall. The only way for the niche to line up with the other tiles and grout lines is to cut out one of the studs and add in some framing members. What is your opinion on cutting out original framing studs for the sake of lining up grout lines? I just want to put it between two existing studs which will locate the niche left of center but you-know-who wants it to line up with the other tiles – she read your 4 part series!
Hey Phil,
Tell her I said reading my four part series does not teach her how to rebuild the side of your house when it collapses.
Actually, tell her you said that – leave me out of it. I specifically put in there ‘if your wall is a load-bearing wall you can either move your niche or rebuild the side of your house – your choice’ – she skim over that part? 
My advice is this: DO NOT cut into load-bearing wall studs and compromise your house’s structural integrity in order to hide your rubber ducky! Can you shift your back wall to the left to line up with the niche without it looking goofy? Or move the niche to a different wall? Anything else would be better than cutting into that wall framing.
Roger, I’m about to start building my shampoo niche. What would you consider to be the minimum height above the shower pan that the botom of the niche should be? Or is it whatever you want it to be?
Phil
It depends on how tall your wife is.
There is no real rule to it, it’s normally whatever you think looks good. I will usually have them 3-4 feet off the floor depending on where that grout line falls.
It appears from the final picture that there is a grout line between field tiles and bullnose tile on the left, top and right sides of the niche. However, I don’t see a grout line where the bottom piece of bullnose meets the field tile. Do you just let the bottom bullnose rest on the field tile below it? If so, how is that seam filled?
Phil
Hey Phil,
There is a grout line on the bottom a well, it’s simply the high angle from which I took the photo that makes it look like there isn’t. All of those grout lines are grouted.
Thanks for these great instructions. Where you have the bullnose tiles butted up to eachother and against the back tile in the niche, do you grout where they meet or caulk it?
Hey Brian,
No problem at all. A good general rule is anywhere an inside corner meets you should use caulk or silicone rather than grout.
Just regular thinset is all you need.