How to build a shower shelfOne of my readers has handcuffed me to the radiator in her basement and won’t let me go until I describe how to build a corner shelf in her shower. And she keeps giving me dirty looks. I guess I’ll do it, then.

See those little shelves right there? (You can click on it for a larger version)  They’re made from the same tile that is on the walls – it matches that way. If you have a two-walled shower with only exterior walls it’s nearly impossible (or at least not very probable) to build a niche – frozen shampoo sucks. It’s also difficult to build niches if you have two exterior walls and one wall with all your plumbing – not much room there, either. So a corner shelf, or shelves, may be the way to go.

And they’re easy to make. And I don’t have pictures of the process.

The only difference in the way you install the tile on your walls is that you need to only install up to the row beneath where you are placing the shelf. You need to install tile up to that point on both walls that meet the corner. The bottom portion of the shelf is going to sit on top of those two rows directly against the walls in the corner. The next row of tile is then cut around and on top of the base shelf piece to lock it into the wall.

First decide how many shelves you need. Cut a full tile diagonally, corner-to-corner, in both directions. This will leave you with four identically-sized triangles of tile – these will be your shelf base, the part that’s locked into the wall.

Next you need to install the tile on both the walls that meet the corner your shelf will be in, all the way up to the row beneath your shelf. With me so far? Once you have those tiled take one of those triangle pieces you cut and flip it upside down. Set it onto the tops of the tile in the corner of the shower, the edges of the wall tile – it should just set there. You flip it upside down so you’ll have a finished surface on the underside of your shelf.

Then measure and cut the tiles for the next row that sit above the shelf. You are only notching out the tile to fit around the corner piece for the shelf. Before you install those, and as you are combing out the thinset on the wall for them, pack thinset against the wall at the back edge of the shelf base. This will  hold that piece in there until everything sets up. Then install the next row of tile on the wall.

Continue to do this until you have all the base pieces in for how ever many shelves you want. When you’re done you should have only one piece of upside-down tile in your corners for each shelf. Once that’s done we can finish up the shelves. You will need one piece of bullnose tile (the long ones with the rounded edges) for each shelf. Cut one side of it at a 45 degree angle. Now measure the front of your shelf from wall to wall – it should be just under 12 inches if you are using 12″ tile. Mark that measurement on your bullnose – measure from the pointy corner of the 45 you just cut all the way across the rounded edge. (Did I just type ‘pointy’??? Jesus…) Cut that at a 45 degree angle in the opposite direction (so it will sit on top of your shelf base wall-to- wall).

Set it up there and make sure it fits – you may have to shave a bit off of it until you get the right fit. Once you’re happy with the size of it butter the back of it with thinset (the same stuff you used to stick it to the wall) and put it on there. You will still have an open triangle in the back of the shelf behind the bullnose – just cut a smaller triangle of tile to fit in there and install it to finish your shelf.

That’s it – let it cure and grout everything up. Grout between the tiles on the front edge of the shelf – you can use caulk there if you want to, but it isn’t necessary, it’s not going anywhere. You do not need to use bullnose on the front edge if you don’t want to – it just looks better that way. If you want to simply use the square edge of the tile that’s fine, it won’t hurt anything. Just cut the top shelf piece to the correct size (it will be smaller than the base piece) and install it.

How to build a shower shelfYou can also cut into the tile beneath the shelf for the base if you want to. Like the top shelf in the photo above or the shelf in the photo to the left. It makes it easier and it looks better if you have mosaics or a liner that runs above the shelf. The key to it is that the shelf base is locked into the wall so it doesn’t go anywhere. You can cut them in wherever you want – just get it locked in there.

Also make sure that you put a shim of some sort in the very back corner of the shelf before you cut the tile around it – you need to have it sloped ever so slightly toward the shower and away from the wall – you need water to drain off of it. Don’t slope it so much that your rubber ducky slides off, though.

If you have any questions at all please don’t hesitate to ask me in the comments below. I answer them all, I’m just super-cool like that. 8)

Can I get out of this basement now?

Hello???

{ 166 comments… add one }

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  • Dave

    Sorry I reposted question before reading response thanks for the info, very enlightening. Bookmarked page for rest of shower process. . I have many man hours searching web for info. Niche idea was not working based on space, multiple tile types and experience. If I was to install both pieces first cut, next course and install bullnose last, would it hide cuts on each end ?

    • Roger

      Hey Dave,

      Yes, that’s normally how I do it.

      Sorry for the delay, you were in the spam folder. You tryin’ to send me winning lotto numbers from Nigeria or something??? :D

  • Dave

    Question, why bottom piece only at first, and not putting both pieces in at same time? The niche idea wasn’t working. Thanks

    • Roger

      Hey Dave,

      You can do it either way. If you choose both pieces at the same time you need to cut a larger notch into the tiles on the wall around it. And you’ll need to cut a curve around the end of the bullnose or you’ll have a gap there. If you do the bottom piece first the notch isn’t as large and the bullnose will butt up to the wall tile.

  • Donna

    First off, my profuse, nay, slobbering thanks for such an informative and understandable website. I’m a pretty game DIYer and I’ve done lots of floor tiling successfully, but I’m now working on a shower surround in our new house with the Schluter Schlower Schlystem (anyone else catch themselves slurring after too much Schlutering?) I’m a tidge nervous.

    Actual question: Orange stuff is on the walls, tile is on the way. I have also ordered a matching corner shelf. Can you point me toward instructions as to how to tile that thing on without schlewing up the Kerdi? Will silicone still work to stick the back to the membrane?

    If there’s a way to avoid having to buy the Kerdifix I would prefer it as I am already into the Gods of Orange for over $500 and disinclined to add to it…

    Thank you so much.

    Donna

    • Roger

      Hi Donna,

      The shelf is locked into the field tile, no need for silicone, kerdi-fix or anything else. Tile up to where you want the shelf, set the shelf in the corner supported by the two corner tiles (with a bit of thinset on the back against the wall), then cut the two tiles on the next row around the shelf. This locks it into the corner.

      • Donna

        Thank you!!!!

  • Jo

    Sorry but I think we’re about to make a “dated” installation in a rental house shower area, but I am so “DONE” with this project I could scream.
    We have areas on both ends of the shower that were left tile free, down to the backerboard and tile cut out so that the old type of corner shower shelfs could be installed. I’ve looked at the back of these, on the back side, where it would mount directly to the wall, one side is glossed porcelain & on the other side are 2 open holes (about 3/4″ across).
    How do we mount these to the wall? Thinset? Silicone? Platypus spit? We dont actually put screws into the backerboard to help hold these things up , do we? We thought that sanding down the gloss down to the porcelain might be a good idea, but who knows?
    Here’s a website pic in case you’re in any doubt what these things look like.
    http://www.directile.com/ceramic-shower-corner-shower-shelf-biscuit
    Hey, look if I had more patience (& your talent) I would knock some stuff out and do one of your fabulous niches, but since its a rental house, I’m sure I’ll have vast opportunity to redo it somewhere down the line. Maybe by then I’ll care what the corner shower shelves look like. For now, I don’t.

    Thanks so much for your help. You’re Fabulous, Platypus!

    • Roger

      Hey Jo,

      If you don’t have tile installed in those areas yet the shelf sits on a row of tile and the row above it is cut around it to lock it in there. Thinset is filled into those holes and it will create a ‘lock’ into the thinset on the wall as it cures. If you already have tile, and since it is a rental, get some double sided tape, put two rows along each back side of the shelf, and stick it up there. Really. You’d be amazed at how well it sticks. You need to silicone it in real well to seal that, though. But it works just fine as long as it’s not used as a step ladder.

      Excellent obscure platypus references peppered throughout your question! :dance:

  • Casey

    Roger,

    I’ve got my backerboard in and I’m ready to start taping and mudding. I got the message loud and clear that I need silicone at plane transitions and tape and mud at in-plane seams. So, what do I do if there is a glass block window in my brick wall with framing around it for a ledge? The change in plane from the wall to the ledge is technically a change in plane but it is still the same wall. So do I tape or silicone? Also, if the answer is tape, is it difficult to work with that tape on an edge? Help! Oh and thanks.

    • Roger

      Hey Casey,

      Silicone in all inside changes of plane – not outside corners. (I don’t think I’ve specified that anywhere – so you didn’t miss anything) Any window or block framing should be taped and mudded. It’s not that difficult to work the tape around the edge – it folds and stays fairly well.

  • Mike Gerst

    Background – I’ve set my share of tile in my home and others, a little comercially, a few traditional showers in the way back past. Now I am placing a shower in MY basement, and I need to maintain as much headroom as possible (inspectors here suck,er, are VERY thorough – they carry a code book, tape measure, and level, and use them…). As it is planned, I will barely meet code on height – and this includes using schluter instead of a traditional deck mud shower pan. I tried to argue that I am only 5′ 6″, why do I need 6’8″, but I lost that one.

    Three questions for you.

    1 – would you recommend backerboard under schluter, or drywall? I’ve never used the schluter before.

    2 – I plan on using concrete brick for shower curb – good idea or bad idea with schluter?

    3 – As this is in the basement, we are setting on concrete. In order to establish the preslope, I was going to put down a thin slurry of thinset on the concrete, and before it dries, get the deck mud down, thus effectively bonding the slope to the slab, mainly because in some areas the deckmud will only be 1/2″ thick – good idea or bad idea? Do you think it will fail? I’ve read on john bridge and such of installers using thinset and deck mud to level floors, and going as thin as 3/8″, but I didn’t see any of it in a shower, nor did I hear of it’s longevity.

    • Roger

      Hey Mike,

      1. Either one will work, backerboard is a better option but more difficult to work with. Drywall is absolutely unforgiving of any pinholes – at all.

      2. Good idea. You don’t want wood on concrete – it will absorb moisture from the concrete and swell.

      3. A bonded mud deck is the way to go with a thinner deck. 1/2″ is pushing it and, although it’s been done by myself and a couple others with YEARS OF EXPERIENCE and thorough knowledge of how concrete and deck mud works, 3/8″ is not something you should do. Provided you bond it as described and pack it very well (beat the shit out of it :D ) 1/2″ will last just fine.

      • Mike Gerst

        Beat it…. Should I beat it like my son after he wrecks the car, or beat it like the guy that ran him off the road >:) Just joking… sorta.

        Anyway, I was also gonna go a little heavy on the deck mud, mix it about 3:1 instead of 5:1 to get a bit more bond going on. Again, good or bad (and here I said I only had 3 questions – guess I owe you a beer or two if I get out that way.)

        • Roger

          The compression ratio of 5:1 deck mud is over 950psi – it’s plenty strong enough to handle nearly anything you’ll do to it. Mixing it at a lower ratio lowers the ability of the deck mud to compensate for normal movement and may actually cause problems. I’d stick with the 5:1.

          Beat it like the last politician you spoke with. :D

      • Brian

        Hi Roger,

        Hope it’s ok to jump on someone else’s thread. Re Kerdi and pinholes, how do you recommend installing handheld shower brackets and the like which would have you drill into the substrate and install anchors? Thanks.

        • Roger

          Hey Brian,

          Drill your hole for the fastener then fill it with kerdi-fix or silicone. Insert your screw into it and tighten it down. The kerdi-fix or silicone will seal the penetration as you screw in the fastener.

  • Tina

    Hi Roger,
    I’m putting a window in the shower. I’m going the traditional method. I’ll line with plastic over the window waterproof paper. So cement board for the framing of the window? Would I just thin-set for the corners aroound the window ? :eek:
    Thanks ,
    Tina :dance:

    • Roger

      Hi Tina,

      Not too sure what you’re asking me here. Wrap your waterproofing into the window frame, use silicone to attach the seam where it meets the actual window, then attach backer as your substrate to the inside frame of the window. Before you install your screws for the backer in any horizontal areas (the sill) place a dot of silicone and drive the screw through the middle of it. This seals the penetration as you drive the screw.

      Use silicone once again to seal all corners and changes of plane inside the window frame, then just use thinset to install the tile to the backerboard.

      Did that answer it? :D

  • Debbie Hogan

    Hey Mr. Floor Elf –
    Wonderful website! I am in the mid-phase (haven’t purchased anything yet) of planning a much needed shower makeover (shower was built in 1981) and has held up good till now……but it is definitely time!!!
    I have found some “looks like slate” porcelain tiles that has very good customer reviews. (Lowes – Sedona Slate Cedar Glazed Porcelain). Shower is moderately large 66″ long / 37″ wide with a window (made out same ugly stuff as my current shower door – window size 56″ x 25 1/2″). Now to some questions (sorry this is long)……….1) does a certain size tile work best for ceiling or any size? 2) Several people mentioned using black grout w/ this specifc tile and a few said they used browns…..in your vast experience w/ slate what color grout would you recommed (i do prefer the darker colors) 3) what would you recommend to replace the window shower space (it is just a window facing into the bathroom – not outside). I have a rustic personality house and redid a 1/2 bath last year w/ some slate and it looks great……but this project w/ the shower is a lot bigger….but looking forward to jumping in w/ both feet or should that be both trowels?……….:)
    Thanks for any suggestions or expertise you can give!

    Debbie

    • Roger

      Hi Debbie,

      1. Any size will work fine. One square foot of the porcelain weighs the same whether it’s 36 2″ x 2″ mosaics or 1/4 of a 2 foot by 2 foot tile. Weighs the same – KnowWhatIMean?

      2. Most real slate looks best with black or a very dark green (the black may end up looking dark blue in some light).

      3. Your local glass shop should have shower glass with different etched designs – find one you like. They look very cool in showers. Or glass block. Or a waterjet stainless steel panel. Or a plant. Or, you know, whatever you like. :D

      • Debbie Hogan

        Thanks for the suggestions! One more question going back to the ceiling shower…….what size do YOU think looks best aesthetically? (I am a PE teacher – so that’s a pretty high dollar word for me! :) I am planning on putting 12×12’s on the wall……….and either 6×6’s on the floor OR possibly river rock tile sheets on the floor? What are your thoughts on those? And once again THANKS for you help! It is great to get a professional opinion to help narrow down decisions on such a pricey project.

        • Roger

          Hi Debbie,

          I prefer the same size tile that’s on the wall. I also HATE river rock unless it’s the ones with the flat surface. The round ones suck. (Personal opinion :D ). 6×6’s or even 2×2 on the shower floor would be better.

          Hey – you make kids climb that rope? :D Well done!

  • Jason

    Hey Roger,

    I got another question for ya:) I am about to install my shelves now and wanted to just double check something. When you cut out notches in the surrounding tile that will wrap around your shelf, do you also account for space for grout lines in your measurements? Or do you cut the notches out to fit EXACTLY around the shelves? I’m assuming you don’t incorporate measurements for grout lines so the shelves have direct support from the surrounding tiles (I believe it is called a butt joint), but I could be wrong. I’m using 3/16 inch spacers for grout by the way. Thanks a bunch for your time, it really has helped me a lot:)

    • Roger

      Hey Jason,

      I cut them to fit right around the shelf with no grout lines. I’ll cut the back of the notches (where it fits into the corner) about 1/16″ more just so I can slope the shelf a bit, but I do not incorporate grout lines into the measurements.

  • Jason

    Hey Roger, still loving the site! You are definitely one of the best on the internet from what I have read so far. I have two questions about these self-made shelves. I am definitely going to put some in my shower surround, but I got a little carried away while tiling the surround and forgot to plan the shelf. Now after the thinset has dried I realized I should have cut a notch into the corner tiles I put on the wall so the shelves could sit on it. The reason being is the next level up will be my liner and that’s where I originally wanted the shelf. So now I’m stuck with 3 options. One, remove the 2 corner tiles with a hammer and chisel, cut the notches in them with my wet saw and re-tile, and then put the shelf in. Two, try to cut notches in the corner tiles while they are still on the cement board with a diamond disc on my dremel and then chip away the cut out nothces with a chisel, then install the shelves. Three, just put in my liner and then put the shelves directly above the liner (I believe it is also called a listello) so the shelves rest on the liner instead of full tiles. I like option 3 the best since it involves no removal or extra work but it seems like people generally don’t put shelves directly above liners. I’m not a fan of removing tiles since I’ve never had to do that and thus I am apprehensive about it, and I don’t want to damage my cement board nor do I really feel like wasting tiles since they will most likely break during removal. My question is, what option would you pick out of the three options? And is the third option considered acceptable, to allow the shelves to rest on a liner that is made of individual squares of porcelain (has a netted backing to make the installation easier so they are just installed in sheets rather than individual small tiles)?

    My second question regarding shelves, is I have heard some people just cut a very small triangle (about 1 inch sides) out the very back corner of the shelf so water can drain through there instead of sloping the shelf. Are there any drawbacks in the tile world to this method of drainage in terms of function or the cosmetic acceptance of the cut out triangle?

    Thanks, sorry for long questions:) Love the site!

    • Roger

      Hey Jason,

      You can put the shelf wherever you want. While it is ‘standard’ to have them at certain heights, that’s simply basic accepted practice. It can go wherever you want – no reason not to put it there at all. Of the other two options removing the tile would be the easiest – and if they were installed correctly then no – they will not come out in one piece. :D

      You can also leave the little triangle out of the back if you want. Nothing wrong with that – I just don’t personally like the way it looks, so I don’t do it.

      • Jason

        Hey thanks Roger. I guess I will go the easy route then and just install the shelves right above my liner. Although it probably would have looked a tad better directly below my liner, I am leaning away from doing the extra work to remove the tiles. Thanks for the information, this site is truly wonderful:)

  • Darrell

    Thanks for all of the great information. I’m wanting to put a foot rest in the corner of my shower for my wife to use when she shaves her legs. Will one of these shelves work for that, or is there a more heavy duty solution? Where do they get these benches that on in the corner of a shower, and are locked in the same way as one of these shelves. I’m talking about the ones that look like stone, not the metal ones that you tile.
    Thanks,
    Darrell

    • Roger

      Hey Darrell,

      Yes, that will work for a shaving shelf as well. I have also built ‘mini niches’ for that as well. The stone shelves are available through Florida tile, although home depot or lowes may have a few available – I never looked.

  • Ed

    Roger, awesone site.  I have oatey PVC liner done, hardibacker on walls draped over liner for my corner shower (2 walls), 3 stacked 2×4’s for curb and I plan to use Redguard over backer B 4 tile.  I’m going to install a CMU corner seat (2 stacked) at a 45deg. at corner.  I see they recommend setting on drypack directly on top PVC liner.

    Question: Should I Redguard walls 1st, then install CMU bench against wall?  I feel like I should install bench 1st, then install Redgaurd over the whole thing, walls and bench at same time.  I know it may not matter cause any water in bench will find way down to liner anyway which has pre-pitch.

    Oh, would you recomend 1×1 or 2×2 travertine for shower floor tile?
    Thanks!

    • Roger

      Hey Ed,

      You can do it either way. I prefer to build it and redgard over the face of everything – it’s more efficient. You do need to redgard the walls behind the bench all the way to the floor if you choose to do this, however. Water can wick up through the mud deck and back behind that bench with that method. You want to make sure that if that happens the walls are waterproofed.

      I prefer 2×2 mosaics for the shower floor, although either works just fine. Purely a personal choice on that matter.

  • hilda

    our corner shelf is heavier than the one you show it is 8 1/2 x 8 1/2 x 2 3/4
    would the epoxy alone work if we glue it to existing tile or do we take tile off and glue to
    cement board.
    thank you

    • Roger

      Hi Hilda,

      No need to take tile off. I would scrape out the grout lines (if you’ve already grouted) behind where you are installing the shelf and fill them with epoxy as you install it. This will anchor the epoxy into the installation itself rather than just on the face of the tile. If you do that it will hold just fine.

  • judyh

    I have a question. My tile man did a corner shelf except he only used one layer of tile so not it really looks cheap! I can see the underside of the tile. What do I do to make it look more finished? I’ve already paid him, so I’m stuck with coming up with a way to finish it out myself. I’ve laid tile before, so at least I have some experience.

    • Roger

      Hi Judy,

      If you can cut another piece exactly the same size you can flip it upside down and epoxy it to the bottom so at least it looks finished. Maybe a piece of pencil rail or finish edge on the front?

      • judyh

        Thanks, Roger. I already had the pencil rail in mind, but wasn’t sure exactly how to go about adding the other piece of tile. Could I use the thinset to attach the other piece of tile or is epoxy the best way? When you say epoxy, is there a brand just for tile? What do I use to attach the pencil rail? Thanks, Judy

        • Roger

          I would not use thinset, it may not last long-term given that application. Epoxy is definitely the way to go. Laticrete makes a tile-specific epoxy. Just google ‘Laticrete 310 epoxy’. It is available in smaller units as well – you don’t have to buy the five gallon buckets. :D Epoxy would be best for the pencil rail as well.

  • Stephen

    Roger,
    First, thank you for taking the time to answer so many questions. Your site has been extremely helpful with my bathroom remodel. I am ready to tile my shower, but had a question on the corner shelves. Is there any reason I cannot use this procedure, but only cut the tiles in half instead of quarters? I was planning on enlarging the shelf by using a 12″ cut diagonal and then putting a thin piece of border tile across the front. I saw some boarder at HD that is about 3/4″ which I thought would look nice. So, will keeping the shelf so large make it structurally unsafe, and can I use normal thinset to put a piece of trim across the front after I have made my 2 layer shelf? Thank you.

    • Roger

      Hey Stephen,

      Absolutely you can make them larger. I normally cut them in quarters simply due to space limitations in smaller showers. Being fully supported on two sides in the corner makes it plenty sturdy enough for anything but a ladder. :D

  • Dave

    Great site…Perfect timimg for the shower I am doing in my boys room…It’s almost as if this site was designed with me in mind. I have found all my answers to my questions…Thanks buddy.

    • Roger

      Hey Dave,

      It was designed for you! You are actually the person I had in mind when I wrote all this stuff! :D

  • Chris H

    Hi Roger,

    You have been very helpful in the past. I have a new but related question on bullnose installation please.

    What is the preferred way to install bullnose on the wall along the floor in the bathroom?

    The tile is 13×13. The bullnose is 3X13. Wall is moisture resistant board (shower surround is durarock of course). I have the floor tile installed according to your directions. Now the bullnose has to go down and I am trying to make sure it goes on the wall correctly.

    I am not sure if I should use thinset to stick it on or just use construction adhesive?

    I am also assuming the grout lines of the floor and the bullnose should line up or is it advised to run them at a different pattern? The tiles on the floor are in the bond/brick pattern.

    Thank you.

    Chris H.

    • Roger

      Hey Chris,

      Just use thinset for the bullnose. It always looks best when it lines up, but it isn’t always possible. If you can do it – do it. :D

  • Chris H

    Greetings Oh Lord of the Tiles…

    I have a tub with a tile job using 13″ x 13″ tiles. The framing in the walls are ALL made of 3″ X 2″s (NOT 2″ X 4″). I am trying to figure out if I have enough space for a niche or if I need to use the corner tiles idea. Do you have an opinion on that? You have build more showers than I have.

    The floor I tiled is set up with a brick pattern (overlap is half a tile on each row alternating…) I think I need to have the floor grout lines line up with the tiles in the wall. Do you think it will be odd to have the same pattern on the wall as is on the floor (same brick pattern)?

    Thanks.

    Chris H.

    • Chris H

      In looking at the corner shelves…. In your description of setting up the corner shelves, can I play this back for you to make sure I have this right…. I also have a couple of fundamental questions…..

      Do you bury both the bottom tile and the top tiles into the wall or just the bottom tile (and then put the top tiles on top and grout the joints (except the joints change plane so would have to be caulked right?)

      The bottom tile is installed upside down and slanted so it will drain water out. Thinset is used to bond the top and bottom tiles together. Grout is used on the flat parts of the shelf in the joints between the bullnose tile on the edge and in the tile in the rear. Should the tiles be pushed together so there is no gap between them on the edge facing the shower or leave a gap that shows that they are two tiles?

      It sounds like you can either have the corner piece mounted flush with the top of the row of tiles and cut in on the top row (on the bottom of the tiles) OR you can cut into the bottom row (at the top) so that the clearances are ok. Which do you recommend? Do you make the cut deep enough for one tile or two (plus grout thickness)?

      Activity seems to go like this…..

      – Create the base for the corner tile by having both walls tiles done
      – Cut the tiles you are using for the shelf into quarters on the diagonal.
      – It sounds like you can either have the corner piece mounted flush with the top of the row of tiles and cut in on the top row (on the bottom of the tiles) OR you can cut into the bottom row (at the top) so that the clearances are ok. Which do you recommend?
      – Do you make the “cut deep enough for one tile or two? Install one tile upside down with a shim so it is tilted slightly down so the water drains out.
      – Load up the seams with thinset but leave room for grout. Let thinset harden.
      – Install bullnose on top of face of upside down tile (pressed down so no gap between two tiles top to bottom. Leave a space around the side edges for grouting/caulking.
      – Install rear section of tile behind bullnose leaving a space around the sides for grouting and/or caulking…… It would seem to me that the top and bottom tiles in the base should be buried in the wall both front sides and back and the top tile fits into it and covers the shelf where the shelf meets the wall…..

      Sorry for the detailed questions but you have the expertise and I only want to do this once (correctly) on this bath shower surround.

      Thanks.

      Chris H.

      • Roger

        Hey Chris,

        Your order of things is correct. I prefer to have the entire shelf, top and bottom, run all the way to the wall and cover the top of it with tile, so the wall tile overlaps or sets on top of the shelf edges. You can cut either the top or bottom tile. I prefer the top because it’s easier to have the shelf there, then hold up the wall tile next to the shelf to get an exact cut. Cutting the bottom tile takes practice to get the depth perfect. Place the two pieces of the shelf right against one another. The bottom of the tile will leave a natural grout line as it won’t set flush bottom to bottom, there is always more depth below the edge of the tile.

        Did I get them all? Or did I confuse you more? :D

        • Chris H

          I am thinking it would be easier for me to assemble the shelves ahead of time with the thinset and if I need to cut it for any reason I can trim both tiles at the same time. As a pro you don’t have the time but I can mix up a small patch of thinset and put the shelves together before I start cutting wall tiles… I can also put a small piece of cardboard into the space between to raise the edges for drainage.

          I am using the 13×13 tiles and a 1/4 inch grout line…

          So when I cut the upper tile to hold in the shelf, I need to have the cut be large enough to hold both tiles in and have space for “grout” on top and bottom; got it. In my case I will need the 1/4 inch all around. Do I actually use grout or caulk (since we are changing directions here..) to seal up the cracks around the shelves? The durarock underneath has been sealed with the Laticrete Watertight stuff so I am assuming we are trying to keep soap goop from running into the mastic/grout….

          Thanks again.

          Chris H.

          • Roger

            I would only leave about 1/16″ gap at the corners for those shelves. Any larger and you are creating a huge gap which must be sealed. And 1/4″ is a huge grout line – really. 3/16″ is the largest I’ve done, short of saltillo tile, and that is very large. 1/8″ is currently the norm around my area (that varies in different parts of the country). Either way I would rethink the 1/4″. Yes – preassemble the shelves, it’s much quicker. You angle the shelf to prevent water from sitting on the shelf – as well as running into the wall. And by ‘mastic’ you mean ‘thinset’ – right? :D

    • Roger

      Hey Chris,

      No reason not to. If it is really 3″ then it’s the same depth I make my niches anyway. 2×4’s are actually 3 1/2″ deep and I place a 1/2″ filler in the back of the niche, so mine are normally only 3″ deep anyway.

      As far as the floor – I do running bond (brick pattern) on walls all the time. So no – it won’t look funny at all. It actually looks very cool. If, however, you are only doing that to line up the tiles you don’t need to. The tile against the wall is only one row, it doesn’t have the pattern in it. Following the grout lines against the wall will leave you with a single row so you can do any pattern you want above that. KnowWhatIMean? I probably just confused everyone – nevermind. :D

      • Chris H

        Thank you for the information. The 2×3 are actually not dimensionally that size (smaller actually) so I have decided to do the corner shelves. It looks like the shelves are a lot less work and will be enough for the shower I am building. Is there a minimum height for a shelf you have found works?

        I am also thinking that it might be cool to have a pair of shelves near the top of the tub to ceiling “wall” so that some accents can be placed in the tub area… Do you think that would be weird (just another thing that will collect dust)?

        From an artistic point of view, how high would you install an accent row of smaller tiles on a shower wall? I have 13×13 tiles with 6×6 accents I am thinking of laying out in a diamond pattern (on their side with half tiles in between…)

        Side question.. Do you have an opinion on Laticrete WaterTight FloorNWall Waterproofing stuff? Lowes carries it (no redguard) and I have painted the durarock with it already. I am hoping that it will hold up ok…

        Thanks again.

        Chris H.

        • Roger

          Hey Chris,

          The perfect height for any shelf in the shower is exactly whatever the wife says it is. :D No real standard height – whatever is comfortable for you. I normally put the lower one at around 3′. Shelves at the top of the shower are done sometimes – usually for plants – really. They are usually 1 – 1 1/2 feet from the ceiling. The accent row is wherever it falls in the layout closest to eye level to look correct. The Laticrete floornwall is fine. It is nearly identical to hydroban or hydrobarrier (I can’t remember which) both of which are great Laticrete products.

  • Rusty

    If I use Hardie backerboard on the tub surround and paint it with Red Gard, then do I still need the weepholes you talked about? Or do I just need the weepholes if I use a plastic vapor barrier?
    Thanks so much for your site. Rusty

    • Roger

      Hey Rusty,

      You need the weep holes no matter which waterproofing method you use. The moisture that builds up between the tile and your barrier needs to have someplace to dissipate. It will not exit through the grout lines as quickly as it came in and you are constantly adding more to it every time you use the shower. In other words there will be more entering that area than exiting it – it needs to go someplace, weep holes make it go down the drain.

  • Dima

    Can you add more pictures please of the shelves you made. :-)

    • Roger

      Hi Dima,

      As soon as I make another one I’ll take some detailed pictures and put them up here for you. :D Just check back, I’m doing marble and travertine installations for the next month or so but I’ll try to get something up here for you.

      Besides – I told everyone my photography sucks. :D

      • Dima

        We like your photography, don`t be not over-modest… :-)

  • Brian

    Hey Roger,

    I want to install a soap dish & 2 corner shelves in my tiled shower. The tile company I bought them from said I could use a silicone caulk, (which I also bought from them) to “stick” them to the wall. I did what they said for the soap dish by applying the caulk to the back of the dish & pressed it to the wall. I had a hard time keeping the thing from sliding around. I took the dish off the wall & wiped off some of the caulk thinking I put on too much & put it back on the wall. It didn’t seem as bad this time so I also taped it to the wall for support & left it there for 24hrs. When I came back to it to trim off some of the excess caulk that oozed out, which wasn’t much, the damn thing slid on me. Is there a better product I could use that would hold it to the wall better? I was thinking of trying Loctite’s PL Premium construction adhesive. Any thoughts other than cutting into the wall to mount them, which I got a feeling your going to tell me to do anyway? :-?

    • Roger

      Hey Brian,

      Cut into the wall to mount them. :D If you don’t wanna do that (I completely understand) you can use epoxy. Laticrete makes Latapoxy 310 – you can damn near glue gasoline to water with that stuff, it holds everything.

      Here’s something else, as long as you never, ever tell anyone I told you this. Before I became so anal reten.. *ahem*, attentive to detail, back in the day, I worked for a tile contractor who had some, shall we say, questionable techniques? Anyway he would get some double-sided tape, the cushioned kind, and stick those shelves into the corners and silicone around them to ensure water couldn’t get to the tape. Now I can’t speak to the long-term durability of this particular method but I do know I worked with him for seven years and never once did he get a call about his shelves coming off the wall. I dunno, maybe that’s worth a shot.

  • Tom

    I’m back. It’s been a while and I’m still at it. I had a bunch of questions a few months back. I’m finding that it takes a long time to do anything yourself, tile included, when you have a 1 year old running around.

    I’m using ceramic tiles in a beige marble pattern and I’m tiling right over an old mosaic floor. I know you don’t recommend it but I’m doing it anyway. Initially I was going to leave the existing marble threshold and just hope that the new tile wouldn’t be higher than it (since it was higher than the old mosaic). I decided to replace it though when I realized the new tile probably would be higher with thinset under it and that white and gray marble didn’t go well with beige tile. I got a 5″x36″ single hollywood bevel botticino marble threshold and cut it down to 30″. It’s surprisingly hard to find 5″ thresholds; that’s the size of the one that was in there.

    The old threshold was 7/8″ thick and the new one is 3/4″. I’m going to need to shim it up at least 1/8″ to be where the old one was and possibly more. There was cement under the old threshold and it is in good shape so I was just going to thinset the new one to that cement.

    Questions: 1) What would you use to shim the threshold? I was thinking of using three or four strips of wood (like paint stirers) width-ways just to lift the threshold and then letting the thin set fill in between the strips (to support the threshold once cured) and a little on top of them so there is thisnet under the whole thing for adhesion. 2) How high do you think I should shim it if I want it and the tiles to be about level with each other? There’s no bevel on the side that will meet the tile since I just got a single bevel. 3) If I’m using a 1/4″x1/4″x1/4″ trowel about how thick will the thinset be under the tile. That plus the 1/4″ thickness of the tile will help me figure out how high the threshold needs to be shimmed. Thanks so much in advance!

    • Roger

      Hey Tom,

      Put the one-year old to work. :D

      I would put thinset beneath the entire threshold. You do not want wood under it. If water hits that wood it’s gonna swell, no way around that. If you need more than 1/4″ you can build it up in layers. Take your 1/4″ trowel and place a layer down – combed with the teeth so that when it cures you have little strips of cured thinset. Then when that cures go over it with the flat side of your trowel to fill it in. Once that cures you’ll have a 1/4″ build up of thinset. If you need more than that just do it again until you get the height you need.

      Your 1/4″ trowel will leave a 1/8″ layer of thinset beneath your tile.

  • Renea

    Okay, one more question (for now). I was noticing the design in the above shower with a row of tiles placed diagonally with cut triangles between. We had planned to do a row of those little tile pieces on a net, but they are so pricey. I’m assuming you just cut small tiles in half to do this one, right? Now we were thinking of using those smaller tiles for the shower, so would it look weird to use the same size tiles in the alternate pattern, or could the grout lines end up looking off? And is there a particularly nice or easy pattern for DIYers to try? Thanks again!

    • Roger

      Hey Renea,

      Those are actually smaller tiles of the same type. Take half of them and cut them in half corner-to-corner for the top and bottom pieces and full ones (of the smaller) for the center. You can also do that with the same size tiles – I do that a lot. It’s all the same tile but you have one row diagonally. ‘Looking weird’ is a very subjective matter. Whatever you think looks good – looks good. If you visit my professional site (stop laughing) you can see a LOT of pictures of different shower designs both on the gallery page and the blog. Here you go: Tile installation Fort Collins.

  • Renea

    Oooh, and I just remembered something else. We ripped up our floor and put down new plywood and cut out the hardibacker this weekend (by the way, was it just us, or does it not score and snap very easily? My dad broke the first piece and ended up cutting it with a ceramic blade–he’s a carpenter and is more at home with wood and saws than tiling materials) Anyway, we also ripped out the yucky plastic shower lining and they have cement board up 1/3 the wall, and drywall to the ceiling. Now I know we have to take out the drywall, but my question is if we can piece in the new cement board on the top and just leave the existing cement board on the bottom? I don’t know when the shower was done…it looked like crap and my guess was that it had been done over 20 years ago, but was cement board around then? Maybe it was done 10 years ago and they used old shower lining, I don’t know. But I was just wondering if that cement board would be okay or if we should rip it all out and start fresh. My dad doesn’t really want to mess with doing the whole wall (especially cutting the cement board around plumbing) since this isn’t his area of expertise, but we also want to do it right.

    • Roger

      Yes, backerboard is difficult to score and snap. Whether or not you leave the backer that is currently there is dependent upon your waterproofing method. If you are using a topical membrane like kerdi or redgard then it will probably be fine. If, however, you are using the traditional method you need to remove it to install your moisture barrier behind it. And yes, cement board has been around about 35 years or more.

      With all that said I would tear it all out – I’m an ass like that. My wife calls it anal retentive, I prefer ‘attentive to detail’. :D You can drill through cement board around the plumbing with a tile hole saw. You can also drill that hole and use a pair of pliers to ‘nip’ or pry out a small piece at a time to enlarge it. You can also score your line, flip the board over and score the line on the back as well, makes it much easier.

  • Renea

    Perhaps I’ll let you out of the basement after we finish the project and I’m sure your instructions were thorough enough :o) Thanks so much for the fast response and the pictures! I do have one question that shows what an obvious danger I am as a DIYer. What type of material should I use as a shim back there? I mean, obviously I can’t use piece of cardboard like I do under my wobbly bookcase (100 year old houses never have flat floors). So a sliver of cement board? A chip of one of the many tiles we are sure to ruin during practice? Are you ready to call the DIY police to confiscate our tools before we do damage? Well, at least I’m asking before I just guess and do something stupid.

    • Roger

      Sweet! I can go back to my couch, hurry up and get done, willya?

      You only need to use a shim under the back corner for about 24 hours, after that the thinset you packed behind the base will set up and hold it in place – so you can use cardboard if you want to. No diy police, I’m trying to run the ones that call themselves professionals long before worrying about someone messing up their own house – at least they haven’t lost thousands of dollars paying someone to take advantage of them.

      Just so you know – 10 year old homes don’t have flat floors either. :D